Header - Nameless vs JDL
 

Basically eventually I'll be looking for a EL header as I'm not a fan of the "Scooby Rumble". I wouldn't normally do a post like this but being from the other side of the Atlantic I'd need to be 100% sure of my purchase. I've narrowed it down to these 2 as the JDM ones seem overly expensive, we only have one here in the UK and it's unproven and the Nameless/JDL ones look fabulous quality. Shamefully I like the gains of the P&L but I'm not a fan of the up & over pipework.

I've been trying to compare the graphs of the 2 but to me they look very similar, which isn't surprising. I also can't find any solid pricing on the Nameless one....

This graph also has me confused, as Nameless has posted this:

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/...psd3872ef9.png

and also this:

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/...TopEnd29hp.jpg

Which look nothing alike around the dip, but I can't find an explanation that separates the 2. It shows a different exhaust (3") but I can't believe that's the difference. Any ideas? @Jason@Nameless, can you help? I have tried reading through the full thread ;)

So which would you buy and why?

:thanks:

Interested in this aswell since I have the same problem :)


Off-topic : how are you liking the litchfield upgrades?

@Litchfield upgrades feel good. Impressed with the remap and the springs feel great! Some track days will show up the real potential though.

I believe the nameless is an "up & over" design like the P&L or FA20Club...

The only pics I can find easily or quickly from the Nameless thread is:
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...66874476_n.jpg

Which would suggest that it's not up and over.... but if you can prove to the contrary then I'm all ears. I don't mind a tiny bit of a loop, just so long as it's not right up into the bay.

I have the same dillema, i want to replace the header with a decat, but i just don't feel like there's a mature product yet. Only supersprint seems to have a solid proven offer.

Do you know if milltek is doing any r&d on headers?

The picture you have above is the header for the bottom dyno plot. The up and over design is the one that made all the power in the dip... top graph... Give them a call. easier to get ahold of them. Header prob wont be for sale for a bit more. Jason is was also at a rally today. Prob wont be on here for a day or 2.

This.

That would explain it, cheers Nick!

Erm.... costly:
;)

Supersprint is mega expensive and not worth the extra IMO, even though they're more local I can get one from the US for better money.

I've not heard anything about a Milltek manifold, it seems unlikely. There's simply not the market over here. For those in Europe, we have a UK brand (Hayward & Scott) who has released a manifold which I will be dynoing on a mate's car on Tuesday. I'll see how that performs. This is it installed:

http://www.haywardandscott.com/media...hpim0591_1.jpg

It all boils down to your patience right now. If you can be patient and wait for Nameless header, it will be the best one, you won't regret it. But, I can also understand people who can't wait anymore and need a header now.

I don't have a EL one, but the build quality on the JDL UEL Header is amazing, and it feels good in the dip and up top.


Simmons

Correct, but I do not think it includes a ECU tune. While the header does make great gains, it's the tune that helps eliminate the torque dip. I'm not sure if Nameless ever completed the development of the 4-2-1 header. If they have it was not revealed here (which would be a smart move).

I ordered the JDL UEL. I just love the quality of their stuff. Also, I have on order their over-pipe and front-pipe w/ HFC.

My top picks for exhaust products are JDL, Motiv Concepts, and Nameless. I can tell you that these 3 manufacturers have gone above and beyond to answer my questions and those of a great number of members here and other forums too.

These are their first batch of testing prototypes. These produced the curves from the second posted chart. Those were done before they had an available tuning solution (whatever the Pro version of Ecutek is, I believe...)

These are their second gen prototype:

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2b25560c.jpg

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/...psb1e0b6bd.jpg

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/...pse037a99b.jpg

I think they were the first to do the 'up and over' as you call it, in a search for space they needed to get their runner lengths optimized which results in the big mid range hump of the first dyno graph you posted. Acoustic tuning plays a role in this header's performance.

Also keep in mind that all P&L's big number dyno graphs are on E85 fuel. Available in the UK?

Nameless numbers are on pump gas.

