Blown Headgasket ?
 

On reason I bought this Scion because of Toyota's great overall long term reliable 4 cylinder engine track record.

After the honeymoon period it really sunk in that this is a Subaru engine, (I know the flat four should have tipped me off!) My only knowledge of subary H-4's were the early 90's and 80's engines that seemed bullet proof (a relative owns a 91 Subaru with 300k with no engine issues ever.)

I found this site below, which is just littered with horror stories of Subaru's track record with head gaskets on the N/A H4's they have designed over the last 15 years. Very scary stuff:

http://allwheeldriveauto.com/subaru-...ems-explained/

Sounds like the issue typically doesn't start showing up until 3-4 years or after the 60k warranty ends. The biggest issue is replacing them is a huge job, much more labor intensive than a typical Toyota I-4, talking removing the engine putting it on a stand to even get to the gaskets.


Have there been any reports of head gasket failures with this FA20 ?

Once again iv stated in this site multiple times that nothing last forever. Everything has a failure rate. If there is 5million Subaru engines in the world (I’m sure it’s less) and let’s say 5000 have headgasket failures, that’s a 1% fail rate. This is not bad in the industry. Also you need to look at the abuse those engines’ take.

Cosworth has stated that this is the best flat 4 Subaru has put out in its history.
And we will see multiple ppl on the forum with boosted applications running fine.

Iv personally have hit the 10000 mile mark and iv had no uses with this engine at this point and id say I have my spirted drive here and there so the engine does get its little beating here and there.

FUD.

Holy misleading title batman.

I've got a 10 year old 2.5XT turbo Forester, and my wife drives a 9 year old 2.5 Impreza Sportwagon RS, and we hammer them mercilessly.
Well, at least I do. My wife's a bit gentler on hers...

Neither have had any engine issues whatsoever, and I've never heard about head gaskets being a problem with H4's.
I have the utmost faith in Subaru flat 4 engines, and I'm expecting my FA20 to live long and strong too.

In a combined 19 years of Subaru ownership, we've had to replace a clutch on the Impreza and rear shocks on the Forester.
Other than that, only routine servicing and tyres. :thumbup:

And how many people reported that they have no issues?
Before u come to any conclusions, realize the percentage of issues
Vs non issues.
Subie learns from their mistakes like most companies do..
That Toyota is not going to let their reputation be at risk by
Allowing problem prone engines to exist under their nameplate.
I would also bet that many of those issues were caused by abuse,
Modifications, etc...
This is a new engine created under the watchful eye of a company known for
It's reliability and technical know how..
So don't let it keep you up at night.. I'm sure your gaskets will be fine..

EJ25 is known for head gasket problem (turbo is bearing problem more)... iirc Subaru did re-call on this problem.

But Toyota is well known for head gasket problem too (mkiii supra).

I had to change the blown gaskets on my GM6 (2.5RS coupe). I was racing every month in the summer for several yrs, so it's not the same as defective head gaskets.

My point to the OP is, if you search around, there's always a negative thing bout the car production.

That is a good sign, awesome really 'cause Subaru made some bullet proof engines in the 70's, we had a freid with a 500k suby wagon on its original engine.

Also I see where folks are turbo-ing to 18+psi on the stock long block, this should be a good indication that the head gasket and mating surfaces are a solid design.

Actually a 1% failure rate (speaking within warranty period, but there is concern for afterwards since no one would expect a 4 or 5 year old car to have head gasket failure which would lead to you never buying a car from that OEM again under the perception they are junk) in this industry is horrific. An IPTV of 10 (which is 1%) would get A TON OF ATTENTION.

If one out of every one hundred cars needed engine repair (and now I'll make up numbers like you did) that was $1000 per car it's performed on (pull engine, remove timing belt, pull head, fix, reverse reverse) means $1000 of lost money per 100 cars built, which is $100000 per 1000 cars built, which is $1000000 per 10000 cars built. Suddenly a 1% failure rate adds up quick.

And again, don't forget the long term reliablilty. Making it thru warranty period is fine, but if the car falls apart after 5 years ain't no one buying from you again. And of course, in full disclosure, you're right if the issue didn't cause a financial blip, they may be more lax on fixing it (also depends on severity result of part failure... vehicle un-driveable, etc?)

Six sigma dude.

You can get them to get green / black belts, but that doesn't mean you're clear from someone every now and then brain farting and settling on parts with a factor of safety of 1.0 under optimal (i.e. not real world; what fantasy land are you living in???) conditions.

Check consumer reports. You will see that whatever was causing the problem (that was categorized as ''engine major'') has been completely resolved on all of their models. They went from solid black dot to solid red. They have fixed their head gasket issues. But even the most reliable cars still have shit go wrong, its simply statistics.

Reserching the issue, I agree with the statistics and understand 6 sigma, but even the simplistic SPC chart of headgasket fails per 1 hundred vehicles showe a huge jump out of control when the 2.5 NA was released. Reading reports the issue didn't correlate to miles driven as much as age (corrosion/degredation) and typically showed up just after the power train warranty ended. Compare to a Toyota 1.5 NZ statistics would show a huge significant difference looking at 200k+, something the 6-sigma auto engineers aren't too concerned with.

I'm not saying we are doomed at all, but it just looks like this is something to keep on the radar. Anything that can be done to minimize the odds, I would recommend never skipping the recommended coolant flush intervals and also using an oil with good corrosion resistance as well as the "severe" 3500 mile oci. Also look for signs of battery cable salt build up as this indicates corrosion inside the engine taking place. The bad thing about the failures is time is the biggest influence, so we may not ever see the issue or it could start popping up in 4 years.

I plan on tracking the % antifreeze and sodium in my oil, hopefully it will remain zero and never see a spike .I did have the ECU recall but that's just software and has been corrected.

Hopefully this engine will prove bullet proof like the Subaru H4's from the 70's, 80's, and early 90's.

I may be one of the few who buy a new car with full intention of keeping it 20 years, I don't think we will see another design like this pltform it in the future, the industry is just not moving in the direction of lightweight rwd sports coupes.

To me it is amazing that Toyota and Subaru have been able to abstract 200hp out of this 2.0L H4 and I get 28 mpg driving a very hilly rural commute. Sometimes an engine like is over engineered (robust) in the first gen, and all indications are pointing toward that, which can be a great thing for folks who are satisfied with the stock 6.5 second 0-60 and want to keep it on the road for 200k+/20 years. Things are pointing to this being this type of engine. An example of an over engineered engine would be the Subaru EA engine, introduced in a time where US cars were at a low time reliability, the engine proved to last a half a million miles when maintained. The FIRST gen EJ was very reliable, it wasn't until the second gen EJ that things became troublesome.

Sounds like this FA may be a return to bullet proof Subaru H4 reliability.

Actually I disagree with this. Now that people are seeing how successful the twins are, Nissan and Chevrolet are looking to bring a product to market to compete. If they do well, we might see even more. And the industry in general has been putting more focus on dropping weight from the vehicles, as far as I've seen. They're still going to be heavy because of regs and whatnot, but I think they're trying to shed lbs here and there.

+1

I think we'll see several brands jumping on the bandwagon and bringing out sporty RWH coupes AT AN AFFORDABLE PRICE. The price is what Toybaru has done differently. There have always been RWH sportscars at (for me at least) unaffordable prices. Putting the "86 fun" within reach of the regular Joe is groundbreaking.

IMO, the 86 could easily start a small, light, affordable, sportscar flurry like what happened in the UK in the 60's with Triumph, MG, Austin-Healey, etc.

I'd like to see your source for this.


Thanks. :happy0180:

As of the past few years head gaskets are fine, weak piston ring lands are the Achilles heal of the EJ257

I think he was referencing the SOHC 2.5L EJ motors, which did have head gasket issues even up through the early 2000s.

Thanks for understanding my "Engrish" lol

You know me too well ;)

Love ya babe. ;)

... & so begin the bromance LMAO

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLP-HCcX9as"]The 450 HP Crawford Performance Turbo BRZ - TUNED - YouTube[/ame]

Your welcome

Very very high hoping, this car I believe to be a Swan Song to this genre, its really a throw back. I think it built momentum in the design phase due to the drifting craze which has fallen off significantly and sales are really a tiny market share. The cost to build a quality lightweight, small rwd vehicle are just much higher than a fwd. Plus as we have found out buyers want much more power.

Look at the MRS, it was a flop, really the S2k was a money loser for Honda. Even the mighty Miata is a very low volume car. I think the majority of people prefer coupe's over convertible so those aren't a great comparison, but I just don't see any auto maker that is going to take the risk that the Toyota-Subaru collaboration did.

I hope I am wrong and this car will become as popular as the EG civic did, but I really don't think the stars will align and bring another lightweight affordable rwd sport coupe anytime soon if ever. I haven't even seen any proto's besides the alpha/mazda. Nissan has given no indication, neither has Honda, and the big three have never produced a anything like the 86.

