Need some advice on driving 6MT
 

Alright, so it has been about a week since I bought my FR-S. This is my very first manual transmission car, and I am in the learning process. I think I've exhausted my resources on lessons (online), and would absolutely appreciate some advice from fellow FR-S drivers. Here it goes...

1) I'm having the most issues with slowing down and approaching/finishing a turn. Say I'm going 45mph, and need to slow down for a right-hand turn. What I've been doing is, from 5th, pushing in the clutch and apply the brakes and shifting into 2nd. Once I actually turn, I let the clutch out slowly and give some throttle to smooth out the turn. How do I downshift into 2nd and turn smoothly without having the clutch in DURING the turn? The way I'm currently doing it doesn't seem like the most efficient way. :iono:

2) I tend to ride the clutch a little when reversing to slowly back up. What's a more efficient way to reverse? Are the procedures different on an uphill driveway?

3) How do you go over speed bumps properly?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to hurt my car :(

learn how to rev match... and heel toe downshifting...

You are supposed to be in gear during the turn, not with the clutch in

You don't need to learn how to "rev match" or "heel toe". This is your first manual transmission, and it's a bit far-fetched/absurd to already be trying to rev match and heel-toe.

I've been teaching my 15yr old daughter (just turned 16), in her manual bug. She drives everywhere now, without any issues. We have hills every where we live, so it's a bit daunting at first. She has no idea what rev-matching or heel-toe is. So, don't worry about that quite yet.

For her, she learned to take a corner by slowing way down first (without downshifting). Just before the turn, you should be going plenty slow enough to downshift into 2nd. 2nd gear, around the majority of 90deg corners, is the gear you'll want to be in. I downshift occasionally, while other times...I just slow down enough until I can downshift to 2nd and make the corner. The key is to slow down enough, and downshift to 2nd before turning.

As for riding the clutch-
Depending on how slow you want to go...how much hill you have to climb...etc...you will be using your clutch a lot. If you ride dirt bikes, it should be very familiar with you. The clutch helps you control that power. It's the same when you're at a stop light with multiple vehicles in front of you. Slowly let the clutch out to help you inch forward a bit, push the clutch back in and brake to slow down.

For speedbumps, take these very very slow. Just like you do coming to a stop, slow way down. Use your clutch if you have to control the power again. You'll be very surprised how slow you can actually go and still let the clutch out in 2nd gear.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for some of this, but this is your first MT car. Just focus on using the clutch properly, making smooth shifts, etc... With my daughter, we went out driving every night while she had her permit for a good month. She picked up on it pretty quickly.

Best of luck.

I learned on my fr-s as well, but I picked it up pretty quick after a day or two. You don't want to go straight from 5th, ride the clutch, and shift to 2nd though. I would practice rev matching and downshifting. So in essence, you want to go from 5th, rev match, 4th, rev match, 3rd, rev match, 2nd, take the turn. You can pick up heel toe when you're comfortable rev matching.

Personally, I'm always on the clutch a little bit when going in reverse, mainly because I'm not going fast enough in reverse to fully let the clutch out.

As for speed bumps, it depends on how much of a bump it is. Some I can take in 2nd, but others I almost come to a stop, shift down to first and get myself over. Keep in mind you should NEVER downshift to 1st unless you're practically stopped. I think the gearbox locks you out of 1st if you're moving too quickly.

what he said (TemeCal).. gotta crawl before you walk.

Agree with this. You should be done with your shift before you start turning the wheel. Keep it simple and go straight from whatever gear to 2nd.

Thank you very much for your replies! :D

So once I'm moving slow enough and shift into 2nd just before the turn, what kind of clutch activity am I looking for?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

For taking 90 degree turns, I too clutch in and then let it out after the turn. When I put it in 2nd after the turn it can get jerky so I find 3rd is the smoothest as I seem to take corners pretty fast :P

If you're worried about being inefficient or wear on the throw out bearing, you could take the turn at whatever gear you're in, then just as you finish your turn shift to 2nd. I've done that a few times but still prefer clutch in during turn or heel toe to 3rd before the turn.

I know the correct way is to slow down enough to be in 2nd before the turn, but I personally don't want to slow down that much that someone might get real close to my rear. And also as before, I take corners a bit too fast for 2nd.

As for reversing, on level ground should only need the clutch. If there's a slope, there will be inevitable slippage as you balance the clutch and gas. The clutch is a consumable so don't worry too much wear from slipping at low speeds.

Speed bumps - clutch in while going over and shift to 2nd or slow down enough to be in 2nd before the bump.

I too am a first time MT driver so take my advice with a huge grain of salt.

+1000 to this!

Learn re-engagement after corner, with enough speed to cruise through corners for right now. There is plenty of room in that last statement for further instruction that is best done with an experienced co-driver, not forum boards, FWIW.

Don't sweat riding the clutch (as long as you are at full depress/disengagement and not riding on the clutch at the point where it just barely engages). There are not many clutches that are in need of just a new TO bearing. Listening to 20 years of Click-n-Clack have taught me that one is an old throwback driver's ed rule of thumb.

how the heck are you supposed to slide the rear if the clutch is in on the corner. 2nd gear and power down !@!#@!#@!#!@#!@ yEHEH!!!!


sorry, ignore me. I had beer.

I usually take turns in 3rd 2nd is too jerky even with a proper heal toe.. I find anything 15mph and above 3rd works fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When going very slow, like creeping into or backing out of a parking space, you have to ride the clutch. But since you are not applying much power at that point, it is really just a matter of controlled coasting.

Nothing says you have to down shift thru every gear. If you're planning to take a corner up ahead in 2nd there's nothing wrong with letting the car slow down with your engine braking and rev match into 4th and continue to slow down with engine braking and rev match into 2nd before making the corner. Heel and toe is something to worry about only if you're hot for racing. It's something I know how to do but I can't recall the last time I ever did it.

Wayyy to tedious to run down the gears like that for the 100-200 ft of braking before a turn, but it's not a bad idea for practicing heel-toe. Personally, I just stay in gear, clutch/slow down (either order), turn, shift to 2nd or 3rd depending on speed, and let off the clutch.

If you want to do rev matching: brake/clutch down to decelerate, shift into 2nd or 3rd, blip the throttle/accelerator pedal (heel toe), and let off the clutch while simultaneously braking, and turn. You don't have to go down the gears in order. Just make sure that you're speed (both RPM/engine speed and wheel speed) match or else you'll jerk the car/slip the clutch.

when we go make the turn, you don't need to break? just keep the foot in the clutch and start rev matching?

As you're approaching your cornering speed shift down to the gear you're going to use, and then when you're done braking, immediately reengage the clutch while blipping the throttle. You should be done with your braking so you don't need to heel toe. It shouldn't take more than a moment to reengage.

Go to Youtube and watch some racing or racing instruction videos - you should see the gear selection and clutching all done before going into the corner. It's not going to matter at normal street speeds, but it doesn't seem good form to engage a clutch in the middle of the corner, and freewheeling just means you're not ready to accelerate out of the corner.

The FRS was also my first stick shift car. I've had it for 4 months now and loving it!
With that being said.....
Would anyone mind giving me a better understanding of what rev match and heel toe downshifting is,?? Lol Thanks!

1) I would recommend just pushing the clutch in as you slow down, and stick it into the gear you need and slowly release the clutch (so that it doesn't jerk) before you turn so that you are in gear and don't have to worry about it in the turn. As you get better, you can practice rev matching which is good in those situations but that would be too stressful to learn from the start and you might screw up big time.

2) When reversing, I just take it super slow slipping the clutch and hardly use any throttle, if any. So reverse is mostly clutch action (easing in and out) and you have to be very gentle if you use throttle.

3) Slow down to a crawl, then accelerate slightly when going over them. This will minimize the chance of scrapping the front end. Don't brake as you cross over them.

Things I always tell people to keep in mind when learning to drive a manual:

- Only use first gear when stopped. Otherwise stay in second gear. In some cases you should use first if you're barely moving but most of the time 1st is just for setting off.

- Be suuuper gentle with the clutch and throttle. If you get too ancy with either, you will mess up. Also, there's no need to shift the shifter fast and hard. Some people shift so hard, you can hear it grind. Just be smooth and gentle with everything and it'll eventually feel more natural and you'll gain more speed while still being gentle on everything.

- Leave it in gear when cruising off throttle. Only take it out of gear when you need to (to prevent stalling). There is no advantage to taking it out of gear when moving and you'd be doing more harm than good.

