GT86/FSR/BRZ vs MR2 Spyder
 

I have to do this thread. And sorry for my bad english.

I'm torned between these two cars. Actually, i love them both. I would like to hear real life stories from MR2 owners (i know here is a few of them) about their cars and life with them. These two cars have similarities which interest me: real sports car-ness, agility, handling, decent performance, not-so-high-maintenance costs, good looking, RWD and so on... I think i can live with MR2 impracticality, cos it would be our second car. Or actually our summer car, we have here winters wich last over 4 months :slap: But still, GT86 is a 4 seater coupe so it would be better. We doesn't have kids. At the moment but in the future yes..

Biggest difference is price. GT86 cost here 40.000 euros and MR2 between 10 thousand to 15 thousand. To get GT86 (used one) i have to wait till summer 2014. Then i would have paid off one part of my mortage and saved enough money to have this car with small loan. On the other hand, i would get MR2 for summer '13 and without loan. :burnrubber:

So, is GT86/FS-R/BRZ that much better that i would like to pay that extra 15-20 thousand euros? I'm going to get both cars in loong test drive next summer. I hope that it helps me to decide. Worst case scenario is that i want both cars and i live with huge loans :sigh: I hope not :bellyroll:

Your's opinion?

Lasse

MR-S is my emergency back-up plan. With a Celica/Matrix XRS 2ZZ/6spd swap. And a hard top.

If it came factory with the 2ZZGE/6M combo, a hard top and didn't look so damn cute, I wouldn't be on this forum.

Mileage is good, handling is supposed to be superb.

The fact that I own a MR-Spyder with a hardtop is the reason why I am not howling at the moon over the FR-S and BRZ like most others on the forum. I was very interested in it (and still am) but with ther uncertainty of price and dealer gouging that is already becoming apparent I will be happy to keep the Spyder.

Light weight? Spyder is 2195LB FGT86 was shooting for 2500LB best guess seems to be that they will be around 2700 give or take.

RWD? Yep the Spyder has that plus it is mid engine.

Power? Spyder is 140HP FR-S/BRZ is 200HP. That is a loss for the Spyder but nothing a 2ZZ transplant will not solve

Rear seat? Spyder none. FR-S/BRZ yes but barely.

Cargo space? Well you can take a toothbrush in the Spyder. FR-S/BRZ win!

Handling and brakes? I have seen the FR-S/BRZ up close but no test drive yet so we will see. I will be shocked it it handles as good as the Spyder.

Price? I can buy two used Spyders in excellent condition with low miles (less than 30K) for the price of one FR-S.

All that being said, I still like the FR-S and might buy one if I did not already have my Toy. There is just no way I would commit to buying anything without even knowing what the final price is going to be.

Actually the FR-S/BRZ is a Mid-engine. It is a front mid-engine, but still a mid engine

True, but it's barely front mid-ship. The Miata's engine is mounted even further behind the front axle than the FR-S/BRZ, actually.

[QUOTE=Rampage;147228]

Cargo space? Well you can take a toothbrush in the Spyder. FR-S/BRZ win!

Handling and brakes? I have seen the FR-S/BRZ up close but no test drive yet so we will see. I will be shocked it it handles as good as the Spyder.

QUOTE]


Huh? MR2 handles that well? :confused0068:

Lack of cargo space is lil disturbin. Can you make a weekend trip with your wife?

Not really. Compare the engine bays (look at the front of the engine relative to the shock towers) of the FR-S to an S2000 and you will see what a real front mid-engine car is.

S2k the motor is completely behind the front wheels. FR-S, it still pokes out past them.

[QUOTE=Lasse;147262]Yeah the Spyder handles like a go kart. I am exaggerating about the lack of storage space (a little). You can put a couple soft overnight bags in the cubbies behind the seats and there is a small amount of storage on top of the spare tire in the front. Hauling anything except my butt is not a consideration for me when buying a sports car.

[QUOTE=Rampage;147312]Do you get more cargo space if you remove spare tire? Can you use that space? Space isn't my number one concern, but it would be nice if you can make weekend trip with wife :burnrubber:

While that's true, the center line of the FA is behind the axle and I believe the front of the block is too. The timing components, a/c, and others might be in front of the axle though.

Keep an eye on where the shock towers are in relation to the engine.

Compare:

FR-S

http://www.spannerhead.com/wp-conten...Engine_Bay.jpg

S2000

http://image.modified.com/f/15582572...e_Bay_View.jpg

Honda is a true FMR car. FR-S/BRZ is an FR car with low polar moment packaging.

the MR-2 isnt practical, and if you do have kids the 86 can tote them around, plus you have a NEW car over a used one and you wont have to worry about fixing anything 2 years after you buy it and when your kids turn 16 you'll have something to give them to drive


the MR-2 is amazing though especially with the 2zz-ge , being the 2zz-ge is more reliable than the 1zz-fe, more powerful and just as fuel efficient

i'm going to go ahead and say it: anyone who tries to compare a "FMR" car to a true MR car has never driven an MR. there's a DRASTIC difference between a 50/50 and 43/57 weight distribution (F/R). there's still a good solid 3 or 4 feet difference in engine placement between front and mid engine.

back to topic...

yes, MR2 spyders do handle that well. even with 140bhp they are TONS of fun; think miata levels of driving enjoyment. i'd love to have a spyder to add to my collection, but there's no way i could justify having that more than the FRS. however, in your situation it's a much more difficult decision to make. honestly can't say without a test drive, but it sounds to me like the GT86 would be the better choice for you. either way let us know what you end up with! :)

Ummm..

