Bringing up the Torque?!
 

Apart from adding FI what exactly would make the torque raise?
I'm assuming bringing the piston ratio down to like a 9.5:1 would do the trick and raising the boost?

Crawford performance built a BRZ that give 400ho and 500lb tq!
These are the ONLY figures I've seen where the torque is higher than the HP figures.

so what components exactly are needed to make the torque figures be higher than the HP figures?

Bringing up the Torque?!
 

You answered your own question, BOOST. Apart from some form of forced induction, nitrous oxide or increasing displacement you won't see a drastic increase in torque figures. In fact some N/A mods actually decrease available low end torque. Crawford's has numbers like that due to a small quick spooling turbo, rumor has it that the car is pretty dead in the upper rpm range when compared to other turbo kits on the market.

I rephrased my question.
I'm looking for torque numbers higher than the HP numbers just like Crawford performance's car.

Why not ask Crawford yourself?

I searched for them here but couldn't find them and their emails I found on their websites don't work.

HP is related to RPM and Torque. The only way you'll have more Torque than HP is if you lose Torque after 5250 rpm.

If you want more Torque than HP, get a small, quick spooling turbo that'll give full boost down low and then start losing boost near redline ...

We have a 7500 rpm redline already and some people have bumped that up higher already on the stock valvetrain, there is no reason to seek more Torque than HP, that just means you're choking the car on the top end

And I really can't see a way of one of our engines making 500ft/lbs n/a.

Quick google search, right in their page...

http://www.crawfordperformance.com/contact-us/

Also,
@pheoxs beat me to it, great explanation!

those are exactly the links I click that don't work.
I can't call them as I'm outside the US for a few more days.

you mean like a GTI? I would take a GTI torque feel over one of a high reving-low-torque engine. There's simply more power everywhere for real life conditions.

Ok, I was referring to the phone number :thumbsup:

it has to do with the fact that they altered the compression ratio by changing the internal to withstand more boost. e.g. N/A cars that are high compression tend to lack in torque and have a fairly high RPM limit and low compression cars tend to be in the same HP/TQ figures and have lower rev limiters to achieve max power. My .02 hope it helps

Why though?

Why seek more torque with less HP when you can use a properly sized turbo and have the same amount of torque but hold boost to redline and get more power.

The 1.8T/2.0T power you are talking about is probably a flashed car that boosts to 20lbs down low then tapers off to ~12 by redline, all low end power and no top end. You know what they usually do for mods? Swap in a larger turbo (K04 etc) to make more power and hold their boost to redline.

Why you ask? Because there are people that dont mod
Cars to win races, simply to enjoy the feel of it. I had a 370z that felt slower
Than my completely stock Gti due to toqrque delivery.
I'll take a butt dyno over real dyno any day.

If it's axle-snapping, driveshaft shattering, clutch roasting torque that you want, there is no replacement for displacement.

6 liters and 500+ hp should satisfy your needs. ~$20k for a turn key install from Weapons Grade Performance.

http://imageshack.us/a/img839/1808/72055111.png

/thread

The problem is that whp is a measurement of torque x rpm, and because of that you can, and will, see cars that look absolutely amazing in terms of a peak hp number, but will be gutless in daily driving.

For simple peak horsepower comparisons, a big V8 with a huge lump of torque at 2000rpm can and will easily lose out to a small boosted four that makes all of it's torque past 7000rpm. Keep moving your actual torque production to the right of 5252rpm on a chart, and your bragging rights increase exponentially. Keep moving your actual torque production to the left of 5252rpm on a chart, and your daily driving pleasure will increase exponentially (YMMV, everybody has different preferences, etc).

Thanks for that reponse, that's exactly what I want, daily driving pleasure. I DO NOT care about wining any races or bragging rights. You really put in a great way. I would appreciate if you would tell me what needs to be done to achieve this in your experience.

My 1.8t never tappered to 12 when target boost was 20

Naturally aspirated, somehow move to a larger motor.

Forced Induction - rightsizing, really. Pick a system that comes in early. I can only speak for the turbo side, obviously, but it's a balancing act of a smaller hotside on the turbo vs. the compressor side sizing, plus overall efficiency of the system.

Simplifying it immensely, a turbocharger has a range of operation, say roughly around 5000rpm overall. So you are picking a turbocharger based on where you want to place that 5000rpm of performance. For instance, we chose a turbocharger setup that performs well between 2000~7000rpm, meaning it will start seeing positive boost at 2000 under full load (4th gear+) and will start tapering off after 7000rpm. Or you could choose to do it to start around 3000 and taper off after 8000. So on and so forth. It sounds like the Crawford setup, for instance, was designed around a spool starting at 1500 and ending fairly early (thus the lower whp than torque).

I understand what you mean, and its a tough decision since the whole point of this car is to keep it in high rev to wring out as much power as your can, and with predictable power, its easier to drift/corner without a turbo kicking in mid corner.

It reminds me of sports bikes, and down shifting at the right moment to keep that high rev so you can punch out of corners. It feels more alive during corners when keeping high rev as well.

I am afraid that any FI (twin screw included) will compromise the N/A response from the engine, and you will need to relearn how to drive this car entirely.

The purist side of me always ponder about people who want +300whp on this car, "why did you even purchase this car in the first place..?". Then the power junkie side of me says, "shit because it will be out of control fun! and it will sound cool".

So as a noob, I want to ask the pro's, will any FI compromise the response of the engine? (SC = leeching from pulley, TC = waiting for turbo spool). Or is it minimal?

It's one of those things you worry about until you finally drive the car with a turbo, then promptly forget about. Relearning how to drive the car effectively is a small price to pay for not getting passed by minivans in your sports car.

A Supercharger will often times mitigate that Turbo boost randomly kicking in. You'll get a much more smooth power induction.
SC leech from pulley is in my opinion an outdated and invalid argument. You'll never see the fact that it's pulley run decrease anything on the car.
The Vortech SC kicks in a bit later than a twin screw or any roots style because it will give you that higher RPM power that this car is built for.
This does give you a little bit of a boost lag like a turbo but not nearly as noticeable if at all.

SC leech from the pulley isn't outdated, as in, nothing has changed that fact over the years.

Here is a comparison of a turbo vs. a supercharger when they meet at the same boost at upper rpm's. Both on pump gas, full exhaust, tuned, etc.

http://www.avoturboworld.com/media/pulley_vs_turbo.jpg

With equal boost from both at 7200rpm, that difference you are seeing there is mostly pulley drag.

Sorry, depends if you have the K03 or K03s turbo stock. There was a few different 1.8t configurations

Oh ya I went big turbo. Twice lol now 3rd rebuild

Bring up the torque in an engine = bigger displacement , or Forced Air.

Sroker kit your engine or Swap in a v12 or Get a Turbo/SC system, with a tune, and proper supporting mods.

The most fun in daily driving = high torque at low RPM range.

A BT 1.8T will have gobs of lag and now power down low anymore so it's irrelevant in this discussion.

The OP wants torque delivery like a stock 1.8T or 2.0T, not a bunch of lag then an explosion of power above ~4k rpm.

For the OP, a twin screw supercharger is going to be your best bet for a big bump in torque across the rpm range since they build full boost at any RPM.

Again your opinion.

I'm not 100% sure if any cams are in development but wouldn't a cam be a good option to bring up the torque? I wonder how a cam would work with say Avo stage2?

Then you need to swap for a diesel engine. No one will ever do it but it's true.

If anything youd swap cams to gain more power up top. Same torque more power

I have multiple friends with BT 1.8T's, even the one with a built engine, standalone and GT2871RS doesn't make low end power like stock. It has better low down power than the guys with T3/T4's but it still doesn't spool at 2k rpm like stock does.

Post your dyno though, show much low end torque a BT 1.8T can make.

well your right about having no power at 2k. I just meant i didn't have any lag while racing. street or track. but ya on this dyno starting a 4th gear pull hell yea your gonna lag.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEWoEC_5W9s"]1.8T big turbo dyno 24psi stock block - YouTube[/ame]

And this whole thread is about making more torque down low, so how exactly does a BT 1.8T have any relevance?

The OP wants more torque than hp, which means all of the power is well below 5252 rpm.

I didn't bring up 1.8t in the first place

why wouldn't lowering compression ratio help with the torque?
I know high revving means less torque and high revving is the nature of high compression engines.

High revving doesn't mean no torque, but you need the engine to breathe properly at the target powerband RPM range. You could probably get more low end torque by changing cams, but you'll lose A LOT of power up top by doing that. Without physically different lobes like a VTEC engine (or VVTi-L) it's always going to be a compromise.

Reducing the C/R (and/or redline) will bring the HP and torque numbers closer together, but it won't be from increased torque, it'll be from decreased HP.

This engine makes more torque across the board than the 2.0 8v in my old Jetta, and that engine had similar hp/tq numbers (~120 of each).

Anyone willing to drastically sacrifice top end power for a bit more power down low should really re-think why they bought the car in the first place.