SCCA Class Reshuffle
 

Notes from the latest SEB minutes:

SS - Current SS minus Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06, Chevrolet Corvette C6, and Dodge Viper. Added Honda S2000 CR. Added some exlusion list cars like the BMW Z8, Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 (2009-13), Dodge Viper (NOC), Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca (2012-13), and Ford Mustang Cobra R.

AS - Current AS plus Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06, Chevrolet Corvette C6, and Dodge Viper from SS. Minus Chevrolet
Corvette C5 (non-Z06), BMW 1M Coupe, and BMW Z4 (Coupe & Roadster).

BS - Current BS plus Chevrolet Corvette C5 (non-Z06), BMW 1M Coupe, and BMW Z4 (Coupe & Roadster). Mazda Miata MS-R, Pontiac Solstice ZOK, and Porsche Boxster up from CS.

CS - Current CS minus Mazda Miata MS-R, Pontiac Solstice ZOK, and Porsche Boxster and slower cars moved to ES.

DS - Current DS minus RWD cars moved to FS.

ES - Current ES plus Mazda Miata (1999-2005), Toyota MR2 Spyder, Z3, BMW M Coup, and BMW M Roadster from CS.

FS - Current FS plus RWD cars from DS.

GS - All current GS/HS cars combined.

Also:

-Camber allowance removed
-ST rules to be revised to allow for existing exhaust rules
-1" +/- from stock wheel diameter still part of V3


So it's the twins vs. the RX8 in CS. Thoughts?

I think standard kappas miatas and Z's will still have a lot to say in the new CS as well. Interesting they totally abandoned the camber allowance... probably the TCS/ESC will be the next allowance to go by the way-side. pretty soon we might as well still call it "stock", without the R-comps :bonk:

Glad to see the Z0k/MSR move but I was REALLY looking forward to camber plates :( But I understand the point

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/May SEB Draft Minutes1.pdf

Copy and paste URL.

they are slowly getting to a reasonable re-org.
a couple more iterations of Appendix A should get us there.

very happy to see the trunk kit cars get kicked out of CS. finally.

I was mixed emotions about the added complexity of having adjustable camber so I am not horribly upset to see that go. Definitely excited to see the MSR and ZOK move up to BS. :thumbup:

Some of the B-Stock s2000 CR guys are a little miffed about the possibility of ending up in Super-Street, but I'll be curious to see how that shakes out. I think it would be a good thing for B-Street to allow the "regular" s2000 somewhere to play besides STR.

I'm very excited to see the MSR and ZOK move to B-Street. I think the twins will have a fighting chance next year nationally. I have a vested interest, considering it looks like I'm running a C-Street BRZ nationally next year.

This still confuses me a bit, why does the CR get moved straight from BS to SS instead of to AS? Is the S2000 CR really faster than the C5 ZO6 or are they just worried it might be and don't want to upset the Vette guys more than they already have?

I think the last part is the reason, they want to give the C5 Z06 and C6 a place where they are almost guaranteed to be the top car since they are so popular. I think it would be a good battle between the CR and those Vettes in AS. There may be enough feedback the CR stays in AS, or maybe it gets reclassified during the 12-month window.

I don't think the CR really stands a chance against the GT3 and Elise.

The CR move to SS is absurd.

Two class jump for the CR is just... well... they expect it to compete with a 997.2 GT3, the Lotuses, and RX-7 FD?

Riiiight.

I agree. Those Corvette guys are ridiculous. Any time there is even a tiny change to anything they are the first ones on the message boards acting like the sky is falling and threatening to sell their Vettes and never race again if the change goes through.

I think the SCCA should just make a C5 ZO6 class where they can just have all of their old stock rules and tires and just compete together and not worry about anyone else.

The CR should be buried. It's expensive, rare, and you can't do a package conversion to a normal S2K to make it a CR. I think it'll be more competitive than people think in SS with street tires.

They did effectively kill off T1, where there's a somewhat large vette population in SoCal.... :D

We have more than a few CR owners on this board... they can't be THAT rare.

Unfortunate to see the camber allowance go. It would really have shaken things up a bit.

Tony

1300 cars sold in that package. Fewer and fewer will be available as the years go on as people will hoard them as collectibles. It's not a car to class aggressively. Plus its silly to make a newer car that in its most competitive form doesn't have a stereo and AC for a class that is supposed to be for dual duty street cars.

I agree, they probably shouldn't be aloud in STR either?


Simmons

599 were ever produced and sold in the US. A few have been exported, a lot have been crashed.
I don't think they should be buried in S-Street, but I think they should have a place to play where they are competitive, but not totally dominant as they are in B-Stock, which basically eliminated the hope of running a "cheap" s2000 and being competitive.