They called it FR-S because the engine is in FRONT and it is RWD.

They called it MR-S because the engine is in MID and it is also a RWD


It's like Front RWD -Sport or something or Mid RWD - Sport


just my guess..

I was just being technical. Because most of the engine is behind the front axle it is technically a front mid engine, which is still a front engine. It is just pushed back for better weight balance.

[quote=Lasse;147262]Think of it this way.
MRS + 2ZZGE swap = poor man's lotus elise/exige.

I just sold my MR2 Spyder. Had a hardtop too.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1.../IMG_70151.jpg

975kg, driving position, MR engine. makes it feel like a go-cart!
Very fun car! :)
But mine got very expensive to run. Engine block. cat.converters (all of them!), several O2 sensors, VVT stuff, injectors, 2 brake calipers, some "bearings" inside the gearbox..etc.. yeah.. a lot of stuf. I probably got a lemon.
But I have been looking at lots of adds after i bought my car. I would estimate about/near 2/7 of the cars out there have had engine replacement due to oil consumption. In many cases that was a result of faulty cat. converters. And they are expensive and easily broken.
You need them in Norway and you probably need them in Finland.
People got that stuff on warranty earlier. No warranty now due to age..

Toyota have a good reputation for making good cars. But according to some statistics I read in a car magazine the MR2 spyder was the least reliable of all the Toyotas.
I owned my car for 1 year and 2 months. The expenses on the car was about twice of my 3 previous cars combined. And two of them were older BMWs that I owned for several years combined (they were pretty cheap to run).

http://spyderchat.com/forums/showthr...es-(Post-Yours) Yeah, we can say some people have had problems. And this is only people on one forum having problems.
I would not like to own one of these cars driving around with catalytic converters. But it is important to say that the engine problems are not much know on the 03- models.
According to my dealership they did not know the catalytic converters could damage the engine block. Ten years later! They had replaced several engine blocks due to oval side walls and oil consumtion.
Thing is, when getting a replacement short block you can not be 100% sure to get a good one. When buying new cat. converters you should get the good 03- ones. But in my case they were not in great condition only after 6 months.
Needless to say. In one way, i miss my little go-car car. But I now sleep better at night.

For reliability I would recommend MX5 NB(FL) if your looking for a fun little car with about 140hk and low weight.

The Toybaru have torsen LSD stock. The earlier models MR2 models did not have LSD stock in Europe. It was available later tough.
One of the amazing things with the MR2 is that the diff felt like it an LSD. It spun two tires basically every time! I have never experienced a car with open diff that were so playful. I had great fun on twisty wet roads.
But its a short MR car. You have to know what you are doing. It is easy to powerdrift if you are on the edge of grip on a lower grip surface. But it is not the car you easily hold long drifts with compared a typical 140-200hk heavier BMW. You dont really have the power to it either. 138/140hk on 975kg should be fast. But it feels slower than you would think. It does not have much torque, and the engine only comes alive above 4000rpm. The VVT system is like a light version of Vtec.

Handling wise I liked it i alot. Great in the winter as well in my opinion. But not suited for a novice driver. Based on what I have seen on best motoring. Handlig wise the MX5 is more balanced. A friend of mine tough the MR2 was a bit nervous in the snow compared to typical FR cars. But that was only his first impression. He did not get to know the car like I did. But doing longer drifts is easier in most FR cars. And maybe I could admit it was a little nervous sometimes, but I did not mind.
After owning FR cars, one RR, I wanted to try an MR, and I wanted the go-cart feel, and I wanted some air. MX-5 were more common. Often more expensive since they are more well know and popular, and often with less power. (Atlest many 1,6l models in Norway) I considered the MR2 to be more special and more bang for the buck. The driving experience is very unique, and I wanted to experience that.
Cabin have some "squeaks and rattles" and it is noisy compared to a modern car or older premium car. Depending on taste, you could get tires of it.
Loved the steering feel. You felt connected to the road. You felt so much trough the wheel. I have a hard thinking todays modern electronic systems can match it. They usually feel more numb.
The car just went where you wanted it to go. It felt so nimble.
Driving position is very sporty compared to say, Cooper S.

To sum it it up. I had a "love/hate" relationship with my car. I loved it when it was working and "hated" it when it was broken.
Overall, I do not think it is a match for the FR-S/BRZ.

For the record. Im driving a 2010 Cooper S now. Will have that car till I get the GT86. The Cooper S is just so much more powerful, much more refined in terms of noises, and it has space (I needed that!) and still pretty fun.
I might not love it as much, but I do not hate it at all.. ;p

Crappy snapshot of both cars
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...op_small_1.jpg

The 2ZZ-GE/6 speed MR-S is the car that Toyota should have built. If they had, the car would have had a huge impact on the affordable sports car market. I love mine. With the FR-S/BRZ and the help of Subaru maybe, just maybe they have gotten it right this time

I agree!

