Any thoughts on DSPs? are they worth the $?
 

Hey guys,
As some of you know (or might remember), I got a kenwood radio, (Here's the review ). and I'm not too pleased with it. Considering this car is not my daily driver I think I can live up with the kenwood's faults in terms of usability. But one thing I absolutely HATE about the radio is the EQ, only 3 band. Not too far from the stock radio EQ we get around these parts.

I listen to classical music, 80-90's music. I'm not a death metal enthusiast or a bass junkie. But I do like a good bass kick.

So I've been thinking on getting an amp, and a few speakers for the car.

Amp: is currently undecided, but a 5 channel one.

My speaker choices are:
Front: Kappa Perfect 6.1 Link to inifity website or the Kappa 60.9cs Link to website
Back: JBL GTO428 Link to JBL Site or the JBL GTO328 Link to JBL Site (not sure which size fits in the back)
Subwoofer: JL Audio CS110TG-TW3 Crutchfield website link

Some people have suggested I go for 3 way components up front and forget about the sub at the back. This is also something I'm taking in consideration.

The audio store guys were telling me to get a sound processor like the JBL MS-8 JBL Site, or a JBL MS-A1004 Link to JBL site or get a product from the Audiocontrol Brand.

The thing is, I don't see many people putting DSPs on their cars, but reviews on those items make them seem like they really do improve the experience.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

A dsp is the best money spent on car audio. That then deadner.

any thoughts on the particular JBL models I inquired? or any other suggestions on brands?

DSP can do a lot for how an audio system sounds. i used to install corporate board room AV systems and DSP programming for the more advanced multi-mic array systems can be daunting, but can make or break the entire system. If you are going to keep your head unit, DSP is the only way to make a genuine improvement. I have not used standalone car audio DSP, but I have used home receivers and car audio head units that employ the most important DSP processing elements, which are time alignment, self baseline EQ via calibrated microphone, user EQ, and user crossovers for each driver. Unless you're going with a high end audiophile head unit that has these features built-in, a standalone DSP should get it done.

Sub choice is fine if you want to stay compact.

inifinty has BS tweeters, Id get these http://www.jbl.com/estore/jbl/us/pro...larProductOnly best speakers under 600$ in my opinion.

I wont give input on the rear as dont think they should be used.

Ms8 sucks... if I were to run a dsp it would be a rf360.3 or a arc audio ps8 or a mosconi 6to8, zapco also has a nice DSP.

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Or sell the Kenwood and buy a pioneer p99rs

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The 99 is one hell of a head unit; unfortunately it was a bit out of my budget,. The 80prs was more affordable and had a few features I could definitely use that the 99 lacked (bluetooth, more USB, etc).

OP, if you're willing to drop the touch screen, the 80prs or p99rs would negate the need for a separate DSP as the head unit will do everything and sound fantastic.

As mentioned, best money spent is on a DSP, takes all the hassle out of tuning.

MS-8 are awful, had 2 die on me, never could get the tuning right.

Go for an Alpine PXA H800 with RUX controller or Audison Bit one

Another vote for the Audison BitOne or it's baby brother the Bit10. It really depends on how many channels you're trying to push actively.

Just looked up the Bit processors. There is a Bit10D. So does anyone know of a decent, more or less affordable H/U with a digital output?

The Alpine pxe-h660 is a "cheap" solution that works very good if you can learn it and spend the time tweaking it.

I have no issues with the quality I've gotten out of it with a PDX-V9.

It's not close to as configurable as the others listed in this thread, but it's more than most folks would need, and you can't beat the cost!

JVC, cant remember the damn model number tho. Thats the only one that is still in production that I know of. Older alpines do, but new ones dropped AI net.

Not anymore unfortunately. TOS/LINK never seemed to really catch on in car audio for reasons I've never quite understood. The Bit10D is really intended to be used with Audison's line of Voce amps. It has a digital output via RJ-45 into a special module for their amps, the Bit10 is basically the same device minus this functionality and with the controller module an optional accessory.

Knowing your budget and goals would be very helpful.

The big players in the DPS field right now are Audison, Rockford Fosgate, JBL, JL Audio, and to a very lesser extent Alpine. I've heard the Audison in person and it's a phenominal unit. I've also heard good things about the new generation of Rockfords 3sixty line. The JL Audio CleanSweep seems to very VERY hit or miss.

Mosconi 6to8 looks good too.

In all fairness the Cleansweep shouldn't really be in this list. If I remember correctly, it works by reading the output of the H/U while running a test cd and setting internal equalization so that its own outputs are a nice flat signal that can then be tweaked by your crossovers and amps without having to deal with the lousy factory equalization.
It doesn't have anywhere near the power of a good processor, it's more like a deluxe output converter.

The 360.3 is a nice unit. I have it in the wifes car, there are few things I like about it the bitone doenst have, but theres stuff the bitone has it doesnt... for the money tho Its a good piece.

only issue with that is for the price the interface is complete garbage. I wanted to get it instead of the 360... but was so terrible using the software it turned me off instantly.

I've heard this many times over especially the tuning part... no one I know has ever been able to get the stage width right or the centering dead on.

