Sonoma Trackday Video (spinout included)
 

I had great weekend with my buddies at Sonoma this weekend. We did a 2 day event and I took the BRZ out for the first day.

Unfortunately, I did a 360 coming out of turn 6 on the 3rd lap of the first session. My best lap of the day was the 2nd lap of the first session. Only 2:07. I got spooked after the spinout. Too much carnage that day. A totalled Cayman S and after a car to car contact with a spinning F360. Multiple damaged cars that day. :-( I should have treated the stock tires with more respect and waited for the conditions to warm up before running hard. I'm used to NT01s getting sticky after only 1-2 laps. I will return again to try to conquer Sonoma with the BRZ later this fall.

If you listen to the video, you will hear a pop and hiss as I spin. I pulled into the hot pits after the spin and the car stalled. The car wouldn't idle and would stall out. If I kept the revs up, it would run just fine but you could hear a whistling sound. It turns out a PCV line blew off. Interestingly it wasn't clamped down or anything. I reattached the line, put in a ziptie, and the car was perfect again.

Here's the video:
[ame]http://youtu.be/P2zTAXFHjvc[/ame]



I'll share my video from the following day in my spyder as well. I was able to get 1:55:
[ame]http://youtu.be/Ss8sZeAKwaQ[/ame]

Nice spin! So did you spin from going too wide on turn 6 or was it from early throttle? I'm interested to see which hose popped off.

Looks like fun to me!

What software are you using for your vids and lap timing? Been thinking about getting a similar app... Any opinions?

LOL. Thanks. You know, I'm not really sure what caused the spin to tell you the truth. I think my line was fine, and if you watch the video I was already unwinding the steering wheel and was barely on the throttle when the spin occurred. I didn't pinch myself off and I wasn't goosing the throttle. I don't think it should have happened, but it did. The was the first session in the AM, so track conditions were cold and it was only the 3rd lap so the tires were cold too. I'd love to hear any opinions on what happened. Right now I just think I was driving the car too quickly for the cold condition and wasn't talented enough to stop the spin.

Here's a pic of the PCV line that blew off. Its behind the intake manifold near the firewall on the passenger side.

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2188/pcvo.jpg

I'm using the AiM solo as my datalogger, gopro cameras to grab video, and then doing the dataoverlay with trackvision software and post processing with adobe premier elements.

love your work on the video!

Your spinout reminded me of the one I had this past weekend at Sows (CW) @ Turn 10..

Wow nice! Strange spin.. you lost traction out of nowhere! What datalogging system do you use in the BRZ vid?

I had a similar spin at thunderhill. I was taking the bypass like I had been doing all day long, nothing new or different except if you look closely at the video, there was some sand that someone left for me from the last session. THat and the RS3's were not warm enough yet.

Thanks! Aim Solo DL.

I remember that video! ..:thumbup: I think these stock primacy HP tires can run pretty loose particularly if track conditions are cold. I'm used to NT01s warming up after only 2 laps. Notice I spun out on the 3rd lap. I incorrectly thought the tires would be ready. Lesson learned.

Time to upgrade tires soley for saafety reson

Ill second that did one track day well ok maybe 1&1/2 and quickly came to the conclusion that they are better suited for the prius :thumbdown:

Great driving orthojoe! Kinda odd spin though.

No! I will continue to resist for now! I have smmmurf and Pobst as my benchmark with these tires. These tires only show how much more I need to learn about car control still.

Thanks! Are you saying the spin occurring was odd, or that the actual spin was funny looking? :lol:

:lol: Of course it was funny looking :lol:

Beautiful video - thanks for sharing!

I think most of us in this sub forum have had the cold tires / cold track experience ;)

Mind if I armchair quarter back for a minute?

Caveat: I'm a track noob (about a dozen days under my belt), and I've had a beer. I'm just very curious and want to learn.

Looking at the two laps, the biggest differences I see:

Lap 1:
4th Gear @ ~4900rpm
71mph

Lap 2:
3rd Gear @ ~6800rpm
76mph

- Lines look similiar, and G's on the G-meter looks close.

My guess..you had your foot in it about the same amount, but were carrying additional speed (5mph) and putting down about 30% more horsepower because of the different gears (roughly the same throttle input). The turn dips into a slight bowel, giving you some traction circle leverage, but as the turn levels out, you cross a couple pavement creases that suddenly make it slightly off camber.

I'm guessing with the additional power on the tires, you were about max performing them, but that little bit of off-camber-ness destroyed your immediate correction and lifted the back around around you. Kind of a super quick perfect storm.

That, or the little tree at the corner is a jerk and it pissed on the course.

Any thoughts?

Nice editing... but um, I think we're gonna need to see that spin from at least another half dozen angles! :)

Thanks for the eval! I think what you say makes a lot of sense. I didn't think about the difference in gear position, but that totally makes sense. I was still trying to figure out the best way to drive the course, so I was trying different combinations for gearing. Smmmurf keeps it in 4th through that turn, but I'm not going through it as fast as him so I find the car lugging in 4th down the straight. I guess I need to learn how to go through turn 6 faster and keep it in 4th....

I'll have a talk with that tree about pissing on the course too...:D

LOL. I was lucky the driver of the M3 behind me came up to me afterwards and offered a copy of his video.

My question is has anyone else experienced the vacuum hose blowing off as well?

great video :thumbsup: when you going down weight will transfer more to the front and it's lot easier to get the the car upset .

The track does flatten out a tiny amount right as you sorta dip into the apex. That's easy to do on slippery tires.

Hope you were wearing dark colored underwear that day! Nothing wrong with a clean spin; just means you're finding the limits.