I don't mind them being in STR, plus, a CR hasn't actually won a national championship. An AP1 and a "body in the trunk" AP2 have won. I don't think there is as big a need for a CR in STR due to the allowable mods. This is coming from a "body in the trunk" AP2 STR owner.

It's not just a package. The CRs are identifiable by VIN.

Did not know you lurked here!

Who forsaw in the beginning of STC (back when it was ST or STS, I can't remember) that the top dogs would be hunting down 88 chassis' because that was the only year of the Civic Si built in Japan and was lighter? Who's to say that in 5 years, people aren't hunting down CR's so that they can remove the stereos and AC and be 90 lbs lighter than an AP2 S2000 (quoting Car and Driver) in the same guise? Any weight reduction that can be done due to mods on the AP1 and 2 can be done on the CR.

That doesn't matter for autocross. If I could swap over all of the changes from a CR to an AP2 it would be legal. Like how people buy 94 Miatas and buy the parts from Mazdaspeed to turn them into R packages to be competitive in ES. Since you can't do that for an S2000 to turn any 08 AP2 into a CR, its a big problem for class competitiveness.

I hate saying this, but you gotta pay to play. If you got into competitive autox thinking it was cheap.... well... we both know it's not.

We all know that the person (or team) with the largest budget has the best shot at a win.

:scared0016:

I've driven both of the twins, one in RTR form (@Kido1987) and one in STX mode (@GTB/ZR-1) and have a lot of respect for them. The owner of the RTR car and I are discussing running his nationally in C-Street next year, so I've been keeping an eye out on the boards.

I have actually had both of them apart in my garage come to think of it....

I don't think it is crazy that they moved the CR out of BS to allow the other S2000s to compete, I think it is crazy they put the CR in SS.

I'm not saying it should be cheap. But putting a rare/expensive package of a car out there in a position where it can dominate does not foster large competition, especially when you're talking about an S2000 which was popular before the CR was classed in stock.

And since you aren't an autocrosser, the stock class where S2000's compete have had less and less participation since the inception of the CR since it made the AP1 and AP2 obsolete. Not a good long term vision.

I'm not an autocrosser, but I do keep up with what's going on in the AutoX world; I believe in educating myself in as many different aspects of driving as possible, and I'm fairly versed on what's happening. I have a lot of friends that are pretty hardcore about autoxing; it just never really interested me.

AS I can understand, but SS? Please.

I think most are fine the CR got moved out of BS. It basically killed BS over the last couple of years. I think B-Street will be a well subscribed class with the AP1/AP2 and we'll see if the C5 Vette guys feel like running in it or not. There is also the MX-5 MSR. Who wins is probably going to be really course dependent.

They put the CR in SS to bury it. There has been some a anecdotal evidence the GT3/Elise stock on street tires runs about the same times as STR...

There may be enough support for it to not move to SS and go to AS instead. Last year they proposed moving the Z0K and MS-R to BS and it failed.

Someone must hate the CR owners that is all it is. SS is absurd since the car is basically an AP2 with AP1 parts. More balanced, yes but nothing, sway bar, pads and tires cant fix on an AP1 and AP2.

The camber correction proposal getting axed blows.

Ahem... the whole point of stock to street IS to make autocrossing competitively cheap(er) :lol:... if we are still under the guise of "gotta pay to play" give me my goddamn R-comps back :mad0260:


:sigh: what a catch22, no one will ever win this game.

I am kind of happy about it. One less thing I have to worry about setting up on the car and I don't have to look forward to people showing up with their "stock" cars on trailers and 3.5* of camber dialed in.

Yeah while the camber allowance is relatively easy and cheap on our cars, there are others it isn't. I wrote in against it, I don't think it's necessary with a move to street tires.

I understand why, its bad for a stock class. But alignment is a critical part of handling.
The fact that there is no factory adjustment on a car like this for camber is annoying as it is. And then to have some cars with horrible cross camber differences from factory makes the need for correction important.

A strong case for this is when, two stock cars one from factory with -1.5 camber in the back another with near zero. So basically its crap shoot do you get lucky or how do you cheat to get a better alignment. Should not come down to that.

keep in mind that this Appendix A was put together with the intent that the new
camber rule would be in place. since the camber rule has been withdrawn there will be
and should be some movement in classes for Rev 2.

having said that, i have no problem with the CR being buried in SS. they should put
the CS trunk kit cars there too... ;-)

370z vs RX-8 vs twins should be a fun battle, as long as it isn't a power course.

Local will be a little lame next year as we have ~9 RTR (so C-Street) regulars but 7 of them are in NB Miatas which are going to E. No Stock RX8s or Zs around me.