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Ya they are funky to do stuff with... with trial and error you can get them to sound great, but still have limited user adjustments. If you can find one used forl like 350 its a good deal, more than that..... pass

The two most commonly used processors in competitions around Europe. Says it all.

get this for the sub box instead. http://www.jlaudio.com/product/54216....1050512.0/BRZ

not worth the money when he can get the Integrity Concepts cheaper and its a nice piece.

JBL MS-8 works perfectly for me. If you use it properly with the right equipment, it will give you audiophile quality sound a hell of a lot quicker than a BitOne, 6to8, PS8 etc. I think a lot of amateurs just like having a myriad of bells and whistles to tool around with until it sounds good to them.
Also, the MS-8's method of post-set up EQ'ing is a hell of a lot more sophisticated than the 'nuts and bolts' DSPs and means that you're more likely to improve the sound by tweaking rather than constantly messing it up.
Of course, if you're a professional audio engineer with 20 years experience and very expensive test equipment, it's possible you can do a better job than the MS-8. Also, somebody that lives and breathes car audio and spends several hours per day tuning systems could possibly beat the MS-8....maybe.

Problem with the MS8 is T/A issues in cars with active 3 way fronts, for some reason it doesn't always process it correctly and you have to run it over and over just to get it close. While, the logic 7 portion for center control and using rears to widen the sound stage is cool, its just a pain with some cars.

I usually recommend it to someone with a factory center who is swapping radios, have them run that over the oem amp and it cleans stuff up nicely.

If you are contemplating setting up a processor, you might want to visit DIYMA and read this how-to thread. It sounds interesting.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...your-ears.html

this is so far from the truth... all the guys i know that use them have 20+ years in audio and tuning plus all the tools to ensure a proper tune like RTA,MLS etc... the algorithms of the system suck plain and simple and they all run high end drivers and amps. The PS8 will whip the piss out of an MS8

Guys whose services are made obsolete by a product don't like that product? Shocking.

I have installed and tuned over 300 dsps..25 or so were ms8s. There r advantages and disadvantages of it versus a more traditional unit. I will try to elaborate more when im back from vacation.

But two things for sure.

1. Ms8 never did or will. Replace an experienced tuner in a car. It was never meant to be that.

2. Experience still counts a lot when setting up the ms8. I would not call it a dsp for someone with zero knowledge. Rather someone with good and solid fundamentals in audio can achieve decent results in as little as 10 to 15 mins.

B

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I have an MS-8 as well. I haven't installed it yet in my FRS but had it in my previous car. A tC. It made a noticeable difference for my 3-way comps. For reference I've been tinkering with car audio for 25+ years; not professionally but have been in several competitions and worked closely with shops over the years. I'm considering opening my own shop when I finally retire from the AF.

What has been surprising is the positive comments here concerning the RF 360.3. After reading on DIYMA, I thought the consensus was "meh". I bought one for my upcoming build knowing full well the issues of the GUI. For the price, the features it provides are perfect. I just hope I can get a decent amount tuned on my own before calling in a friend of mine :D

BTW... I love your avatar choice. Big GiTS fan!

If you want to go old school I have a Rockford Symmetry EPX2 with the 28 band eq and the D-Card sitting in my closet.

:party0030:

DSPs...


Bit Ten or if you can afford it Bit ONE, nothing touches em really for the money IMO.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Arc Audio PS-8.

There r many good dsps out there that I consider equals. I personally am not a fan of the bit processors but u can acheive good results with them.

I wanna see what they come up w version 2s to compete with the newer products that have more tuning ability.

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I'm gonna come off like as ass but, its typical that people the "really like" the 6to8 dislike the bitone..... I think its bias honestly. Do you have any legitimate reason to not like the bitone?

I can understand why you feel that way, but rest assured i dont just develop a bias out of thin air :) Again, please remember i said its just MY OPINION that i dont prefer the bit products, i am not saying its a bad unit an others shouldnt like it and that many DSPs are equals with no clear winner.

I have installed quite a few bitones and helped tune many more...so my preference is based on those experiences.

as for the 6to8, i do like the unit, but it is not pefect either, there are quite a few elements that i like more that comes on the bitone than the 6to8, but my final conclusion is that overall for system tuning and install, i prefer units other than the bit processors.

as to my exact reasons, i dont think its my place to list those things publically on the forum, if you want i can PM you the full details.

but i will say the central point is that for me, i prefer to tune with a full parametric eq with infinitely adjustable center frequencies and fully adjustable Qs. I feel that have a lot more flexility with this set up than a graphic eq and can achieve my desired results a lot faster.

That is why i prefer processors with this feature over the ones with graphic EQs :)


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Wow, I never expected to have so many options in the market, perhaps I'll have to import one, since in Peru we seem to only get JBL stuff.

Any advice in "easy-ness" to setup and change config? the audio store will do the initial work, but I'm more concerned if I want to tweak it down the line.

Fair enough reasons and I understand, I think it is what we become most familiar with plays a role in what we prefer as well for sure.

I have an ms-8 plugged into the stock head unit and speakers. Sounds great. Easy to set up.

I'd love to hear the 6to8 but there's no dealers in the STL who carry their products.