100% DI Failure with Nurburgring rentals
 

Every Toyobaru owner should read this post:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=158

This worries me a lot as a future owner of frs...
My close friend has the cricket issues and he only "babied" it so far...

I hope 14' frs, this issue gets fixed!

I am not taking mine past 5k rpm when it is under WOT.

We should Sticky this thread for all owners to be aware so Toyota can do something about this. I don't want to buy the car now knowing I will baby it for 5 years then maybe eventually tracking this car after the warranty period.

This car is not reliable when driven spiritedly.

I wouldn't go that far. I drive my spiritedly often. I'm not saying this isn't a problem, but the car is under warranty, so I'm not worried. I just need to make sure I make it happen before the 6 year/60k mile warranty is up :bonk::burnrubber:

My "crickets" died around 5k miles...

Don't the crickets only come around when you use gas with ethanol in it?
Unless I'm wrong and the cars are getting this even with ethanol free gas.

Damned toyota, and there pos ds4 system, should of just let subaru do the fuel injection. And we would have been making more power easier with only a small loss in mpg

lol, that's not really how it works.

I thought this issue was already looked into and possibly resolved with a on board computer patch?

No there was an obscure South African only TSB put together by a field engineer that was posted 4 months ago. It pointed to aggressive shifting being the cause and modifying the transient ignition retard tables (ECU Flash).

Obviously corporate Toyota isn't agreeing with this small division's assessment as there has been no TSB released anywhere else.

This is a major issue folks, probably affecting all of us (know one knows what condition their DI seals are in until they fail catastrophically.) In other words how many miles left on your seals is a huge wildcard right now.

But I look at a 100% failure rate with a rental co that simulates accelerated wear as a good indication that 30k-60k miles of city driving is all these are good for. We may start seeing massive failure rates in the next year.

If you hear popping/back firing pull over and call a tow truck, continuing to drive with blown seals will lead to a seized engine and a huge safety risk, people can get hurt.

Toyota is a good company, hopefully there will be action taken soon.

I still don't think this is a pervasive issue for us in normal (and even spirited) driving. From the few failures I've seen (out of all the cars actually on the road) this problem is almost non-existant for the most part. I mean we're talking an almost unmeasurable failure rate based strictly on statistics.

I'm not going to let this 'issue' ruin my enjoyment of the car and I'm still going to drive mine like I stole it. And it's under warranty if it turns out that I'm wrong.

BTW, if these people in Germany are so down on the cars and actually had a 100% failure rate, why are they still advertising them in their literature?

Its all about miles, that's what sucks about it. First symptoms many wouldn't even notice as there is no CEL.

We need a volunteer to pull there injectors, someone who drives spiritedly has over 25k miles and is confident nothing is wrong with the car. Inspect the seals, how are they holding up ? I'd do it but I only drive 7k per year. I'd be willing to pitch in $100 if we started a collection and it was well documented.

I love these cars but I would hate to see this issue ignored and see the problem escalate as the warranty expires. I would also hate to see someone hurt or killed from a seized engine on the highway.

The issue shouldn't be ignored due to small numbers, I doubt anyone has put 20k city miles on their car.

And weren't these just 2 cars in total?

Plus rental cars for the nurburgring aren't the best maintained.

Here we go again... The virtual engineerers have put a time frame on the demise of our engines based on some Internet posts. Lets all start the countdown so we know when the engines will self destruct.
Now it's even easier for us because we have the rental car accelerated wear formula to determine the mileage of the failures.
Maybe I'm being a bit harsh here... But all these ass-sumptions, are kind of worthless without knowing all the variables and conditions behind the failures. Info we don't have or only partially know about.
The parent companies of these cars have much at stake on the line. I can't see them letting an issue like this get out of control. For all we know.. Running changes have already been implemented and the problem resolved.
I will continue to use my car the way it was intended and use the warranty if the need arises. The sky isn't failing and I'm not going to worry about posts like this claiming epic failure ruin the experience..

If it is a 100% failure rate and a safety issue as the OP claims I would expect massive lawsuits and full engine recall.

OP, my advice is to sell your car ASAP and get something reliable lke a Camry.

If someone wants to pay a dealer to pull and inspect my DI and plugs, I'm all for it. 17k miles all street, double clutching not granny shifting of course >_^

Am I the only one who thinks a 100% fail rate is better for 86 owners than something like 5%, since toyota will ABSOLUTELY have to fix the issue?

I don't think 2 rental cars being skullfucked on the 'ring is representative of all 86's. They were probably filling them with 87 or something.

They just have two back out the shop, read the post again. It was their whole fleet of twins and they are being gotten rid of due to this issue.

I'm not saying the sky is falling just think people need to be aware of the issue, and Toyota needs to acknowledge it. Saying it only affects those who drive to redline and dismissing it is ridiculous.

How is this failure about mileage? If the car is used for extreme track duty, it will see conditions that would never be duplicated on the street. Like a rental race car would see.. These extreme conditions that caused the failure will never be introduced to the 95% of the cars out there that drive the streets or track occasionally. So mileage isnt going to affect anything if the paramaters that cause the failures are not attainable under more normal conditions. You somehow are assuming that damage is occurring all the time to the engine and at a certain mileage it will sieze up and we will all be killed in a firey ball of death. There obviously is an issue with the DI system under certain conditions. it seems most dont have an issue.. Many seem to be having fun at the track too with no issues. Just drive and enjoy the damn thing or buy something else that you wont have to worry about.. like a corolla maybe ..:confused0068:

how many in the fleet?
How many had problems?
I checked their website and the GT86 is still available for rent.
You are taking hearsay from another post and quoting it as fact.
Do you know for sure they are dropping these cars from the fleet based on one
employees passed on say so? Maybe another employee is saying they just ordered 30 more.. you are spreading doom and gloom like a farmer spreads manure..

