Forget the NA vs Turbo debate!!!!
 

Lets hope the ft86 doesn't have drive by wire!


TORRANCE, Calif., January 26, 2010 - - Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., today announced that it is instructing Toyota dealers to temporarily suspend sales of eight models involved in the recall for sticking accelerator pedal, announced on January 21, 2010.

“Helping ensure the safety of our customers and restoring confidence in Toyota are very important to our company,” said Group Vice President and Toyota Division General Manager Bob Carter. “This action is necessary until a remedy is finalized. We’re making every effort to address this situation for our customers as quickly as possible.”

Toyota announced it would recall approximately 2.3 million vehicles to correct sticking accelerator pedals on specific Toyota Division models. Toyota has investigated isolated reports of sticking accelerator pedal mechanisms in certain vehicles without the presence of floor mats. There is a possibility that certain accelerator pedal mechanisms may, in rare instances, mechanically stick in a partially depressed position or return slowly to the idle position.

Toyota’s accelerator pedal recall and suspension of sales is confined to the following Toyota Division vehicles:

2009-2010 RAV4,
2009-2010 Corolla,
2009-2010 Matrix,
2005-2010 Avalon,
Certain 2007-2010 Camry,
2010 Highlander,
2007-2010 Tundra,
2008-2010 Sequoia

No Lexus Division or Scion vehicles are affected by these actions. Also not affected are Toyota Prius, Tacoma, Sienna, Venza, Solara, Yaris, 4Runner, FJ Cruiser, Land Cruiser and select Camry models, including all Camry hybrids, which will remain for sale.

Due to the sales suspension, Toyota is expected to stop producing vehicles on the following production lines for the week of February 1 to assess and coordinate activities. The North America vehicle production facilities affected are:

• Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Canada (Corolla, Matrix, and RAV4)
• Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Indiana (Sequoia and Highlander)
• Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky – Line 1 (Camry and Avalon)
• Subaru of Indiana Automotive, Inc. (Camry)
• Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Texas (Tundra)

No other North American Toyota vehicle production facilities are affected by the decision to stop production.

The sticking accelerator pedal recall is separate from the on-going recall of Toyota and Lexus vehicles to reduce the risk of pedal entrapment by incorrect or out of place accessory floor mats. Approximately 1.7 million Toyota Division vehicles are subject to both separate recall actions.

Info from- http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/t...610_p228906387

That is a shit ton of recalled cars

so, what are the benefits of drive by wire anyhow?

In FT-86, you don't brake torque car, car brake torque for you.

that's what I want to know. hell probably everyone wants to know. someone please inlighten.

Saving weight would be nice. So would fewer moving parts and less service needed. If Toyota can get this stuff working right, I'm all for it..

Article, found by simple google search: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-dr...e-by-wire2.htm
If anyone wants to actually go out and learn something, rather than arguing about how something "feels"... Please, do so.

Nah :)

=P
That's why I said "please"... nobody's making you.

Nothing, really. Just replacing a mechanical part with an electric one.

In theory, this might mean more precise measurements of TP, which is an important variable in ECU scaling.

Throttle response should be much better, but I've heard quite the opposite; guess it's all in the factory calibration :iono:

As to weight savings... yeah, whatever. Maybe for braking (any cars on the market even have that), but for a throttle, we're talking about removing a cable and a small metal actuator and replacing it with a larger electric motor... ehhh... I'd like to see the actual weight savings there.

DBW was originally introduced specifically for a more efficient cruise control.
They haven't used the electric motors for cruise control since they went to DBW -- They needed the electric motor to operate the throttle for the driver, hence cruise control. I think they started using DBW a lot in 2003-04 on most cars.

When they introduced DBW they allowed the ECU to control throttle electronically - no longer needing a big electric motor to control the throttle body -- providing (supposedly) better fuel management while lightening the load.
(only for cruise control) Benefits for the driver -- supposedly better throttle response, lighter pedal feel and increased fuel economy.