And yeah, just give it time. It'll come to you. And it'll be much more fun and rewarding than an automatic. If you get good enough, you can even shift smoother than an automatic.

Rev match/heel and toe is when you slide the heel of your foot over to the throttle while braking to blip it up to the proper revs so that it goes into the lower gear more smoothly and quicker. If you are driving aggressively and downshift quickly without doing this, it will cause shock to the drivetrain and be rough on your clutch. It's a good thing to learn but can take quite a bit of practice to get it right.

Not sure if this has been stated, but I'll just throw my input. It maybe useful and I would like to advice myself =).

When approaching a right turn (green light right turn, not stop and go), no matter what gear you're I do the following:
1 - begin to decelerate
2 - while decelerating I watch the speed of the car clutch in and down shift to 3rd, then let the clutch bite, and slowly lift up (like i'm upshifting)
3 - still riding the brake, I watch the speed a bit more and the road, clutch in and down shift to 2nd, let the clutch bite and slowly lift up (just like upshifting)
4 - while in second, I should be in the beginning of my turn, I begin to step on my accelerator and speed into the turn
5 - as I exit the turn, I let go of the accelerator, clutch in, shift into 3rd, let the clutch bite, then slowly let out -- then I go on my merry way.

this is how I approach a turn. Stop Sign I kind of ride the clutch a bit in 2nd or in 1st, depending on the situation.

ah, lol guess I should have made it a little clearer, that was just for him to practice downshifting until he's comfortable. Once he gets that down he can just decelerate and go from 5th to 3rd or 2nd when you know where the shift points / rpms should be. :)

when turning without stopping, if you feel like your car is choking and ready to die step on the clutch. its all about clutch control. keep playing with it.

You should practice heel - toe shifting. It's a technique that takes practice, but you can practice your foot placement while sitting parked.

here's an article: http://initiald-video4fun.blogspot.c...ting-your.html

It's a more effective way of taking a corner and putting yourself in the right gear to smoothly enter and exit a corner in the power band


Watch a bunch of videos on youtube, and perhaps some Initial D stage 1 episodes to get the picture of what you're supposed to do.

The most important point is, whatever your speed, NEVER BRAKE over a sharp bump, be it a speed bump or the ubiquitous, decaying railroad crossings. GET YOUR FOOT OFF THE BRAKE! 'Cuz you can break expensive bits, otherwise. Let your suspension do its job, which it cannot do well when it's compressed under braking. This applies anywhere, anytime.

Brakes ON, fully OFF over any bump, then brakes ON as needed.

Apart from that, I brake as needed to reduce my speed to a gentle crawl before the speed bump, de-clutch, and roll quietly over the bump, and after my rear wheels have cleared it, I re-engage my clutch and motor onwards. I prefer to avoid sending that herky-jerky, lurching motion through my whole drivetrain.

After 50+ years of driving only a manual, I can't even put 'how' into words. It's like trying to describe how to breathe...

This whole post is a much better response to the OP's question than I would have ever expected.

You're telling a New manual driver to watch Initial D to get an idea of how to drive? It's like you want him to go out there and kill someone. Also, why do people always tell new drivers they need to learn how to heel-toe?! Terrible advice. Those new drivers then waste time researching and practicing stuff they will hardly ever need in real life daily driving.

Sounds simple, but it took me a long time to realize you can just hit the brake when in a gear (you don't have to downshift). Not that I didn't KNOW that, it just doesn't feel intuitive at first.

Slowing down into a corner - downshift before the corner and take the corner in the lower gear or just use the brake in the gear you're in. 5th to 2nd is a pretty big distance. Why not try 5th to 3rd? Won't be as hard on the transmission, won't be as jerky, and will still be low enough to accelerate smoothly out of the corner.

Reverse - riding is OK for short distances. If you have to back up a long way (like a long driveway), just fully engage reverse and use the brake lightly to regulate speed.

You have been driving a manual car for just over a week. Forget you have ever heard the phrases, "heel toe" and "rev matching" until you've mastered the basics. You don't go base-jumping before you learn to skydive and you don't learn to cliff dive before you learn to swim. Performance driving techniques are dangerous in the real world and even more so when attempted by an inexperienced driver.

That said, while I won't discount the efforts of people here to help you, (the ones that gave proper advice), the best advice is to get personalized instruction and stop trying to learn from people on the internet. I realize that this is a difficult concept for some younger people these days but you will learn faster, and be less likely to develop bad habits by having someone with you, in your car that is experienced and dedicated to teaching you.

If you're interested in performance driving, I would STRONGLY recommend you look up your local chapter of the SCCA and find a Street Survival Course, or High Performance Drivers' Education event. You will find "real" competitors there who's sole purpose is to provide instruction. The lessons you will get there will be far more valuable than anything you will ever read on the internet.

Best of luck to you.

Scott

Yeah, forgot to mention that. It took me about 6 months to just get used to my first manual transmission. Just take it slow until you have the basics down 100%. You'll know you're at that point when you don't even think about any of that stuff anymore...you just do it on instinct. Selecting gears becomes natural...you just sort of do it automatically based on what your eyes see ahead. I can't even remember the last time I have stopped to think "is this a second gear corner or a third gear corner?". After a while it all just becomes second nature. Once you get there, you can start to think about "heel toe" and "rev matching". Hell, I still haven't figured out heel-toe and I've been driving MT's for about 10 years now.

Yeah, me too, though only 47 years now. Experience on motorcycles helps with shifting too. My first car was a '62 MGA, and it mystifies me when people complain about the transmission in this car- although my '91 Sentra SER had a better one, this one's pretty good.

Sorry, a little off topic, but OP, you're going to need at least a couple of years to learn the fine art of manual shifting.

There is no reason to heel-toe shift in normal traffic on public roads.
If you want to learn how to heel-toe shift properly, do it on the track, and wait until driving a stick feels natural and comfortable in all traffic situations.
Stay safe and be gentle with your car.

This. It is like anything in life. You have to first master the basics before you start trying to do heel-toe and rev matching. Walk before you run..

How else are you going to let everyone know you're a race car driver? Kidding aside I walk down every gear for every turn, just habit.

100 percent agree with ppl who say forget heel toe and rev match, there is much greater chance to get yourself in trouble when you have so little experience driving mt. Stick with the basics and dont lug the engine, personally i think 5th gear is on thw edge of whats acceptable for 45mph, this car does best on fuel i find in between the 3000 and 5000 range. Gas is cheap for this car so dont worry about keeping the revs down to save gas cause its better to be in the right gear, having power and torque on the road incase of emergency manuvers than save a minor amount of fuel gambling your life and car.
Personally if i was going 45mph and i had to make a right turn, i would probably be in 4th from half a block away i would shift to 3rd and just let it coast to slow down applying brake as nesessary to keep space with the car in the front(if there is one) when the speed is 20-30 mph shift to 2nd should be close to the corner now and just drive through the corner. And like someone said if your braking keep the car in gear, when the revs drop below 2000 you should down shift this should work all the time during regular driving. Spending on gas and tires, seat time is the only way to learn and get better, after you learn the basics then you should try to rev match after that then learn heal toe. Trying to rev match and heel toe after a couple days of driving is really not a good idea. And always keep power on the ground meaning dont coast with the clutch depressed.

Sorry... didnt know heel toe and rev matching was so hard for the average human... took me a week to master it... then again my mustang had the perfect setup for heel toe downshifting...

I do rev matching everytime I drop a gear... but I always had the mentality of smooth shifting even when I started learning manual.

As far as more constructive advise... learn to get the car rolling by only using the clutch... it makes it natural to find the perfect engagement point of the clutch, makes taking speedbumps a breeze as you just let the engine's idle speed get you over the bump

This is my first manual car, I can't say I mastered heel-toe but I do it all the same in everyday driving. The pedal is setup perfectly for heel-toe

I wasn't aware that we had Ken Bock on the forums. Who knew?

Scott

No ken block... I've never drifted, but learning manual was almost second nature me.

That's great that you have some natural ability but saying you've "mastered" heel-toe in a week is like saying that you speak fluent Japanese just because you learned how to say "arigato".

Making statements like that is a complete misrepresentation of your skills and a will not earn you any points from people who know anything abut performance driving or racing. Those types of statements will end up with you being lumped into the same group of people that say their car has 300hp to the wheels because they installed an intake.

Scott