Thanks for the pic. Definitely adding a zip tie to that!

Use a hose clamp instead most zip ties are not capable of temps above 140 degrees and will either break or melt eventually. (Its a quick fix only)

Good point. I wonder why it didn't come with a clamp from the factory to begin with...?

There is not much vacuum on that line to worry about however from higher revs you are getting a lot more blowby in that tube. Heat unburned fuel and oil going into the intake manifold would heat and expand the hose more than normal. With the high gforce spin and big throttle lift you would get more vacuum than normal from the intake manifold which could have sucked off the tube from the PCV valve.

Or it was just lose from the factory. ;)

orthojoe

It's great fun to watch that video and learn from your slide. Thank you for posting this.

This video is very helpful to me for correcting oversteer, it's one of my favorites. Watch in slow motion how he releases grip of the steering wheel at the beginning of the slide. (3:08) A faster/easier way to catch/correct for a big oversteer moment. You know the rest of it.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT2wkhg6LTQ"]2013 Porsche Cayman S Thrashed - CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS - YouTube[/ame]


For slow motion
http://www.youtubeslow.com/index.php?v=wT2wkhg6LTQ

I drove a 2007 Cayman S on track and currently drive a 2009 Z06 on track. My new BRZ picked up Thursday will get to the track for the first time next week on the oem street tires.
What track pads are you using for your car?

Seems like these cars are temperamental about being spun around? I took mine to Roebling two weeks ago just to establish a baseline with no mods other than Motul 600. I did a 180 entering turn 1 and slid off into the infield grass. Car did not want to restart at first and when it did it would stall at idle. Had a cel and the SL light on. Looked for a vacuum leak but could not find one. Car would run fine other than at idle and the lights went out temporarily. After trailering back to Central Florida it ran fine from trailer to my garage but all the symptoms including the lights returned the next day. My code reader read P071 system too lean bank 1 and P0108 manifold absolute pressure / barometric pressure circuit high. The dealer replaced the intake manifold gasket under warranty and there have been no issues since.

PS. In my observation the car is much more prone to severe over steer in 3rd gear. I don't have the technical background to back that up, it's just an opinion. Mine occured with traction disabled no dance. It was just after a 5-4-3 downshift from 120 to 70 and I may not have synced the engine and wheel speed very well, creating a harsh clutch disengagement.

Thanks. Would love to hear your opinion on what happened what could have been done differently.

I'm using project mu club racer pads on the BRZ and PFC08 pads on the spyder. The Project mu pads are arguably overkill for stock tires, but they bite well and never fade.

Interesting. My car stalled at idle too, but plugging back in the vacuum line fixed the problem. You had a totally different issue.

I definitely over steered in 3rd gear. LOL

Was this with Trackmasters? I was at Laguna Seca yesterday and Doug mentioned a car spinning and the driver didn't go two feet in. Ended up rolling backwards into another car. This was at their last Sonoma event.

Yup. Thankfully that wasn't me. The incident he mentioned was between an F360 and a Cayman. Lots of carnage that day. :-(

My thoughts,....wasn't this car set up to oversteer by design for slow speed fun on skinny tires?...don't know where but I remember reading someone going bigger on front sway bar and actual removing rear sway bar to settle this car down to prevent snap oversteer when he was running stickier wider tires.......thoughts anyone?

Oh yeah. I'm not complaining about the oversteer. Not at all. The whole reason I got the car was to learn how to control oversteer. I obviously failed this time around...:bonk:

Expensive incident.

Your spin was a bit odd. I definitely think being in 3rd gear along with the cold tires contributed to the spin. As somebody else mentioned, there is a slight dip at the apex that helps the car take a set on exit. Once you feel the car set, you can get on the throttle and release the wheel.

But at speed and at the limit with skinny tires,...not sure your going to have time to correct....its going to happen very quickly......just my thoughts.....great video btw.

Does anyone think the spin was correctable in the right hands?

Thank you, I will try those pads.


The next time you are on the track you will be expecting this and waiting for the rear to step out in every turn, at any moment. When the rear steps out again you will correct instantly with slightly reduced throttle and will keep the yaw smaller.

If the yaw becomes to big, as it did here, or in the rain, you will release the steering wheel and let it spin through your hands to correct faster/easier with slightly reduced throttle and then recover.

This is what I tell myself, I hope it works.

So if you look at my throttle position, I believe it shows that as the rear started to step out, I let off slightly on the throttle, but when the yaw when out of control, I no longer had any throttle pressure.

Am I understanding you correctly that when the rear has stepped out too far, I should still keep light pressure on the throttle, discontinue actively countersteering, and release the wheel?

This is the discussion I was hoping for. Thanks!

I think you would have had a better chance stopping the spin by not lifting off the throttle when the back end started to step out. We learned that on the first day at Bondurant. You may have corrected a bit late, but its hard to tell from the video. After a ton of seat time, you'll be able to correct a bit sooner by the "feel" of the car about to oversteer.

So the reason I didn't keep some pressure on the throttle was that I felt the car was going past the point of the ability to correct. I was told that when you are in this type of situation, to let off the throttle, not continue to put on the pressure. Is this correct?

totally agree that more seat time is need to get a 'feel' for the car.

EDIT: so that might have sounded dumb. Yes, of course, if you are going into a full spin, you want 'both feet in' and you are off the throttle. What I'm trying to say is that letting off the throttle (while countersteering) when you are in an oversteer situation will tuck your back end back in quicker and get you under control sooner than keeping on the throttle, which will keep your momentum going in the right direction while still correcting....?