DBW could use the ECU readings to control the engine completely - could tell if you were driving up hill - down hill by monitoring the wheel speed (tire pressure monitor or with new wheels or no sensor, speedo readings) and add / reduce fuel to maintain set speed.
Weight savings : think about it, they have a single sensor on the throttle (TPS Throttle Position Sensor) wired right into ECU harness : thats a lot lighter than the entire old pedal assembly, counter weights and springs and on CC models, the huge chunky motor.

really how much weight are we even talking? a couple pounds maybe? I guess if you were a pure race car trying to save every ounce than ya. but there are other things you can do for weight, replace glass, remove washer fluid resevior and wipers, get a skinnier girlfriend. you know real practical stuff. haah

Reminds me of the uproar when the mass movement from carbs to efi was made :bellyroll:



















was I born when it actually happened? hmm.....

I think I was JUST born when they started switching to EFI -- they went EFI nuts mid - late 80's. I mean 1990 was the year the last carburetor motor was sold new off the lot (in the US) Subaru at that. So being born in '88 puts me smack dab in the middle of the Carb > EFI switch. hell, we still have a 1979 Pontiac Parisienne with a 4bbl 350 (hand built by my dad in '95) with a 3 speed auto parked in the back yard -- that thing has balls!

As for the DBW system -- I personally still prefer the mechanical throttle, with electronic Cruise Control modules installed (electronic override for cable system, basically both systems minus the huge electric motor attached to the pedal) This method was becoming increasingly popular by auto makers but they decided to go with the full DBW system as a more efficient way to control the engine.

Weight loss was more than likely marginal. As you said, maybe only a couple pounds which in a day to day setting, is like losing weight gradually, or getting a skinnier girl friend :P

Carburetors suck donkey balls. I don't miss 'em. Yeah they're simple, but they only run right under a very limited range of circumstances.

EFI and distributorless ignition FTW :D

They didn't stop at recalling, they're halting sales of those vehicles.

http://jalopnik.com/5457679/toyota-h...our-protection

Amen!

HEY! i have a distributor!! :paddle:

i hope it does have DBW. my '06 Tacoma has it and it works perfectly. i've driven an M5 with it, and the really cool feature with that is when you push the "sport" button, the ECU sharpens throttle response. makes it easier to be smooth during normal driving, but gives a razor-sharp response when desired.

DBW eliminates the need for any extra cruise control system, idle speed control valve, and idle-up valve. there is more flexibility with running wires to an electronic throttle than there is with running a cable to a mechanical throttle.

-Mike

I'd remove the sport button and just make sure the current is constantly sending the "sport" signal.

I'm already used to having razor-sharp throttle response in my DD.

^ Yes. why would you ever want to take it off sport mode anyway. :)

Last I checked, ALL cars have been drive by wire for a few years now... :iono: Can't remember the last time I saw one that wasn't..

i should clarify: throttle response is already VERY crisp in the M5 (E39, 8 ITB's, velocity stacks on each, huge plenum, etc...). sport mode honestly is TOO crisp in certain situations under normal driving conditions. keep in mind, crazy-awesome throttle response is different with 370ft.lbs. of torque, heh.

yes, i realize that what i'm saying borders on sacrilege, but that was my experience with the car. :) when i was just driving around, i left it in normal mode. but don't worry, it spent PLENTY of time in sport mode too!

-Mike

:word:

My younger brother is your age :bellyroll:

A lot of people are back and forth on drive by wire(DBW), On the 8th gen Si's the DBW was a Lil hesitant, but blitz came out with a DBW controller which helped, but DBW is also beneficial to tuners, because they can tweak and mess with you throttle according to % of pedal pushed, especially with the controller, but it's only a few years later and the DBW has improved dramatically, almost no response delay or lag at all, just goes to how picky you are, and what your going for in your endeavors.

like i said before, car companies have been fully capable of making electronic throttles just as precise and responsive as mechanical throttles for YEARS (at least since 2000) if they choose. it's all up to the manufacturer. it could just be that more people are complaining about the lack of responsiveness now and the car makers are finally doing something about it.

If it's electronic it prolly isnt too hard to change. And the less components means less overall weight..small change I'm sure, but its something.

