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-   -   The AS1 and engine swaps (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3246)

Syldrin 01-12-2012 01:35 PM
The AS1 and engine swaps
 
So i am going to shock this forum and not ask if it's possible to swap other flat 4's in. i am going to tell you it is possible. i have been chatting with greddy on another website and, i want to share the response i got. initially i confirmed that the greddy car is a EJ25 via greddy. Greddy has been very open with their information. now i am not saying this will be easy but i am saying that it is possible for us to do this swap. i know a lot of us crave more power for our own reasons and i know a lot of us are satisfied with the power that the vehicle currently makes. but for those of you who want to do a swap here is the answer.

Source: http://www.scionlife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210886

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReddy_Staff (Post 3959807)
Syldrin,

The EJ25 motor will mount onto stock sub-frame without modifications.

Is this an easy swap? We'll let you be the judge....
Anytime you swap, you're bound to run into challenges. In our case, we are building a vehicle from the ground up so that was a challenge itself. After mounting the motor, some of the challenges we faced were designing and fabricating a custom turbo and intercooler system, to mating the motor to G-Force transmission. We also custom made all fluid lines, modified wire harness and everything in between. Since we're building a competition vehicle, it would be biased to compare our "swap" to someone who may do this on their daily driver. The modification we incurred may not apply to them. You know what we mean?

We know you guys are dying to see pictures of the engine but unfortunately we can't release any at the moment because the car is still under development till it debuts on track in Long Beach. Sorry

Mr.Jay 01-12-2012 02:18 PM
Don't want to sound like a hater but wasn't this public knowledge like since before we even knew what the car look liked?

The always did say that the FA20 had the same engine mount spots as the EJ and that swaps could be possible for those that need more power for racing

Or so I vividly remember at least

Thats for the more technical info tho

bambbrose 01-12-2012 02:41 PM
The big question that hasn't been answered is the bellhousing.

Does it bolt up with the AZ6 transmission?

Syldrin 01-12-2012 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Jay (Post 112692)
Don't want to sound like a hater but wasn't this public knowledge like since before we even knew what the car look liked?

The always did say that the FA20 had the same engine mount spots as the EJ and that swaps could be possible for those that need more power for racing

Or so I vividly remember at least

Thats for the more technical info tho
oh i thought there was still confusion on this. no hate recieved jay. i was just throwing it out there.

old greg 01-12-2012 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syldrin (Post 112637)
So i am going to shock this forum and not ask if it's possible to swap other flat 4's in. i am going to tell you it is possible.
Lycoming O-360 FTMFW.

Snoopyalien24 01-12-2012 03:01 PM
Why don't we just ask Greddy to become a member on here? I mean, we are very much interested in this car, and they can help us with any doubts.

Thanks Syldrin for your info :happy0180:

Syldrin 01-12-2012 03:49 PM
i don't know why they don't join here. SL has sponsered dealers and greddy is one. maybe that is why.

WingsofWar 01-12-2012 04:08 PM
i already contacted Greddy/Trust via main site...not through ScionLife. Hopefully I get a response and get some presence here. When we get closer to the launch, i hope we can get some Vendors on here like Greddy for exclusive Member Discounts.

If Greddy does sign up on here, for now it will only be Q&A unless Hachi decides they could be more benefit with their clubmembership here.

As far as the EJ swap...we have already speculated that the swaps were possible including the EZ/ER engine swaps..The only issue we were unsure of that we have discussed in the past was the plumbing and bellhousing.

Syldrin 01-12-2012 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingsofWar (Post 112847)
i already contacted Greddy/Trust via main site...not through ScionLife. Hopefully I get a response and get some presence here. When we get closer to the launch, i hope we can get some Vendors on here like Greddy for exclusive Member Discounts.

If Greddy does sign up on here, for now it will only be Q&A unless Hachi decides they could be more benefit with their clubmembership here.

As far as the EJ swap...we have already speculated that the swaps were possible including the EZ/ER engine swaps..The only issue we were unsure of that we have discussed in the past was the plumbing and bellhousing.
i asked them seeing if they tried to mate the az1 to the EJ

Levi 01-12-2012 05:02 PM
I hope all the quality aftermarket is going to join this forum.

Syldrin 01-12-2012 05:16 PM
i agree levi. it's nice to have manufactures on a forum to give you the inside scoop.

Syldrin 01-12-2012 09:13 PM
Greddy said they didn't try to bolt up the stock tranny but it did look line modification would be required to bolt a az1 to an ej

bambbrose 01-12-2012 09:19 PM
So somebody is going to make a killing on bellhousings in the aftermarket.

I really don't think EJ swaps will be as popular as everyone thinks.

First off, it will be illegal as it is illegal to put a motor in a car that is older than the model year of the car.

Second, the chassis/motor harness is probably completely different. For a race car, that's a non-issue, but street cars are going to have to pass emissions in many areas and it just won't happen.

Third, I bet the new WRX and FA generation turbo motors are going to be much more compatible, and therefore they will slowly transform into the popular swap.

Mitch 01-12-2012 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambbrose (Post 113138)
So somebody is going to make a killing on bellhousings in the aftermarket.

I really don't think EJ swaps will be as popular as everyone thinks.

First off, it will be illegal as it is illegal to put a motor in a car that is older than the model year of the car.

Second, the chassis/motor harness is probably completely different. For a race car, that's a non-issue, but street cars are going to have to pass emissions in many areas and it just won't happen.

Third, I bet the new WRX and FA generation turbo motors are going to be much more compatible, and therefore they will slowly transform into the popular swap.
Agreed, to an extent. There are a few states (e.g. Alabama) you can get away with a swap like this because nobody is checking. I remember two years ago I found a 97 M3 sedan with a euro engine, but because that engine was OBDI (and from a previous year) the swapped car (though tempting) was a no go in Baton Rouge. I *almost* swapped my residency back to Alabama (from Birmingham) for that car, but ultimately I got cold feet. Kind of regret not going for it. But yes, a current generation turbo motor will be the way to go. Can't wait to see these swaps happening. If I really do end up picking up a BRZ, I really will entertain the thought once the kinds are worked out.

Syldrin 01-12-2012 10:48 PM
I agree Plus I really think someone will work out a low pressure turbo system for the car.

ichitaka05 01-12-2012 11:17 PM
I'm going to put EZ30R in there! LMAO just kidding

Snoopyalien24 01-12-2012 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingsofWar (Post 112847)
i already contacted Greddy/Trust via main site...not through ScionLife. Hopefully I get a response and get some presence here. When we get closer to the launch, i hope we can get some Vendors on here like Greddy for exclusive Member Discounts.

If Greddy does sign up on here, for now it will only be Q&A unless Hachi decides they could be more benefit with their clubmembership here.
Thanks Wings. Maybe we could get some discounts, if Hachi allows it, but I mean c'mon, Hachi, he's like too nice lol :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by bambbrose (Post 113138)
I really don't think EJ swaps will be as popular as everyone thinks.

First off, it will be illegal as it is illegal to put a motor in a car that is older than the model year of the car.
Well at least here in South Florida, they could care less what's under the hood. A lot of engine swaps around here that I've heard of.

Levi 01-13-2012 06:11 AM
At least we'll be able to swap the new WRX engine in the BRZ, though I won't.

Infernal 01-13-2012 07:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi (Post 113395)
At least we'll be able to swap the new WRX engine in the BRZ, though I won't.
taking the injectors, manifold, turbo, fmic, ecu and ancilliaries + pipework and other bits from it to mount to the stock motor would probably be much cheaper anyway :P

Mr.Jay 01-13-2012 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambbrose (Post 113138)
So somebody is going to make a killing on bellhousings in the aftermarket.

I really don't think EJ swaps will be as popular as everyone thinks.

First off, it will be illegal as it is illegal to put a motor in a car that is older than the model year of the car.

Second, the chassis/motor harness is probably completely different. For a race car, that's a non-issue, but street cars are going to have to pass emissions in many areas and it just won't happen.

Third, I bet the new WRX and FA generation turbo motors are going to be much more compatible, and therefore they will slowly transform into the popular swap.

Wait I not sure if this is correct as my memory of it is kind of hazy but didn't Subaru say that the new sti and wrx won't be out until 2014/5 and that the 2013 cars would be the same as current gen cars? This would mean you could always use a EJ from a newer WRX/STI

if what I remember is correct that is

arghx7 01-15-2012 12:31 AM
When you do a swap on a modern car you usually have to be concerned about the control units freaking out, especially anything that runs on the CAN bus.

Honesty 01-19-2012 09:43 PM
Putting a 2006 WRX's EJ25 into my buddy's 2000 RS coupe taught me something very important about swaps... You can bolt up everything mechanical in a day. But the wire harness is the true pain in the ass. :bonk:

dabocx 01-19-2012 11:09 PM
In texas no one seems to care. Really EJ swap popularity are going to come down to cost. And i expect it to be very expensive

RegisBou 01-22-2012 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by old greg (Post 112748)
Lycoming O-360 FTMFW.
You a Heli pilot?

Or are those common in single engine Cessna's too?

old greg 01-22-2012 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RegisBou (Post 119623)
You a Heli pilot?

Or are those common in single engine Cessna's too?
They're common in everything . :lol:

But, no. Not a pilot of any kind.

WingsofWar 01-23-2012 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSxJunkie (Post 119718)
This. Who knows what you're going to lose if you try to swap a motor as well. Is the ECU tied to the T/C and VSC? ABS? So on and so forth. Swaps are a pain in the balls. This isn't a Chevelle.
oh god...my first swap ever was pretty easy. It was a VG30DET from a JDM Cedric into my 89 300zx. Only a few pinouts were switched to be accepted by the chassy from the JDM ECU.

Then when i worked at a shop, my first SR20 swap into an s14 was super easy..then came the wiring..cut harness..wtf.....what a nightmare.

Then came me helping out a friend swap a 13bREW into an FC3S...again... wiring nightmare which ended up just going haltec ECU because of the stress...and eliminating nearly 90% of the factory wires.

A friend calls me up last year, asks if i can help swap a VQ37 into his 94 Z32 300zx. I hung up....fuck that shit...

I hate reading wire diagrams and rebuilding harnesses. Even more so...i hate wire tucks......The next time i do a wire tuck....im using Milspec quick release connectors and separating the main harness into 5 different sections. Its more expensive this way..but god it would make life easier.

Syldrin 01-23-2012 12:38 PM
wiring is the bane of most enthusiasts existance.

Homemade WRX 01-23-2012 04:03 PM
Keep in mind the FB has been in current foresters which also housed EZ/EJ engines ;)

No big surprise there. However for those wanting to swap for power, I'd simply wait for the turbo FA16 and FA20 engines to be released. The wiring will probably be much easier...or just buy the turbo BRZ from the factory :happy0180:

The fact that a manufactured turbo, and possibly TRD supercharged, variant is coming out is why I'm not going to bother building a FI setup initially. I'll be worrying about getting NA power out and getting to know the intricasies of the FA engine.

I'm really wanting to see if I can break 300bhp on pump without a lopy idle.

WingsofWar 01-23-2012 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX (Post 120021)
I'm really wanting to see if I can break 300bhp on pump without a lopy idle.
I probably am also going this route, Its going to be fun exchanging notes with you! and the threads for both our builds.

arghx7 01-23-2012 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingsofWar (Post 119903)
oh god...my first swap ever was pretty easy. It was a VG30DET from a JDM Cedric into my 89 300zx. Only a few pinouts were switched to be accepted by the chassy from the JDM ECU.

Then when i worked at a shop, my first SR20 swap into an s14 was super easy..then came the wiring..cut harness..wtf.....what a nightmare.

Then came me helping out a friend swap a 13bREW into an FC3S...again... wiring nightmare which ended up just going haltec ECU because of the stress...and eliminating nearly 90% of the factory wires.

A friend calls me up last year, asks if i can help swap a VQ37 into his 94 Z32 300zx. I hung up....fuck that shit...

I hate reading wire diagrams and rebuilding harnesses. Even more so...i hate wire tucks......The next time i do a wire tuck....im using Milspec quick release connectors and separating the main harness into 5 different sections. Its more expensive this way..but god it would make life easier.
as you've found out, when an engine wasn't designed to be swapped it's a big frickin headache. A counter example would be the current Ford 5.0, which is available as a crate motor with harness and can be used for swaps

WingsofWar 01-23-2012 08:00 PM
:bellyroll:

Homemade WRX 01-23-2012 08:03 PM
:lol:

that's great and always how I've viewed the car.

It would be like taking a Lotus Elise and shoving a great American car in it...without the twin turbos (Hennessy).

Dimman 01-23-2012 08:17 PM
^ You seriously think you can get a streetable 300 crank hp all motor on this? What whp would that be? ~260ish?

Homemade WRX 01-23-2012 08:25 PM
I'm guessing you are asking me? With what I have planned, yes :evil:

I'm the Subaru guy who thinks outside of the box...

Tainen 01-24-2012 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingsofWar (Post 119903)
oh god...my first swap ever was pretty easy. It was a VG30DET from a JDM Cedric into my 89 300zx. Only a few pinouts were switched to be accepted by the chassy from the JDM ECU.

Then when i worked at a shop, my first SR20 swap into an s14 was super easy..then came the wiring..cut harness..wtf.....what a nightmare.

Then came me helping out a friend swap a 13bREW into an FC3S...again... wiring nightmare which ended up just going haltec ECU because of the stress...and eliminating nearly 90% of the factory wires.

A friend calls me up last year, asks if i can help swap a VQ37 into his 94 Z32 300zx. I hung up....fuck that shit...

I hate reading wire diagrams and rebuilding harnesses. Even more so...i hate wire tucks......The next time i do a wire tuck....im using Milspec quick release connectors and separating the main harness into 5 different sections. Its more expensive this way..but god it would make life easier.
I want to watch your build closely. I'm probably staying in the bolt on range, but I am interested in those power levels, depending on how the car handles them. I'm also in the seattle area, so maybe we can compare notes as we do our respective modding... I'm probably doing a white limited BRZ.

WingsofWar 01-24-2012 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tainen (Post 120602)
I'm probably doing a white limited BRZ.
Sweet! seems like lots of people are going White Limited BRZ in seattle area that iv talked to...

Im on the fence of color...they all look soo good.

I might actually pick a color that stands out...even though im usually against loud colors.

Also excited to get together with others like you and have work parties.

Levi 01-25-2012 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX (Post 120209)
I'm guessing you are asking me? With what I have planned, yes :evil:

I'm the Subaru guy who thinks outside of the box...

I am waiting for it. I don't think you'll be the only one to make 300 PS from NA, there will be surely other.


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