Goodbye Cayman S & E90 M3... Hello BRZ! *Pics*
 

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About a year ago, I test drove the FR-S on launch and knew then that this -- or preferably, the BRZ -- was a car that I wanted to get into at some point. By then I was driving an '06 Cayman S and my original drive report can be found here.

I had some minor criticisms of the car but in spite of that, I ordered a white FR-S in winter because I could not find a local BRZ. The car took too long to arrive and I ended up selling the Cayman S and got into a beautiful E90 M3.

http://imageshack.us/a/img809/3046/64194972.jpg
Fun for a while!

6 months later... the M3 is gone and I'm now in what I really originally wanted, a WR Blue BRZ 6 speed, Sport Tech. What a wait!

Here are some pics from two nights ago right after delivery from Richmond Subaru:

http://imageshack.us/a/img844/451/1z8a7186.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img856/66/21024.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img35/4218/1z8a7167.jpg
Love the interior upgrade over the FRS. The seats, the Navi, the heated seats, the dash materials. Everything feels so much more mature.

http://imageshack.us/a/img547/7996/1z8a7219.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img248/63/1z8a7230.jpg
Red, meet blue.

First impressions are very good. It's exactly like a 90's Japanese sports car modernized for the 2013's. Aside from the navi, everything is very straightforward and unlike the M3, does not require multiple buttons presses and layers of menus to manipulate. The steering is firm, gearbox tight, clutch is feather light and engagement is spot on. The engine is loud, raw, and revs like a chainsaw. It is not velvety like the M3 V8 or sonorous like a Cayman S flat 6, but the car has a character and feel that makes me extremely nostalgic about the 90s Japanese sports cars that I grew up with. I'm thinking 240SXes, CRXes, Integras and the like. Raw, feelsome and very very fun to drive.

In many ways, it reminds me a lot of my Cayman, a car I still miss from time to time. The seating position is similar because I can slam my seat to the floor without compromising my view over the dash. Steering wheels comes close to my chest which is great, and the relationship between all the controls just feels so right. Again, very much like the Cayman. And the wheel itself rocks.

But unlike the Cayman, it feels even lighter on its feet and very eager to be throttle steered. This is its greatest strength. Transitions from left to right feel hyper agile and it's very natural to exploit its rear end steer-ability using the steering and throttle. This is so unlike every modern car that emphasizes stability and so much like one of the all time greats... the Mazda Miata (I used to have an '01). No, the BRZ is not fast. No, the engine does not sound very good (almost like a sewing machine, my brother joked). But as a complete package, it is very consistent to its character and feels so right!

While I'm no fan of electric assisted steering, the BRZ steers with a beautiful weighting, a trait very much lost on the newest electric steer BMWs (I'm looking at you, F30). It will never approach the nuggety feedback and connection from a great hydraulic system like the 997 Carrera or the 987 gen Cayman, but it is quick geared, VERY responsive, and with that uber light front end is just dynamite to flick around corners. This car LOVES to turn!

Oh and I love the skinny tires. This combined with the throttle steerability makes the car extremely entertaining even at modest speeds. This is again, very much like a Miata. In fact, I would say the BRZ is exactly a hardcore Miata. Stiffer structurally, firmer damping, more responsive, less body roll, better driving position, tighter gearbox, engine is not as sweet, but overall the car is more modern and just as raw and throttle steerable. And it has much more usable cargo space for a daily driver.

The only thing I really wish it had was a cable throttle with all the tingly feel and rawness that the rest of the car conveys. You won't get traction control, but that's a compromise few would make in 2013.

Ok, more impressions as they come and I will be updating this thread. Later this month I'll also be getting some extended seat-time in the newest 911, Boxster and Cayman and I'll update with how the BRZ stacks up against those revered benchmarks. Stay tuned!

By the way I highly recommend Richmond Subaru. Wes (salesperson) and Donald (Sales manager) were fantastic to deal with. They got me into the BRZ that was otherwise unobtainable without an extended wait and that's pretty sweet. Yes, I paid full list but nothing weird like mandatory accessories.

Woah, woah..... THE Richmond Subaru??? I thought Revscene started a beat-down crew sign up to visit these guys... Better have a good walk around again to make sure they didn't fuck up your car like they did to this guy:

http://www.revscene.net/forums/66330...s-service.html

First of all, congratulations on your purchase and welcome to the forum! You made a wise choice.

Now, onto the content of your post. The pictures are publication-worthy. They capture the beauty of the BRZ and the WRB paint. Even that red Porsche pails in comparison to the little Japanese sports car. As a fellow Zed owner, it is nice to hear such praise from someone who has driven the vehicles that you have. I've always wished I had more grounds to compare the BRZ on, but my history of cars does not include many worthy competitors. I knew the car feels amazing to drive and very connected to the road, but it means more coming from someone with more driving experience. Your words are proof that good things come to those who wait, and the hype associated with the Toyobaru twins is very valid. I will be looking forward to your future posts and pictures. Once again, congratulations and welcome to the club!

Congratulations!

I'm confused, why you went from the cayman to the brz though? Seems like a downgrade to me :iono:

I'm guessing his cock got tired from all the p*ssy he likely got with the Porsche.

:-)

Interested as well, OP. I would take either the E92 or the Cayman over my FRS in a heartbeat. In fact, I planned to make the move to one of those two cars after I was done with the FRS.

Either way, that BRZ is :wub::wub::wub::wub:

Thanks for the kind words, Umbie! Really appreciate the comments on the photography, means a lot to me!

As for giving up the Cayman and M3... well, sometimes less is more. The narrow tires and throttle steerable chassis on the BRZ makes it fun at lower, more legal speeds than the supercars that need a lot more commitment and law-breaking to feel any bit alive.

And I still have a C4S.

Congratulations!

And welcome to the BRZ side of the forum. :P

I suppose since you still have a 911 4S its not quite as shocking...but yeah, no way in hell I would replace a Cayman S with a BRZ. I've driven both in anger and I fell in love with the Cayman's handling, power and that sweet engine screaming behind your head.

If Subaru doesn't offer a faster BRZ in 1-2 years I'm hoping to upgrade to a Cayman S:party0030:

Congrats and Welcome to the fold! BRZ\FR-S is still the best car under $35 grand. Yeah the new Cayman S is bad ass but it's way too expensive. A lot of people think the BRZ\FR-S is too slow...this is not entirely true...just get a Ecutek tune and a good intake and drive it like you stole it and you will be so happy.

But when that turbo BRZ comes out in a few years, I will on it like white on rice!

I have owned Corvettes, Nissan Z cars, and even a G35 coupe and the BRZ is still the best car I have ever owned...

Nice review! My final two choices ended up being a 987 Cayman S and an FR-S, and I drove the two for 4 hours on a variety of roads before making my decision. I agree with your review, almost word for word. "Sonorous" is the exact word I'd use to describe the sound of the 3.2L flat 6. I could listen to that soundtrack all day. Steering feel in the Porsche was less artificial (the FR-S, while good, can feel electrically-assisted sometimes), but steering response on the FR-S is very quick and direct. And yep, there are times I've wished the FR-S had an actual cable-throttle.

I ended up picking the FR-S because it felt like better value and would be cheaper to track/autocross in the long run, but I'm sure I would have been happy either way.

I agree so much, I feel the delay, maybe it's psychological but when I'm comparing it to my 20 year old pickup truck then I think something is lacking.

Nice to see another person who can appreciate the lightweight chassis of the BRZ. I also owned a Cayman R and a E92 M3 previously.

I remember when you were waiting for that cayman on m3forums :)

I'm another who has had a Cayman S and now own a BRZ. For me, there's really no comparison...the Cayman S is a better car in every way (save for efficiency), but the value of the BRZ is just hard to beat. Plus, for me having a car under warranty is a big factor. Free oil changes for life and Subaru reliability make service a ton cheaper, too. So right now, at this point in our life, it's the car for me.

Here are some shots with the CS by a BRZ...taken a year ago. I wasn't able to drive the BRZ at the time, but it was my first look...

This is part of the reason why. I'm looking forward to a trackday or two. Trackdays in 911s and Caymans get really expensive, really fast. The size and width of those tires alone...

You guys seem to have all bought the fr-s with reasons similar to mine.

Makes me feel better about not getting that shiny c5 z06, lol.

Great pictures and review. Can't wait to hear your upcoming impressions of the 991.

The tire cost isn't that bad as long as you don't have the 19's and insist on Michelins. And brake pad wear is excellent because Porsches have fixed caliper multiple piston brakes, unlike sh*tty sliding calipers that don't distribute braking pressure as equally:(

Seems like we got a lot of Porsche enthusiasts on the forum. Am I the only one who thinks they are far overpriced and dislikes the infamous body style? Its solely a personal preference, I have nothing against Porsche owners/fans and can't speak on the cars themselves as I have never driven one. Its just besides the Carrera GT and 918 Spyder, none of their models really appeal to me. :iono:

Great review. After a lot of backroads driving I found that the car reminds me a lot of the first-gen Boxster in terms of power to weight and neutral, throttle-steerable handling, although the BRZ feels a bit "looser" than the Boxster. There is a lack of feedback through the steering wheel, but your inputs are very sharp / accurate and the weighting is nice. The overall communicativeness of the car / suspension makes the slight lack of steering feedback manageable imho.