We used to have limited outlets of E85 but they've gone now.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pandlmotors...dyno-graph.jpg

24 tq over base in the dip looks pretty big to me. It's also on a "base" tune that hadn't been refined for the header. I know you're a huge Nameless fan, but all you seem to do is try to pick apart the P&L product, and accuse them of doctoring the dynos.

Hey, they have a great looking Dyno, but until they actually release product for purchase it's what we called in the computer industry, Vaporware.

It's E85 numbers that bug me, not P&L.

Edit:

Hawaiian, from your thread the E85 FA20 Club tune makes a shit-ton more power and torque than the graph you just posted. And it's a great curve. There is no doctoring accusation, *cough Agency Power cough*, but for those of us without E85 (where the OP is located, and me) it's not an obtainable number, period.

So it's important to point that out to prevent disappointment.

Personally I would prefer that vendors/developers keep to pump gas only in their marketing and leave the E85 to personal build/tune threads, but I know that won't happen.

It's hard to tell form many of the dynos I see from this car since they start relatively high, but I hope we're not sacrificing too much in the low RPMs.

That severe valley in the top Nameless dyno is right at 3250rpm. That's a pretty abrupt drop, and -20ft-lb on Stock right there. I'm hoping that's an anomaly from that particular run, or will be tuned out by release. I'm thinking it would be very noticeable in daily driving. Everything else about it looks great though.

I wish we'd get more dynos that start at like 2500rpm or so.

500rpm length dip > 2500rpm length dip, no matter how you slice it.

No doubt it's better. Just hope that will be smoothed out, or is just an anomaly.

I wish nameless would chime in and update us on their headers. Ive sent them 2 pm's and no response.

I would go with JDL or PnL . we have no clue when nameless headers will come out

I would like to see these graphs run from idle up, or at the bare minimum 2000rpm.

I would love it too, but they are EXTREMELY busy. 16 hours days of work type of busy....

Their sales have increase in the past few month exponentially.

Everybody stop ordering things from them! :lol:

I plan on getting the Nameless headers when they release them. They're quite busy and I know they are working very hard to get all their new products out (intake, tower bar, headers, maybe a few others). So I will patiently wait :popcorn:

Anyways, they shipped out my front pipe :D

PS keep in mind (IIRC) Nameless numbers include a few other mods: intake, headers, front pipe, axleback, and a light tune from English Racing.

Here's a quick video:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNxN3HMnZqE"]Namless Performance's 2013 Scion FR-S 188hp/159tq - English Racing - YouTube[/ame]

It does include tune and fulll exhaust. No intake though.

IIRC they have a full metal replacement pipe (see AVO, Zeta, Perrin silicone tubes) that goes from the throttle body to the stock airbox.

If you didn't want a rumble, I would go with P&L at this very moment. Their header has been shown to destroy the dip. The nameless header might seem amazing but it seems to induce a pretty terrible dip and it's also vaporware.

I got tired of waiting for nameless and went with the JDL UEL. Their craftsmanship is top notch. If you don't like it, I'm sure it'll be a super easy sell on the second hand market. I'll sacrifice a few HP for a much nicer exhaust note. :)

Edit:

Apparently Jason stated it was not in the car for the Dyno plot.

That's one I can't disagree with. UEL sound is awesome.

Jason said it was not on the car for the plot that was posted.

I'm seriously considering jumping in on the P&L group buy.. as much as i want to wait for nameless i just don't think we are going to see a production unit in anyones hands in the next 3 months..

I figure I can get the P&L to tide me over then re sell it when the nameless finally comes to market.. I may even do a back to back comparison..

Good thread. I have been wondering the same things about the same brands. I am super happy we have these options so soon for this car. But it does make deciding very hard!!

:thumbup:

We need more threads like this. Very helpful:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31555

Unfortunately it is hard for any one company that is not already selling a header product to have access to all the available header options and do dyno comparisons on the same dyno with the same car.

I ordered a JDL UEL header. I can't get over this craftsmanship!

http://jdlautodesign.net/wp-content/...ollector_2.jpg

http://jdlautodesign.net/wp-content/...ollector_1.jpg

http://jdlautodesign.net/wp-content/...-UEL-Col_4.jpg

http://jdlautodesign.net/wp-content/...4/FT86-UEL.jpg

:drool: