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Feeling the Nannies for the first time.
I have about 500 miles on my BRZ and thought it would be nice to learn about the "Nannies." So I drove out to the sticks (family property) and visited some wide gravel corners. I had my first noticeable intervention when I tapped the accelerator near the apex of the turn. I wanted to see how much the back would kick out at ~30MPH on gravel and figured this would do it. I figured I might very well slide out or spin out but this was a seriously big, flat corner with great visibility and no roadside hazards other than grass --so I accepted the possible consequences of sliding around a little bit! Anyways, the rear started sliding out and BAM! The car started doing all sorts of weird stuff and rather suddenly I was heading out the corner going 15MPH in a strait line.
The reason I bring this up is that I am still really confused about what exactly the "Nannies" do to make the car safer. I would love to hear some stories or some impressions/knowledge from those who have them. My best description that I can muster about the "take-over" was as follows: Steering got a bit heavy when I tried to use just a fraction of counter-steer. Brakes were applied rather abruptly but only for a moment. Throttle was cut/reduced. Which system did what and how would VSC "Sport" mode change that? Redirection to old posts or links to knowledge that has credibility= :happy0180: |
The problem was the fact that it was on gravel. The traction control is for "solid" paved ground, with gravel the road way can "move/slide" confusing the sensors.
For gravel I would drive with all systems off. But I would keep the TC on for the streets. Hope that makes sense. |
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Makes perfect sense. Good insight. Thanks! |
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j8qggahGNH0"]Toyota 86 Traction Control Demonstration [SKIDPAD] - YouTube[/ame]
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What the fuck is wrong with youtube? For the last day or two I haven't been able to watch videos at any resolution-- even 240p shit sits there buffering for several minutes after every few seconds of video. It's not my internet connection, youtube's just been unusable.
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Brakes would be EBFD. From what I understand the ABS pump is able to individually modulate each caliper to control wheel spin and wheel lock such that the tires have maximum traction. Throttle response and loss of power comes from VSC/TCS IIRC; it senses wheel spin and reduces input so the wheel stops spinning.
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@Shutter. I have watched that video many times but it doesn't give any perspective from the driver. Whos is it? What are they trying to do? Watching them spin out and slide around makes me think that they are either not able to actually navigate that course properly given the state of the "driver-aids" or they are purposefully accentuating what the car is capable of with them off... which brings up my original idea for people's personal experiences/thoughts regarding what the "Nannies" do to the car--or don't do. |
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@Goody-If I'm not mistaken, the skidpad has a plate built into the ground and when the vehicle passes over it, the plate moves toward the outside of the turn(so if you are turning left, the plate will try and move the rear of the vehicle right) to simulate loss of traction from the rear of the vehicle. (Edit)-Now that i watch the video in fullscreen, I dont think they have any moving plates, but the pad is meant to be very slick because of the water, so even when just trying to accelerate the back end tries to swing around. I havent watched the video with sound yet(we're moving, and no speakers on pc yet) but it does help to show how much each vehicle mode will allow the car to rotate/how it can help save you when the rear end tries to come around! As to how it tries to prevent too much oversteer, I dont know...In for more research! |
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[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traction_control_system"]Traction control system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] Any time the system detects wheel slip the brakes are applied to the individual wheels to regain traction. The video demonstrates how much slip the system allows before kicking in and regaining traction for you. They're aren't any algorithms or "alternatives" to try, it's a feedback loop; if slipping apply brakes => is it still slipping? if yes apply brakes more, if no take brakes off. Overly simplified; yes (there's some complicated maths) but conceptually it's a pretty simple system. |
not sure, i do know if you stomp the gas with all systems on you can still spin out.
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When driven on tarmac, the roads hold up together and the only thing the computer will have to work on is debris and water(Suspension loves tarmac). Ice roads youre totally f**ked without the proper tire, and if your car is on sand like in southern Iraq then youre screwed.. |
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The "nannies" are a conjunction of all ABS, EBD, TRAC, and VSC working together to keep the car under the driver's intended control although for most people they just get in the way. In your case, I would assume that VSC would be the prime moderator in determining how sideways you should slam into a tree if there was one.
From what i can work out, the VSC computer will individually brake whichever wheel needs brake force applied under it's parameters and TRAC cuts power to avoid further oversteer allow minimal slip angle. Setting VSC to sport mode would basically set the parameters to allow you to have a little more slip angle, backing off the TRAC throttle intervention but not more than a pre-set factory setting and trying its best to keep the car recoverable. Of course turning all the systems off would allow you to slide all day long. |
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@Turdinator I thought that might be a fun experiment but I had a passenger and about five minutes before reaching this particular corner I had got a call (hands-free ftw) in which I was told we would BOTH get free food and beer if I headed back into town. I would have sessioned that corner for a quarter-tank of fuel if not for that victual dilemma. @kolpap I appreciate your analysis of the systems. What I experienced is very similar to what your described. I felt the brakes and power-cut happen very abrubtly but also found that when I was rolling safely at 15MPH out of the turn I was able to punch the gas again and move along at an acceptable rate for the road. |
I'll be curious to see when I get my car (just a few weeks now!) how intrusive the nannies are on the BRZ. I know on my GTI and the family 135 you have to push pretty hard (or drive pretty sloppily) to get them to engage.
It's definitely a good idea to learn to drive without the electronics though. Whenever you get the chance I'd practice with them off. If you can get to the point where you can drive smoothly by practicing with the electronics off, then you'll find that during street driving the nannies should almost never intrude (since you won't be upsetting the balance of the car): the most you should get is some traction control under hard acceleration (with all systems on the car usually doesn't want to let you get any slip angle). |
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The only time the "nannies" will come in is if you're traveling too fast for the road (negligence) or you are making a conscious effort to be a hooligan. :burnrubber: Driving like a safe motorist you should never feel the safety features kick in. |
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Best way to learn about them is to try maneuvers with them on, then off, in a safe environment. Just my personal experience from driving various systems on different cars over the years. Hope this helps. Welcome to FT86Club! |
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hmmmm
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Just for the record, the BRZ/FR-S is a very tail happy car indeed, as set up from the factory. I would advise that anyone new to RWD cars learn how it handles with the systems off on a piece of pavement away from stationary (or other moving) objects. :)
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Just surprised no one has asked this already:
What on earth are you doing feeling the nannies?! |
VSC is really good when you're on rain slicked roads where there's a possibility you'd give it too much power in a corner and spin out. However on good roads at high speeds the car works better to let the tail slide a little bit, so long as your angle is good, it's better to leave VSC partially off if you want more control in the corners.
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Driving the car like it was meant to be driven. Why buy a driver's car (that is somewhat compromised in the comfort department) if you have no intention of driving it as its creator intended? (Yeah, yeah, I realize a lot of people buy a car because they like how it looks, or want to turn it into a show car, etc.) |
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