Glad to see someone agreeing that the car is very trim-able with the throttle after reading that EVO review where they complained so much about lack of power. I find the car especially fun on really tight, curvy roads where you can stay in second gear and basically use a touch of steering combined with brake / throttle application to slither the car from corner to corner-- it doesn't quite feel 911-like because you don't get that ungodly traction once you're turned in that allows you to mat the throttle, but you can definitely make the rear end dance around the outsides of the corners and rotate the car in. It's really fun.

I honestly can't believe how well set up these cars are from the factory. The only improvements I'm inclined to make are some bushing replacements / braces here and there to eliminate drivetrain slop and maximize throttle response, some lighter (stock size) wheels, possibly a light-weight crank pulley set and an exhaust. My biggest grumbly point about the car is that I've listened to what seems like every aftermarket exhaust system sound clip on youtube and I can't find any that sound genuinely arousing. I think the Milltek and Perrin ones sound the least-bad, but that's not saying a whole lot. I'll probably get the Milltek system because it's lighter and I really like their system that's installed on my GTI.

Also, that picture from your other thread of the Toyota dealer with the Cayman and Exige out front is hilarious. I'm so glad the twins made it to production :)

Try and drive one if you can, particularly a 911, preferably an older one (at least old enough to have hydraulic steering and "conventional" suspension). They take a little getting used to / re-learning to drive hard, but once you've figured it out you'll climb out considering which of your body parts to sell to get into one on a permanent basis.

My family has a tweaked 993 and on the whole I think it's the best street car I've ever driven. It's a bit like the twins-- not crazy fast (still a lot faster than the BRZ, but not "too fast for the road" like many new cars) but the handling is delightfully engaging. Everything about the car is a bit raw and brutal-- it's got heavy controls, marvelous steering that provides a ton of feedback from the road, and the barking, roaring sounds that come out the back are straight up arousing. It's even fairly practical, with gimmick rear seats and a fair amount of cargo space. It's basically the greatest thing.

Congratulations!

I also owned an E90 M3 before picking up the BRZ. Other's I have owned include a C6 corvette, 700whp Supra and 400whp STi. The BRZ satisfies far more things I need then any of these cars could and it does it while keeping a smile on my face. ^_^

I haven't owned a porsche, but that's mainly because I dislike their look. The Corvette was definitely a more fun car that was helped with raw power and I do feel like it out handled the BRZ. However, I had a lot of electrical issues so I traded it for my Supra. As for my Supra, it starts to get old when you can't put the hammer down in 3rd without losing traction. It was fun at first having that mass amount of power, but since I was looking for a car I could have fun it and drive daily, the Supra was out. The M3 was very similar to the BRZ in certain aspects. About 100hp per liter. Lack of torque in comparison with total power. The first time I drove my E90, I wasn't interested. The salesman actually had to convince me to try it out again and we took it down a backroad. Only then was I set on it. The BRZ is very similar. If you just take it down a highway then you are missing out on everything the car is about. The first time you take it down a twisty road though, thats when it will win you over. The only bad thing is you need to get the crummy tires replaced in order to experience its phenomenal grip potential.

If I had not purchased a home, I would still have my M3 but the BRZ definitely meets all the needs I have now and it is still a blast to drive. Maybe in the future I will pick up another M3, but I want to get an E92 next time!

I remember you.

I second a lot of points the OP posted. The car feels like a Miata with stiffer suspension. But falls a bit short on feelings from Steering (a bit better than RX-8). Clutch is soft compared to my 01 Miata but I guess some people like that. Manual shifter is a lot longer than Miata, RX-8, and S2K. Feels almost like my 2003 Audi A4. But A4 was smoother and less notchy. I want to know what Cayman shifter and steering feels like.
I couldn't stand the engine noise on the twins. They made it too loud and is on constantly at any speed. I wish there was a button to lock the tube out.
I think I'll actually end up with a 2013 Club in near future instead of the twins.

Posts like this really make a strong point for these cars..
Welcome to the family !

I bought an FR-S about a year ago. I've driven both the 911 and a Cayman. Pound for pound the FR-S really holds it's own against two really great performance cars. But, the FR-S is just a place holder for me. My next car will be a Cayman S. You can get a used, low mileage Cayman S for $30K(ish)...great deal for such a great ride.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Say what? I never heard of a lifetime free oil change, the longest I ever heard prior to this was a 3 year.

I traded a Boxster in on my FR-S. the Boxster was a great handling car, but I felt it was a hand grenade ready to let go. The tub on the 986,987 is fantastic, but the engine and all the accessories were sub par. I think Porsche built low quality cars in the late 90s and early 2000s. In 2009, when they got rid of the intermediate shaft and 34 engine parts, they stepped up their game. The same for the cayenne. I had an 06 that was falling apart after only three years. The 2010 appears to be on the mark. I would be tempted by an 09 or newer Cayman S, but in today's economy, the FR-S, BR-Z was a no-brainer.

