JD Powers quality survey
 

Wow, Scion took it on the chin because of the FRS... Last place! I think Subaru was around 26th,27th.

One must take large amounts of salt with JD Powers Initial Quality Surveys simply due to the definition of "problem" in these surveys. Ford looks bad but it is primarily due to the MyFord Touch system - whenever someone registers a complaint about not understanding how to use it, it's listed as a problem in the IQS. I'm sure part of the reason Porsche tops the IQS list is because every single item in a Porsche is an option, thus fewer things to complain about (love the cars, but should rear window wipers and bi-xenon headlights really be options on a $65k Cayman S?)

Sure, some FR-Ss and BRZs have had legitimate initial quality problems (idle dip, tail light condensation, BRZ GPS signal), but I doubt that's a significant portion of us owners. I'm also sure there are plenty of non-issues that would be considered problems.

In any case, if anyone's looking for the list you can find it here:
http://autos.jdpower.com/content/pre...lity-study.htm

I read it from USA today, will put a link to it when not on my iPad. Thanks for the link above.

USATODAY link
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...-ford/2437115/

Looks like the BRZ initial quality is in the basement...

http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Su...oupe/index.htm


http://autos.jdpower.com/research/Su...pe/ratings.htm

From a previous thread:

I don't really take the IQS seriously. C&D did an article a few years ago

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-study-feature

Cliff's notes from the article, JD Power equally counts 'people being annoyed with buttons on a radio' with 'people with blown engines' as 'problems'. No individual or company can see the details unless they're willing to pay JD Power some large sum of money.

Aka, the survey is nonsense and no one should pay attention to it.

Not good. I have to say, I hope this becomes an eye opener for Subaru and Scion. Within the last 15 months I have purchased three new cars. One from Hyundai, one from Honda, and one from Subaru. With both Hyundai and Honda I received numerous calls and emails from both the dealer and corporate on my experience, issues, concers, etc. Had the BRZ almost a month and nothing.. Nada.. They really should be getting feedback and taking it more seriously. I know the twins are selling well, but that will not continue if the cars are viewed as problematic and unreliable.

Seems like they deserved it. You can't expect people to be happy if they are getting "it's normal" answers to their issues instead of real fixes.

lol...fixed!!! :happyanim:

Which "issues"?

Come to think of it I believe JD Powers was one of the 3 surveys I filled out.

Wonder if it helped Subaru with having 2 different models to pick from. Maybe not as many complaints with the limited maybe. I know I didn't care for and my wife hated the quality of the interior on the FRS we tested, after that it was only the limited to check out.

I complained about several things when I filled out the JD Power survey.

I'm not going to lie...I did too. Overall I'm thrilled with the car, but when you break down each little area of the car, there are plenty of things to pick on. Do they affect my driving enjoyment? ..no. But they look bad on survey results. But I wanted to be honest in hopes that Subaru will improve them.

This was seen near JD power's office, reports of large quantities of salt.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__...lt_Vampire.jpg

This isn't all that surprising. Generally, any new car (because they're going to come with new car issues) will drop a company down. It has much more to do with who has released new cars and who has merely updated current production vehicles, than it does with the company's ability to produce a quality car.

Truly fixed. :D Also Chevrolet near the top of the list? :lol: It doesn't get anymore obvious than that. Must be nice having nefarious money that can be used to buy ratings. :thumbdown:

Quoted for truth.

JD Power Surveys don't mean squat. Look closely at the methods they employ and anyone with any technical inkling will understand that "issues" are not clearly defined.

On the other hand, I would like stats like "# of engine code alerts", "# of transmission failures" (with the word failure clearly defined - ie: a clunk going into reverse is not a failure but a gear shifter jumping out of a gear is), that would make my car buying a WHOLE lot more educated than this crap.

JD Power is THE standard, so nice try.

And if car makers want to make more complicated cars then they need to make sure they get it right. Plain and simple.

I don't dispute it's the standard... It's just really misleading the way they do it. If they called it something like a 'general satisfaction survey' rather than 'initial quality' it'd be okay. Quality implies to most folks: 'is this going to break? ' not 'is this intuitive?'. If they made the details available to a regular buyer for a nominal fee it could be really useful when shopping for new cars, but as far as I know they don't.

And I completely agree that manufacturers should do things right the first time or suffer consequences... I just don't like the way JD Power couches things then releases public facing awards without any real details.

Also, does anyone find is "odd" that American companies own large quantities of stock in Shucks and whatnot?

That is in all ways, the anti-Christ for a better society.

Just because it is the standard (which I agree it is) - it doesn't mean it's not wrong. If society continues with that logic, then: a) slavery is still ok b) women should not be allowed to vote or have any say c) my club is bigger than yours so I win this arguement.

See? Standards change (hopefully they always rise) and JD Power "Initial Quality" standard is a farce.

It also doesn't take into consideration that a person buying a Porsche versus your everyday Joe buying a Kia has different views of "problems" or "issues". Eg: the Porsche guy claims his seats are a little "off" versus the Kia man saying his seat bottom fell through are very different issues.

I like stats but stats can and often are skewed without transparency.

Eg: If I built 1000 engines last year (all the same identical) and only 1 was a lemon, I have a 0.1% failure rate. So the next year I build more engines, say 2000 engines but have 3 lemons - thus a 0.15% failure rate, my failure rate has now jumped FIFTY PERCENT!!! OMG! TERRIBLE! NEVER BUY ENGINES FROM THIS GUY AGAIN! Or you could also say my lemon yield TRIPLED!

This is why I always pause at numbers. Numbers demand scrutiny and the masses can be brainwashed. Those of us who do understand this need to be on guard for this smoke and mirrors act.

Frost, I am on your side, but if you equate car surveys to the anti-Christ, slavery, women's rights; No one in their right mind will take you seriously.

Your points about statistics are spot on, let them speak for themselves.

You know that Porsche suffers in this survey because people complain about brake dust on their wheels. The brake dust gets all over the wheels because Porsches come with high performance pads. So that's a dumb reason to get knocked on the survey.

It happens to all makers, in some way or another, because most consumers are stupid.

The initial quality of my BRZ is excellent, yay late '13 production!

Actually, it isn't too big of a stretch. Too many people nowadays get too comfortable with status quo. Nonetheless, we have society becoming too reliant on looking at the surface and no one wants to roll up their sleeves and get dirty. I see that in all the industries I visit (manufacturing, controls, building automation, etc.) and nobody asks "Why?" or "Wtf?" in a meaningful way.

Now I am ranting.

But to the post about Porsche owners complaining about brake dust - I know one! Gods I want to smack him when he utters that.

:bellyroll:

In 2005 they rated my 2005 Jeep Wrangler as being unreliable etc. etc. guess what's on the road and never had a major issue. Is it loud, yes most convertibles are, does it get bad mpg, yes it's a box with a tent attached, does it have limited storage, yes it's cut small to be nimble off-road...so some shitty soccer mom rates it low for all those reasons the ranking should suffer? For 2007 Jeep took the feedback to heart and made the wrangler wider and quieter, etc etc. to impress mommy, sales fell...the upcoming redesign is supposed to bring the Wrangler back to it's nimbler, more rugged history. Just goes to show whether you should listen to enthusiasts or bitchy cry babies.

These surveys are about as useless as the yahoo articles, "5 hottest cars of 2013" where one of the cars is the Honda Fit.

My 427 convertible does that too, but I didn't complain about it on the survey.

My BRZ has been perfect, from a QA perspective, but there were non-quality things I marked down on the Power survey.

Do they call it a quality survey anymore? Seems like "customer satisfaction" would be more apropos.

I completed the JD Power surver recently. For sure the consistently faulty headlight enclosures brought things way down. That is the one problem almost everyone had up to a certain production date. It is also the only problem I have had to date.

I think when my JD Power survey came I just mentioned the wind noise from the passenger window , nothing else.

The main thing Subaru/Scion should be embarrassed about is the chirping, 12mo since the car was released and they still don't really have a real fix. Hopefully they take the surveys seriously as they will affect buyers for the next model years.

I don't have the chirping (less than 1k miles). Have you tried using 92+ octane from a gas statin that uses no ethanol? Maybe I am just lucky, or perhaps it will start soon?

Yeah I was actually chirpless for 2500 mi and thinking I was luckily not affected then all of a sudden it started and hasn't gone away even when I run 92 octane ( which is the best around my area)

It's not that big a deal overall but it does sound annoying at idle and embarrassing when at a light and rolling down the windows when someone is asking you about how you like your BRZ... I tell em I love it meanwhile the birds are chirping away loudly making it sound like crap :D

Only time I heard the chrip was once after I filled up with citgo gas

ahhh who gives a shit. My FR-S is running fine and it has 25k miles on it already.

Just wait till e15 is in gas stations. Then there will be even lower scores for scion/. I'm sure MA,Cali etc will be the first to do it too

This is just an "initial" quality "survey". They don't do technical analysis of the vehicles, and a lot of it is just peoples' complaints and opinions. Wait 5 years and see how well each of those vehicles are holding up. Most people don't even know how to drive their vehicle properly, you really think they know how to determine the quality of it?

I have had no issues with my BRZ, except my driver's side window squeaks going up or down when there is water on it, and I won't be putting it down in the rain anyway.

I just gave them my thoughts both good and bad, to help them down the road. That is I assume the car will be around for many more years.

I'm not a big believer of mass surveys due to the fact that most people who take those surveys need a REAL life.

I just bought my FR-S last week and I do hear some rattles here and there but I'm ok with it, knowing that this car was made for the track and to be driven. All of my buddies with track cars have shake n bake interior rattles.

Most people that "complained" were probably ignorant about the car and wanted something luxurious like a G37. If you want a quiet car get a luxury car, if you want something sporty that is good for the tracks get a RWD manual coupe that weighs ONLY 2,700lbs.

Yep. It sucks, but it's a compromise I'm willing to live with for the stopping performance. It happens on some BMWs too.