It would be interesting to see the Korean's build a 2500 lb rwd budget coupe but I think they are stuck with the more mustang like pony car Genesis.

The 86 is one of those cars that is unique and comes along every 20 years or so. That's why I bought one last labor day after waiting nearly 15 years since the last 240sx was built.

These things are special and I hope mine lasts a life-time.

Check your math. :thumbsup:

Your math is pretty awful. At a $1000 repair bill per car broken and a 1% failure rate that's $10 per car built or only $100,000 Per 10,000 cars built.

And I was so close! Just a factor of 10.... Reminds me of office space:

Peter Gibbons: Michael! Michael! You said the thing was gonna take two years! What happened? You said the thing was supposed to work.
Michael Bolton: Well, technically it did work.
Peter Gibbons: No it didn't!
Samir: It did not work, Michael, okay?
Michael Bolton: Okay! Okay! Okay!
Samir: Okay?
Michael Bolton: Okay! I must have put a decimal point in the wrong place or something. Shit! I always do that. I always mess up some mundane detail.
Peter Gibbons: Oh! What is this fairly mundane detail, Michael?
Michael Bolton: Okay, quit getting pissed at me, all right? This was all your idea, asshole!
Peter Gibbons: All right. Okay. All right. Let's try not to get pissed off at each other, all right? Let's just calm down. Let's try to figure this thing out together. The first thing we gotta do is we gotta close that account down before it gets any bigger.


Despite my ineptness at math, an automotive company notices a 1% failure rate. Especially on a high volume vehicle.

I hope you're wrong too, but it looks like the Miata will be the only serious competitor.

The Chevy 130R is a dream that if it comes to reality and is executed well could start a revolution, rumor is the Mustang is going lighter with an ecoboost which should be entertaining, and finally the Nissan "mini-z" was also hinted at (although rumor was FWD on that one, which is ok, the Hot Hatches are quite impressive right now, at least 5 serious competitors).

Best case scenario: 86 ushers in a new era of affordable sports cars, one last hurrah of everyman fun before the self driving cars become the norm

Worst case scenario: 86 is the last centurion of a bygone era before the self driving cars become the norm

Reality will probably be somewhere in the middle, I wonder if boutique sports car manufacturers will become the norm in the future... In any case I don't think I'll have any regrets about this car :thumbsup:

Yeah. I saw it. Crawford. Not Cosworth.

People sure do put a lot a thpught and energy into bringing themselves down. You own a really cool car. Abuse it, it might break. Use it hard, things wear out.

Take care of it. Drive. Repeat.

Thats what I got you guys for :thumbup:

Sorry I get them mixed up at times.

I remember this when shopping for a Forester and went with the earlier (non HG-failure-prone) engine

Subaru head gasket issue stems from the gaskets drying out and caused the issue, so Subaru put and additive in the coolant to prevent the issue. The bigger issue is the pistons and the shitty tune that causes pre-det.

The MKIII Supra head gasket issue is from warping due to being not torqued down enough during manufacturing, but later fixed by Toyota and corrected in there publications.

You're welcome.

I have a 04 wrx wagon, 167k miles still runs very well no issue. Sure it was not tracked but I agrees with many posts above, Subaru knew and tried to improvise. I think most of cause are User abuse or shitty tuning or lack of proper maintaince (ie most of mechanics do not know oem coolant conditioner is needed).

140K miles here with my 02 WRX and no head gasket issues (yet) despite abuses and mistakes made to the engine. I mean all cars have problem and if you keep fearing somethings that might happen 10 years from now then just take the bus instead.

^^ :D

my engine is leaking....
 

got my head gasket replaced and now its leaking even worse fml it seems like its only me....:bs: 24k got my gasket replaced at like 22 and now another is leaking wtf

This was the biggest turn off for me with Subarus. Over complexity for a measly 4 cylinder engine. 2 heads and their gaskets to worry about, 4 cams, pita sparkplug changes, 6L of oil, and a crankcase that splits in half. For only a 2.0L engine. I never liked Subaru much if at all. The only reason why I gave this car the BOD is because of Toyota. If they entrusted Subaru to make a car for them, they must be doing something right. But through and through, this car is a Subaru. I got tricked! Hopefully none of the ugly past problems with Subaru's surface. Head gasket failure being a major one of them.

I got a head gasket leak at 3k miles only 2 months after buying my BRZ :(