There is a local guy here in MN with 25-27k miles that gets tracked regularly, and he has no issues what so ever except maybe a worn out clutch. I have driven the car too, and its smooth as silk.

20K here and nothing so far.


A rental car having car problems? You guys new to the car world...?

I have 10k on the clock 2k with supercharger. I mostly drive like a grandma. With a few wot here and there. Ill never track the car or do a 1-6 full throttle pull. If I pop my motor I will strip it to stock take it to dealer pray to have it fixed then trade the car in for a 370z or m3

I agree with your skepticism - my take; this is a potentially sensitive issue for the rental company (maybe they have a standing agreement with the manufacture?) and for them to start advertising their dislike or disappointment for Toyota on message forums they could be liable for defamation or any other legal infraction. The next best thing you'll get; hearsay. I give some credence to the OP because he mentions the rental car employee by name. Inquiring minds could also shoot an email to other Ring rental car agencies whom have the toyobaru in inventory and ask how their maintenance records look like.

Talking about manure spreading.. :slap: Race rental cars are very well maintained. You sign a liability form, of course, but no form will hold up to gross negligence. These cars get sold to the public after many miles and must pass TUV inspection with flying colors. To say these cars don't get maintained is like saying water isn't wet. Your ignorance let alone sheer lack of reading comprehension is awe inspiring, the fact that you two drive on public roads is more terrifying than the DI seal busting. :D (before either of you have a hernia - I KID I KID!)

Prove its not, pull your injectors and post pictures. No one I repeat no one has pulled a set off inectors without the problem. Its not a huge bit of inductive reasoning to conclude that O-rings are showing some degradation on all cars. I would love to be proved wrong, believe me.



So you are accusing the OPer of hearsay, classy. How about utilizing the forums as a means to help correct the issue before it leaves a lot more dissatisfied customers instead of pointing fingers and hiding in denial? Something constructive maybe ?

If someone pays to do it I'll give my car to a dealer for the research, I have another car I can drive in the meantime.

Speculation is one thing but $ or silence is better.

I am curious about the spark plug issue they are having. About a month ago I brought my car in for a check engine light. Under WOT Cylinder 4 was misfiring. The Toyota tech said that they switched the spark plug in cylinder 4 to cylinder 3 and that if the check engine light comes on for a misfire in cylinder 3 they will replace the spark plug. Since I have gotten the car back I haven't had any issues but I am still wondering if I am getting the full story.

Has anyone else had this issue?

I've got 32k+ on the car with 100ish miles of daily commuting and 2-3 2day AutoX events per month. I just SC'd my car. It seems to run great at this point. I'd like to check my injectors for signs of issues, but what am I looking for?

NM, a bit of searching seems to have found more info.

A bad plug is a bad plug, switching cylinders couldn't have done a thing. Take your car up a hard pull over 5k rpm in 3rd gear and report back.

You prove it. You are the one claiming its a problem, not me. You own a car, pull yours.

I'm accusing you of quoting other people's post as fact. You even quoted that they are dropping the 86 from their fleet based on reading another persons post. Yet the cars are still offered for rent. I am not questioning the OPs talk with the employee.. But that doesn't make it fact does it? You don't really know the facts.. Yet you are determined to spread the word.
I'm sure Toyota/Subaru will address the issue. They have a bit more experience at this than you I suspect. In the meantime.. I will continue to enjoy my car and get it fixed if it breaks.

Don't bother me with the truth, my mind's made up!

You are a perfect candidate to help the community. Study the manual, you need an o-ring tool which isn't expensive but hard to obtain right now with all the issues. Also parts are reported unobtainable for several months back-ordered since the issue is so widespread. So plan ahead.

Thanks

This is what you don't want (on the right):

http://bminor.smugmug.com/photos/i-f...-fxQfBHx-M.jpg

When I pulled the injectors/fuel rail/etc off for the Innovate SC install, none of my injectors looked like the one on the right. They all looked like the one on the left. :)

I doubt you pulled the direct injectors to install your supercharger.

My bad. Yeah those were the port injectors.

I don't think that's the right answer. Do you really want a replacement engine, or a car with a poor rep and resale value?

There are basically three scenarios with brand new engine design catastrophic failures:

1. The OEM takes care of the issue and fixes the root cause that arise whether it be <5% or 50%

2. The OEM covers the <5% under warranty waits a few MY's for a redesign, after warranty with the initial design the issue festers and presents itself in more and more cases as miles pile on. Word gets out and resale plummets

3. The enthusiasts of the community put their collective heads together and come up with a fix that the OEM can't due to economic, corp. politics, or regulatory reasons

4. The engine was well or over engineered to the point that it gets a reputation for being "bullet" proof which helps resale and in general success of the platform.


Threads here are littered with reports of blown engines first and second hand, and lets face it this forum is but a small percentage owners. This problem is not traceable to a certain build date or bad batch. It has been acknowledged by on small division of Toyota for months yet nothing has been done. Dealers can't get parts due to so many cases. At this point Toyota is choosing #2, we need start working on #3.

@regal we think good information will come from those who inspect their direct injectors even if they're not experiencing engine problems. There may be many people on the road to premature failures who do not yet realize it.

It never hurts to check, right? Everyone can learn from it.

From memory, I thought there was a thread here describing a running change in the DI system to address this last year, but couldn't find it. Anyone else remember this?

@DriftEm hey buddy i was at the sdrc last week just checking out the track and bump into Charlie and said that your car sounds like it was miss firing.. could you be have this DI issues ? hows your car running? i know you drive like you stole it:burnrubber::lol: