Test drove an FR-S, thoughts
 

Took an FR-S for a test drive today, at Victory Toyota / Scion in Canton, Michigan. They had two in stock, a lava manual and a raven manual, which still hadn't been through PDI. So I had to wait while another couple was test driving the lava. It was JF1ZNAA16D1717840

I was a little nervous because I've spent maybe an hour total ever driving manual transmission cars, but I was able to get through the test drive with only staling twice, once pulling out of the dealer parking lot, and again at a 4-way stop sign. The rest of the time I was fine, although I had trouble finding 4th a couple times. The clutch also felt better than other cars I've driven.

Overall, the car felt great, it really felt like a driver's car. The power output complimented the car very well, the brakes felt good, engine sounded great. Only complaints are first gear is REALLY short, and the shift knob felt horrible, like a golf ball.

The salesman seemed annoyed I didn't want to buy a car today, and told me if I wanted one, I should order one ASAP, etc. They claimed they'd be able to order a 10 series.

Afterword I drove a few towns over and test drove a 370Z, and it wasn't NEARLY as nice. It had no road feeling, the seat was really narrow, the gas pedal was really heavy and difficult to use, and it felt like it had less horsepower than the FR-S. I was shocked at what a piece of crap it was, for $10k+ more.

I'm thinking about buying in July, and now I'm torn between a BRZ and the FR-S 10 series. All the Subaru dealers in the metro Detroit area have been TERRIBLE to deal with, while these guys and another Scion dealer were actually putting effort into little things, like answering questions or giving me the time of day.

If anybody wants a lava FR-S, this one's been sitting here a month now.

For you?

Fiat Abarth

Reason why Z felt slow/less power cuz due to Z's weight. If you drove Z first & drive FRS/BRZ, FRS/BRZ felt gutless & peaky.

Shift knob is gonna feel like a ball as that is pretty much what it is. Unless ya get an aftermarket one. Only way to figure out which car is for you is too drive them both. Find a different suby dealership and see if they are any better. I drive both an went for the FR-S and it is a blast to drive. I have had cars with more power, FI, etc and this thing puts a smile on my face everyday. But everybody is different you could like the Subaru more. I would say try them both definitely tho; ya don't wanna ever look back and wonder what if....

-Chuck

Never test drove a Z yet, but my friend told me that it was very fast.


In my opinion the BRZ looks better than the 10 series.

If the FRS/BRZ is going to be the first car you really learn how to drive manual on I don't recommend it...yet

The Z was a good bit faster in a straight line, but that was it. The handling was just horrible.

Everything I've heard about the manual is that it is no special challenge, and probably more forgiving than most cars. I can't imagine someone wanting a manual FR-S/BRZ that would need to spend money on some other car they don't want just to learn. Sounds like an incredible waste of money. Any half normal person who took care, would be reasonably proficient in a week without any mishaps.

That is two more times than my FR-S has been stalled. In all seriousness good for you for having the confidences to test drive a manual.

The Z will definitely stick you to your seat a lot better under acceleration, but it also gets worse fuel mileage and weighs upwards of 1,000 lbs more. Totally different kind of car. The FR-S is light, nimble, and agile sports car. The Z is a heavy-hitting, grand touring sport car. Two different approaches, two very different feels. Z is also about 10 grand more to buy as well (even more for the high end touring models).

You can see which choice I made... No regrets whatsoever. I wish it did have a little more oomph in acceleration, but since I daily drive this thing, I love getting 32-34mpg highway, and 24-26mpg city.

i cant help but think that neither of those bold statements are true even though i agree with the overall message. i think for what nissan intended, the z is great its pretty far from offering the driving experience of the frs. iirc, its target was to bridge the gap from these small sports cars and the more gt or high speed cars like the corvette. i think the most telling thing about the car is that its not even really that trackable considering the brake and oil issues.

The 370Z is no speed demon, but it has quite a bit more punch than the FR-S. Almost 2 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile...

This was my first manual car, was pretty easy to drive as a novice in my opinion

The base model 370Z is ~500lbs heavier than the FRS and cost ~ $8k more, and comes with an open differential (LOL Nissan). To get the LSD you need the sport package which adds an additional ~$3k to the cost.

Z price fluctuates from 33k-43k, but even at the cheapest, that's 8 grand more. Curb weight sits around 3350 lbs, which is a 600lb difference. I was under the impression that the Touring model was a lot more, but I guess not! The Roadsters though, get upwards of 3500 lbs, an 800lb difference.

Agreed. It's not a bad car, it's just got a different philosophical direction. Plus, the 18/25MPG isn't exactly attractive when I'm getting 24/33mpg in my FR-S.

Yeah, this is one of the easiest manual cars to drive. I learned on a beatup old box of bolts, this thing is like silk by comparison.

I like the Z, but at its current price point, I hate it. The main thing I couldn't get over was the interior. It felt very ricey; they way the gauges moved with the wheel and the overall design. I'm hoping the new Z is going to be a direct FR-S competitor; an affordable sports car, just like the original Z.

down here in socal the base z goes for a bit over 31k and i try not to compare the vert as all its weight goes to something other to performance (i guess well have to wait to compare vert to vert). another thing that i think gets overlooked is the flipside of the tire argument. people are well aware of how much tires improve the handling but i dont think people seem to acknowledge what they will to to mpg. i would still assume its better than that of the z though.
here in socal it sells for $1200 more than the brz so i dont really know what price point you are thinking of but i think its a pretty good deal if thats what youre into. the original z creator said that the miata is the spiritual successor to the original z and spoke highly of the twins while criticizing the 350/370 for its weight so if nissan listens, you might get your wish.

+1

only took me about 2 days to learn. Haven't stalled since. Sometimes some jerky shifts but that's it.

Advice: Don't buy from pushy salesmen or shitty dealerships that won't talk to you

i learned manual on a 2010 Kia forte koup SX. Ordered it blind because they didnt have any SX models their. So day it came in, dad drove it home then i took it out and learned how to drive it. only way to learn

newer cars with the CDV are wayyyy more forgiving then the old ones with out

i drive my brother in law Z and its a heavy but the V6 makes up for it but still not as fun as GT86/FRS/BRZ nimble :burnrubber:

I drove both 350Z and FR-S. Didn't feel FR-S was anywhere near the Nissan's power though.

I agree, I had a chance to test drive an Fr-s and was amazed how well the engine revved. Unfortunately, I was in Durham, and my test drive wars cut short due to the storm and the sales lady started to freak out! I'm so over these dealers attaching all the extra stuff to drive the price up, I checked out like 4 dealership and none of them offered the Fr-s with the base price with stock options.

So want this car, but price is few grand over what I want to spend!

Did you tell them you were willing to put down a refundable deposit to get the car without options?

It was still a pain in the ass because most lied and said "that opportunity is over" or will take the deposit and put their options on it anyway but it may be you're only option.

Good luck, fucking hate dealers too.
:happy0180:

VLSDs that Nissan use are junks.

I did... I was totally upfront with the sales person I went on a test drive with. If you can't get me a base FR-S then don't bother trying to sell it. As car salesman are, she did and she just kept chatting about how good it is to have these extra stuff on it and its cheaper to get it now then install it later.

but there is another way around the price. I'm thinking about leasing the FR-S. I've looked at some quotes online and can get a 36 month lease of 293 a month with 2k down which allows 12k miles a year.

Good thing 2014 scions are rolling in end of the year... may put a good deal on 2013... hopefully

If you plan on leaving the car stock, this would be the way to go. If you plan on doing ANY modifications to it, I would strongly recommend you don't lease. Toyota is not very forgiving when it comes to this.

Scott

I am actually thinking about leaving it stock, just to get familiar with it. Once I buy it, I'll plan to modify it. I want to learn the car in its base form first.

And besides, I just got married want to have some money on hand to splurge the wife!

I test drove a 370z as well and had the same impression. I felt pretty claustrophobic in it and it felt underwhelming for some reason. The FRS on the other hand didn't exact wow me in its straight line performance. I actually didn't really like it on my initial test drive but after owning it for a week I realized why it was applauded as a driver's car

I test drove a 370Z with sport package including the 19" forged Rays with Potenzas. It was one of the loudest passenger cars I've ever driven. Normal conversation above 60 mph was ridiculous due to tire and road noise. I commented on this to the salesman who assured me that "nobody buys this car for it's interior noise level, it's for driving, not talking". As if it's a Ferrari.

I walked.

No doubt the 370Z is a little quicker to 60 and most likely increases the advantage above that speed, but FR-S has something no Z will ever have, light weight. Also, the transient response, control balance, ergos, view out the windshield reminiscent of a 2000GT's and 911's arching fenders, simplicity, usefulness with fold down trunk access for bikes, initial cost, economy, reasonable insurance (my insurance company rates it like an econobox, no sporty car premium) and top safety ratings sold me.

And with a few reasonable mods like intake, exhaust and tires, may give a Z fits on track and autocross days. I'll let you know when mine arrives in June. :D

I'm still impressed at the number of threads that are made in regards to dissapointing fr-s test drives.

Once they realize it's not straight line fast they are extremely confused.

I'm getting tired of these people...

The cars are in high demand, let those people walk away so those who appreciate the car can buy them quicker.

:burnrubber:

Well I didn't even look at any other cars for sale and really like my FR-S the only thing I dislike is there's not enough money in my pockets for all the mods I want...:drool:

I stall the FR-S a lot. If it's the only car you drive than it's easier, but if I hop in my other car for a few days and then back to the FR-S, I end up stalling it a couple of times. It's probably got something to do with the ridiculously low idle and the fact that I get out of bed in the morning more easily than this motor revs off idle (again, probably due to the silly low idle and probably something to do with it being an h4 instead of an i4).

-Justin

I was in the same boat. I had a 2005 tC since summer of 2005 and always looked at whatever the hot cars were at the time in a reasonable price range. S2000 was my top pick, but it was a convertible, and I don't like those. RX8s were nice, but looked awkward and got poor fuel mileage. 350Zs were bland with a sparse design and plenty of issues in the early years. 370Zs were still not fantastic looking, but continuing to move out of my price range. Evos and WRXs were right up my ally having owned three DSM cars previously (two Talons and an Eclipse, all turbo, two AWD), but I wanted the sexy coupe styling.

Out of nowhere I see this concept for a stylish, good looking, 200hp, light-weight, rear drive sports car coming down through Toyota as a Scion with four seats and 22/30mpg?? A lightbulb just went off. I was on the waiting list 8 months before release. I had to defer my spot in line as I was buying a condo right when they were coming out. But after wrecking my tC a few months ago, the process was accelerated. Choice was already made months ago, it was just about making it happen.

I love this car, and I plan to have it for quite some time.

Yea, I stall the fr-s at least twice a day....

I'm still learning though. Getting better every day

It likely stalls because it's got NO torque at low revs. Even my tC didn't stall this easily, but it had a 2.4L. I just make sure to give it some good gas before slipping it out. Always something to get used to when driving different cars. In the tC, I barely had to give it any gas to smoothly take off in 1st (or 2nd, for that matter...).

In fairness, there aren't many internal combustion engines that make much of anything at 600rpm where this lump idles. You have to get it up over 1500rpm to even get to the range that most would consider low revs.

-Justin