...FT86 will have drive by wire. It's a new car with a new engine, by a company that has already moved all of their models (if I'm not mistaken) to DBW. Sorry.

But, whatever. It's not like mechanical throttles don't stick - they often do - and if you really need it (you don't), throttle/brake intervention is just software and can be disabled.
Nissan's had a system that kills the engine if throttle and brake are both being applied for several years.

This, however, is a reason I want a key controlling the ignition (no faux starter button) - if the engine needs to shut down (for mechanical or safety issues), I want to be able to kill it NOW and not have to hold a button for several seconds.

Sorry for the double post... but

Yes and no. Carburetor are easy to work on and tune if you are familiar with 'em, and while a carburetor will rarely run as well as EFI (especially across the entire rev range), it will almost always run. And there are many situations in which I'd prefer a carbureted engine running poorly to an EFI sitting cold because the program isn't quite right.

For something like ATVs that I love to run around on, they definitely have their place.

Not for long. Most of the major brands have already switched to fuel injection. (450cc)

^^^^ this is true^^^^

High power, high compression engine, + shitty gas = nice excuse to run a carb. True story.

:laughabove: true true

I'm suprised most car enthusiasts have yet to see the article/investigation about this, along with most normal people.

Toyota's have had 'black boxes' of a sort for a few years now, and Toyota, or someone, has looked into these and found the data they record. It shows that 99% of the reported 'accidental acceleration' issues are driver error. ie. drivers pressing the accelerator instead of the brake. The boxes showed a normal pedal position, and then an increase up to (usually) 100% on throttle, with absolutely no increase of the braking pedal before an accident... The only reason you probably don't know about it is because of the American media pulling the wool over people's eyes. They don't want people to know about this as it shows they're wrong. They would rather put the blame on toyota.

The same thing happened with Audi in the 1990's, a few people spoke out about an acceleration problem, and everyone else followed suit, when those people didn't really have a problem in the first place.

This just leaves Toyota stuck... they can't exactly blame the crap drivers, how would that make Toyota look? So they say they are looking for a fix to a problem that isn't there, and making it look like they are doing something by shaving people's pedals down, etc. when there really isn't anything to fix. That has been Toyota's policy for ages, they figure people would rather know if something is wrong with their vehicle and have them bring it in to get fixed than do what so many other manufacturers do and don't tell anyone about it until they bring their car in with the problem...

Yeah, what's up, nice mkiv, bpu?apu?

nice comment... but what's that gotta do w Turbo or NA?

My original topic for this thread was the DBW incident. But like most of our threads, it was derailed. hard.

Oh~ I forgot... My bad

It was in reply to the OP :D

BoostJunkie, thanks, it's almost BPU I suppose. Has EBC, FMIC, and a modified downpipe (removed cat convertor), no exhaust yet, though I want one. :P

I still need to do quite a lot of work on it to get it to the standard I would like, so these things will come before the exhaust. I'll just say it's a little rough around the edges.

Yours is nice too. I've always wanted a red MKIV! And it's a late model too by the looks of it?

The DBW Fear is funny to say the least. Cable throttles stick too especially after many miles of driving leaves the throttle body chock full of gunk. I've checked the throttle body on both my mom's van and my grandmother's ('96 Ford Windstar and '01 Toyota Sienna respectively) both are cable operated v6 minivans and both were oozing with carbon deposits. The Windstar which was higher mileage actually had almost a half pound of ooze in the intake since it was lower than the throttle body.

The problem with the runaway Prius is even if the throttle did stick wide open no amount of braking stomping will slow them down as they rev to 4-5k and hold that RPM. At low RPM, braking might stop the engine but at peak HP > braking power. The only solution is to toss it in neutral and let the engine blow. They have a CVT but even an Automatic there is no Clutch to stomp down and let the engine blow or to at least slow down enough to get it unstuck. And traditional Automatics will jump into lower gears to increase RPM under full throttle so brakes might not work in that case. I consider clutches safety devices :happyanim:. har har anyway [/joke][seriousness].

@Snaps
It would be ironic if having an auto with the MUCH larger brake pedal that people still committed acts of unintended acceleration. I believe you but please share the link.