John

Ganthrithor, I think your comments very much echo mine.

Soravia, you are not missing much in terms of Cayman's shifter. It's typical Porsche. Easy to operate, medium throws, pleasant enough but nothing sensational like an S2k. The 987 gen Cayman's steering is sensationally full of feedback however. Lots of nuggety feel all throughout and you get a real sense of the tires loading up as you enter and exit corners (the BRZ steering is good, but not this good). Very very satisfying, almost as good as the Lotus Exige that I had at my disposal for a while (but not quite Lotus quality). The Lotus has the best steering in existence IMO.

http://imageshack.us/a/img38/3362/1z8a1062.jpg

In spite of the first response to my thread bashing Richmond Subaru, this is something that they actually included with the vehicle. So long as you complete all scheduled maintenance exclusively with them, they will always pay for the portion of the service that is oil related. Pretty good, I'd say, though I enjoy doing my own maintenance.

Given your tendency towards big power cars, I get where you're coming from but for me it's the opposite. I am really enjoying these low grip tires because they are lighter on their feet and love dancing around at lower speeds. With the big grip cars like the M3 and Corvettes, you really have to be cooking to feel like you're working the grip.

The ONLY thing I'm not enjoying so far is that kids with rusty two thousand dollar beater civics and integras are constantly trying to hassle me. In the Porsches... I never got this kind of heat. In fact, I've never even known they existed.

@Rosso_Corsa: Funny you mention that, I just stumbled across this earlier whilst trying to get a flat six aural pleasure fix: Youtube (Note: I do not condone this dude's approach to highway driving-- it is the wrong place to experience such aural pleasure)

Also, dat garage.

Out of curiosity, do you have many good driving roads up in BC?

A local member has said it before but I will say it again; I am uber jealous of your spacious garage!...

Thanks DaJo!

Ganthrithor,

There are quite a few outside city limits, but the heat is a bit too serious this year. See, we have a law where any citation of 'excessive speed' comes with an automatic vehicle impound. If your vehicle is high value enough, they will even sell it off.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01...t-racing-case/

Oh, and they run helicopters all day long to try and catch speeders...

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Poli...523/story.html

Over the top right? Not a fun place to be a car enthusiast.

I'm sure you have way better roads and probably more manageable heat in Colorado.

Speed limits in the Vancouver area were UBER low, from what I remember, so having a little fun = lots of trouble. I did a trip out to the west side of Vancouver Island (way out of town, I realize) a few years ago, and was having some fun on the twisty highway coming back, and would occasionally squint at my MPH speedo and do the math to find I was doing double the KPH limit without meaning to. I wonder if they'd have impounded a car from another country :)

Offered by Subaru of Kings Automall here in the Cinci area. And like Rosso_Corsa said, it's only on the oil change. Oh, and they want to do it at "recommended intervals", which on our Impreza is every 7500 miles. I've gotten them to OK a change every 5k miles (makes it easier to remember :) ).

Of course, with my past history, a "lifetime" of oil changes will only last a couple of years anyway...I tend to go through cars like some kind of A.D.D. for car buying.

...I am trying to change that... :bonk:

Isn't that just it? It doesn't surprise me that we have so many high end car enthusiasts in this thread and forum. I was comparing the Cayman and the BRZ, and while the BRZ doesn't have the Porsche cache, it does have a cache all its own. Excellent performance coupled with that Japanese economy and as opposed to the IMS engine which seems it might fail at any given moment, we have a warranty. On another note, thanks to the OP for the thread, its been great to hear these comments which have simply been affirmations concerning my own experience with the BRZ. Lastly, on Sunday past, I saw three Caymans, I didn't see one BRZ or FRS, there's something to that too! for however long it lasts. :thumbsup:
BUDO

This has been my experience as well. Not even the MP4-12C could touch it.

Someone on another forum told me that the 997.2 had resolved this problem. Have you heard anything?

Having not driven the Porsche or Bimmer, I can't comment first hand, but I see where you're coming from. As for your comment that the BRZ is like a hardcore Miata - I find it to be more like the Miata's bigger brother.

I had a modified NA - full Flying Miata suspension and frame rails. Handled sharper and felt very light on its feet. I owned both cars concurrently for almost a year. The BRZ was much softer riding - in a good way - not harsh, and very comfortable over bumps. You could definitely feel the 300+ pound weight difference in the BRZ.

The Miata was slightly more fun to drive, while the BRZ gave a better overall driving experience (comfort, features, etc) while still being very engaging and fun itself.