Another annoying what spring to buy question
 

Okay friends, I finally got my tax return money and I need to ditch my 4x4 ride height... But I'm torn between the Eibach Pro Kit and the Eibach Sportlines. Now, before anyone yells at me to use the search, I've been searching for the past week or so but I can't get a clear answer to my question.

Is the 1.4" drop "too much" to provide good handling? The spring rates are a bit stiffer on the Sportlines and I love the idea of that much of a drop, but I've been reading a lot of conflicting things about the FRS not being able to handle that kind of drop without hurting the handling.

So basically, do the Sportlines offer better handling than the Pro Kit because they have stiffer rates, or does the bigger drop make them more of a "form over function" kind of deal?

Thanks so much!

Have you been to the Suspension part of the forum? Ditto to your question though.

Just get coilovers, springs are pointless imo.

I lowered my car on sportlines yesterday and ive noticed my turning radius has decreased but I am happy for now... Ill be upgrading to some stance coilovers in the future if nothing else catches my eyes.

A nice spring/shock setup is way nicer than a cheap set of coils. I don't plan on tracking this car (maybe the occasional auto-x over the summer, and just for fun) so springs are a much better option for a car that is 95% of the time going to be a daily driver.

I've been reading the suspension forum a lot... Still can't get a really clear answer as to whether or not the 1.4" drop ruins the handling. Some people *say* that it is too low, but I dunno if there is any merit to that.

i would probably go for a 1 inch drop if you dont want to ruin the oversteer.

this is how my car sits now

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...14040105_n.jpg

Just cut your stock springs and save money! :thumbup:

Nice looking car! But how does the drop effect the tendency to oversteer/understeer? I thought that had more to do with the stiffness ratio of the front and rear springs. I guess I should have said my goal was to make the car handle much more neutrally and be a nice daily driver with awesome handling.

Nooooooooooooooooooooo hahaha

Springs are not pointless.

Why don't you try to ask some of the vendors, sometimes they have those exact parts on their shop car or their employee cars. I'm sure you'll get some specific answer from them, lots of our vendors sell Eibach and lots of them own personal FRS or BRZ. Try that.

Rce yellows are supposed to be really nice and have nothing but good reviews on here from what I've seen.

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I keep hearing awesome things about them as well... But I really want a bigger drop and if I can get a comparable spring that goes a bit lower I'd prefer that. The stock wheel gap on these cars is ridiculous, looks like a truck.

coils bounce bro, and that aint good imo

well, this is where i always park and i have to turn my car around to get out so i know how far i get til i hit the curb on the other side. the oversteer lost isnt noticeable when im driving anywhere else though. it still handles like a monster but the "daily driver" thingy and low dont mix well lol

where did you get that front lip (though it's not a front lip... the side things on the lip....)

I believe the drop on the pro kit doesn't end up being the full 1" something like 0.8". So the difference in drop between the rce and pro kit is pretty much the same. Something to keep in mind.

I've read somewhere 20mm drop is ideal for this car from a handling prospective. The ohlin coilovers suggest a 15mm drop and they are one of if not the best suspension company around.

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I've modded plenty of cars as well as worked with customer on theirs. So hope my 2 cent helps and worth the weight. No guessing or Googled opinion on my part.

Lowering springs + struts is the cost effective way to lower the car, but you can't adjust the ride height. That's only achieved by going with different brands, so Eibach may drop your front 1.4", while H&R might drop 1" in the front only. Another point is that once you find the right drop, the spring might not offer the rate you want, so it will either ride too stiff or soft. It is also a bad idea to change out only the springs and not the shocks, as you put more stress on the OEM shocks, therefore, cutting their lifespan. I'm not saying the OEM shocks suck, but just don't be surprised when they are blown. One last note on the springs, once installed, some brand WILL have a settling period where they'll drop just a bit more.

Coilovers - Usually cost more, unless you go with those unbranded Ebay specials. This is the best way to go if planning for the 'slammed' look, or might be looking to change wheel size in the future. Besides adjustable ride height to preference, most premium brands also offer "dampening" adjustment. Meaning it allows you to adjust how hard/soft the car rebounds. I saw a comment above that coils are more 'bouncy'? Em... no.
Some coils-overs even allow you to change out the springs for further customization on rates. Another perk is that the spring seats on the coil-over are smaller(so far on the brands I've sold or used), so you could go with wider tires and not worry about rubbing when turning. While lowering struts tend to have a bigger spring seat (the part of strut that flares out, where the spring sits on).

Worst thing you can do is cut OEM springs. >_<

RCE Yellows. Not too expensive, good reviews, stock-like ride quality, and a good drop (0.75")

haha yes, I know how springs and coils work... I was more asking if anyone knew mechanically if the FRS can handle the 1.4" drop. I like the rates of the Eibach Sportline springs and I think that amount of drop is perfect for aesthetics, but I don't want to negatively impact handling in any way. I plan on getting Koni shocks after my OEM ones blow.

i've had a lot of setups on previous cars from h&r coils, eibach pro-street coils, to a spring/shock combo with bilsteins. Best suspension came from a set of springs matched with bilstein shocks. I never once touched my coils after the initial ride height was set so it was a total waste.

That being said, i'm looking into the eibach pro-kit or H-Sport springs for now...then later koni yellows, or bilsteins if they get made...

Thanks! I don't need the adjustability, I just want my car to be as low as possible with the best handling as possible, with handling being the most important factor. I figure once I put the springs on my stock shocks will last me at least 20-30k miles, so it would be pretty wasteful to replace them right away considering they only has 4k miles on them right now.

I bought my wheels off of a shop car and the pro kit was thrown into the deal since he had it set up for those wheels and it was just easier to do it all together. (I heart sweet deals)
I can say that the ride with these springs and stock shocks is less jarring than the oem set up. Even the one person I stuff in the back said she could notice the difference in the ride and she likes it better now. It's still tight and responsive and didn't change the handling as far as I can tell and I dd it. I did hate the lifted jeep look of the stock tires and well gap.:barf:

I will probably switch to coilovers in the future but for now the price was right, I achieved the look I wanted sooner than I had planned, and I can save for other mods iso just coilovers.

After seeing how you improperly installed your coilovers I don't think you are qualified to be making this statement.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...98&postcount=7

Scott

Shawn,
I keep a pretty good tab on the suspension section and follow very closely many of the conversations regarding this. Between other's experience here and my own experience with my own cars, I wouldn't recommend using springs only for the amount of drop you are looking for. The stock struts just weren't designed to work in that ride height range.

If you were bent on using springs I would recommend the RCE's with a set of Koni struts. I don't think you will get all of the drop you are looking for but you won't be compromising your car's safety, ride quality, or longevity of your suspension components.

Honestly though, if 1.4 inches is what you TRULY want, you're just going to have to bite the bullet for the coilovers. DO NOT CUT YOUR SPRINGS!!

If you only do an occasional autocross and are not a serious track racer, I would recommend the Buddy Club Racing Spec coilovers. They can be found for around $1300 all around the web.

Scott

Rookie mistake. :thumbsup: Everyone's endlinks knock until they realize it.

They be baller as fuck nao, so it aint no thang i got money idgaf ye.

Oh yeah, how are your coilovers doing?

I'm just busting your chops like I would with any "rookie"!:respekt:

At least you posted your mistake like a BOSS where most would have hidden it!

Bravo!

Scott

A good set of springs, if he replaces shocks, can be better than a set of coilovers. I'll take a set of RCE Yellows, Swifts, Eibachs and Konis over things like BC, Stance, K-Sport, Megan or any sub $1500 coilover.

Why not Swift springs? I believe they're lower than RCE but not too low.

+1 for RCE though since I just installed mine.

0.8" for RCE, 1" for swifts. I'll be going with Swifts when the time comes due to spring rates. I like oversteer. RCEs are more neutral.

Are you planning on driving track or auto cross?
If so, you might want to lean towards coil-overs.

If you only plan on having a more aggressive/tight street driving experience, like through back roads and such I would recommend the the pro kit. I had a similar thread to yours and from what I have read the pro kit is only about a 1 inch drop so it doesn't put to much added stress to the stock shocks. However, if you drop it more than 1 inch, say 1.5-2 inches (or more) you are going to need to replace your shocks as well if you do not do so right off the bat.

Plus the car is so low that a minimal 1 inch drop should be more than enough. I am pretty sure the car sits at 4.9 inches off the ground stock

Like I said, I want a normal daily that is lower and is less oversteer-y. I plan on replacing shocks later, after my OEMs die out. They are so new that it would be silly to waste what life they have left in them. I really just want to know if the control arms and other suspension components can handle this 1.4" drop from the Eibach Sportlines, really. I don't need professional setups or anything...

I appreciate all of the feedback! :happy0180: but this thread has turned into what every other suspension thread has - "you should buy coilovers instead, brah!" and "YOU NEED SHOCKS!!!!!" or "X spring is what I have and it is good, why not go with that?"

I'm not really asking about what springs work, I know what rates I'm looking for and the question really is about drop and nothing more.

So does anyone have information regarding whether or not the Sportlines are form > function? To me they look like the more performance oriented spring because of the stiffer rates, but some people are claiming that the drop isn't ideal for the car. Anyone have some hard knowledge on the subject?

In that case the Pro or Sportline will be fine for you. Coil-overs are only if you are doing track/autox. Otherwise i would go for the sportsline and you will be more than happy. If you want you can add a strut/sway combo too which is not too expensive

Not much to add, I never drove my BRZ on the stock springs and wheels and tires. With pro-lines and staggered fitment (8.5/9.5) it rides real nice. Nice and firm but not jarring. I went with pro-lines as I don't have the coin to spend on new struts atm, and hope these last. And from the ride I hope they last a long time!

My Yaris with s-techs and tokico blues rides harsher than the brz.

<3 Love ya.

A little off topic (but not really), but if I buy the TRD springs from Scion, and have them install it, will they replace the struts to go with the TRD springs, or just use the stock struts and basically replace them under warranty if the stock struts ever blew?

I believe they just use stock struts. And they won't replace them because shocks are a wear item.

I'm in the same position as you. I want springs that work with the stock struts and shocks (will upgrade those later) that provide a performance improvement that reduce oversteer. After some research I'm going with the rce yellows.

From everything I've read anything over 1" of drop is more form than function and doesn't play well with stock struts and shocks.

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There's only 1 spring that lowers more than 1", and I think that's the Eibach Sportline. Everything else is in the 0.6" - 1" range. There's other raked setups in which one end of the car is up to 1.2" lower too, but I'm not a fan of those.

RCE has received excellent feedback and by looking at the spring rates it looks like it would make the car too neutral, or even understeer, but people have confirmed that it doesn't and you can still rotate the car easily. Those are a 0.8" drop. I do like the oversteery nature of the car, but would only like to reduce it a bit, so I'll probably end up getting the Swift BRZ springs for my FR-S. They're a 1" drop and a little bit less tail happy. If I ever want to change that, I can probably order a set of Swift FR-S front springs and play with the balance.

Yeah, I've read this as well. I'd love it if someone could please explain why this is truth or if it is just what people like to say because they just think it is too low. I don't care how they work with the stock shocks, they will be replaced eventually.

So can someone explain the science behind this?
http://www.mememaker.net/static/imag...es/1065416.jpg

:thanks:

Performance standpoint:
When you drop the car lower you have to increase the spring rates so the car doesn't bottom out. Lower cars are theoretically better right? Lower cg, less body roll, all four corners are close to the same loads due to the stiffness so you're theoretically using all four tires. Right?

Well yes but there's a limit. There needs to be some body roll to load up the outside tires in a corner, it helps the car "hook up" and rotate. Go watch NASCAR at a road course or F1, in a hard corner at the apex it isn't unusual to see the inside front tire hanging in the air because all of the weight is on the outside tires as the car is rotating. By lowering the car and increasing the spring rates you're basically riding a stiff box, the car doesn't have the suspension travel to roll over and hook, which can work on some cars but they're usually not mass produced road cars.

Now consider that changing the height and spring rates you are transforming the characteristic of the car, for better or worse is up to you, maybe you induced some understeer, maybe you amplified the oversteer, maybe it's somewhere in the middle, either way the results can be unpredictable if you go to an extreme.

Now consider the reduced suspension travel. If you're on a smooth track, no problems. If the track has bumps, rough patches, corners that require you to clip the curb to get the rotation then the car may "skitter" over those for lack of a better term, you won't get the same amount of traction as a more compliant suspension. You're also making the car more nervous, to a point where it could be hard to control because any jarring (from the roads or from your hands) could result in a significant loss of traction. Now take it on the road, oh jesus no idea what you'll run into not to mention clearance issues.

So in summary, extremely lowering a car may be beneficial but there are risks that you could transform a car into something not as fast as you had hoped and impractical. But of course nobody knows until they try, this is a generic diatribe rather than car specific.