I love the MRS even in stock form, but with a 2zz-ge its a complete beast even on the streets from stoplights....

Whimsical little history lesson/tribute to one of the FT86's ancestors:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljUf_Vw19uA"]Midship Runabout - a Tribute to the ZZW30 - YouTube[/ame]

Pffff, just have both!

(btw, 2zz spyder is just rape.... no other way to describe it)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...r/IMAG0075.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...r/IMAG0077.jpg

Nice video there Rampage.


Thanks for sharing the pictures!
What are your opinion about the handing and power in the cars compared to each other.
How does steering feel compare?

I will have both. I didn't go 2ZZ with my MR-S. I went Turbo and Meth injection. The FR-S will be a definite downgrade on all levels of performance for me due to my mods on the MR-S. But it will be my daily driver and will be slightly more practical while still being fun.

My MR-S will become a more dedicated project car now that I can leave it taken apart for lengthy periods of time. To compare the 2 is a little silly. Stock vs. Stock, the MR-S is lighter and better fuel economy. They are probably pretty evenly matched for performance. The FR-S is new though and has some nice new amenities in it that are missing from the MR-S.

Bottom line is (like was said previously by Genomaxter) just have both. :thumbup:

Also, I remember that video. Well done. The guy modeled the MR-S by hand in 3D. great job on it.

:word:

Don't get me wrong, I'd still be oogling over the BRZ...:wub:

But with a 180bhp (2zz swap) Yamaha engine that screams right up to ~8350rpm, 6 speed manual, and hardtop, that'd be just perfect.

My brother just got a 2zz MRS. It's pretty fantastic.


- Andrew

I am selling my 3.5L 2GR swapped MRS for the BRZ I just picked up.

Wanted more room (kid seats, my bike, etc). I think with some added power the BRZ will be just as fun.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL3lm3mYr8g"]Marco's 2GR-FE 3.5L MR2 Spyder - 3 - YouTube[/ame]

I got new wheels shortly after this video...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALTdmf2yqqQ"]2GRFE 3.5L V6 MR2 Spyder Exhaust Revving Clip - YouTube[/ame]

A small turbo or super charger kit would definitely help the FR-S. And... If you are the first to go turbo, you could add a "T" to the name so it's "FRST" heh heh.

But seriously, with some more power (not much, but some), it might be able to provide similar excitement as my MR-S all while having some nicer creature comforts and the ability to put a car seat in the back so I don't have a 1-seater. hahaha. Time will tell though. Hopefully, there are no pre-cat issues with the FR-S. ;)

Seems like a lot of guys here are from Spyderchat. :thumbup:

for the MR-S

the MR means Midship Runabout

mr2
 

[quote=Rampage;147312]

I have an mr2 spyder and we have made several week long trips to the beach with it. you can fit 2 small duffle bags behind the seat and a small bag and misc items in with the spare tire area. all it takes is a little creative packing. as far as performance I love the way it drives you are low to the ground and it has a lot of pep for a smaller engine. Iwould change out the seats for some with more side support for cornering ( I always feel like I'm going to slide out of the seat on sharp turns) but it could use a little more power, and you cant beat the convertible top. We will be keeping ours until the frs comes out as a convertible so for right now we have both.

Yep. I can't really keep up with the flood of traffic and posts that this forum gets compared to SC. But there is a lot of good info on here if you weed through the noise. :)

To speak to frsnky's point, You can fit a good deal of luggage in the MR-S. But you do have to be very creative in your packing and where you put things. It can be done though.

Oh, and the name "MR-S" or "MR2 Spyder" ... Toyota used some marketing nonsense and said it stands for "Midship Runabout" as was mentioned. I actually think the MR2 came from Mid Engine Rear-wheel drive, 2-door (or 2 seat). but that's just me putting my 2 cents in. The "S" is for "Spyder" though, not for "Sport".

Once I get my FR-S, I will be looking forward to taking some long needed time to restore some luster to the Mister Two. Pics will come in the next few weeks or so. I'm told First week of July. But we'll see.

My son and I took my MR2 Spyder with a hardtop down to Mid Ohio to watch the Rolex Grand Am this past weekend. We managed to carry, a medium sized cooler, two folding chairs, a duffle bag, a bag of groceries with chips, sub buns, condiments, paper plates, etc and a folding 6 foot beach type tri-pod umbrella. Everything was stored out of sight except the beach umbrella which was in its slip case on the package shelf behind the seats. I do not have a soft top in the car and I am really surprised how much I could fit in there. It would be easy to carry enough luggage for a long weekend trip or maybe even a week if I could keep the wife's wardrobe necessities under control.

So my tooth brush comment was a huge exaggeration.

By the way, I met a FR-S driver at the track who is a member of this forum, saw a white BRZ with temporary tags and talked to a pretty blond Subaru rep at the tent they had set up in the midway with a WRB BRZ on display.