Setup Help Please
 

The arrival of my FRS is just around the corner so I thought I'd reach out to the tracksters for some help.

For reference sake I have a long racing background in karting and with the SCCA and want my FRS to be a good practice tool for me between races. I love to drive a race car on the loose side of neutral and want the handling of my FRS to mimic that. However, its also my daily driver so I'm not going to go crazy with it and I won't compete in TT's or autocross with it either so ultimate lap time isn't important to me, only balance on the limit.

My plan is this so far:
Enkei RPF1's in 17x7.5
Mich Super Sports 225/45/17
RCE Yellow springs
Camber bolts(front)
WL rear subframe bushing inserts
RCE Rear sway bar
Perrin catback w/front pipe and over pipe
Motul 600 brake fluid

So am I missing anything?
What should I run for an alignment?

Thanks!

Brake pads.

You may wish to install more fade-resistant, performance brake pads. I have read at least two road tests from major magazines where they found that on a race track the stock pads exhibited significant brake fade in two laps or less. Given what else you’ve modified, and your apparent intended purpose, more appropriate brake pads would seem necessary.

Don't forget to consider the issue of corrosive/damaging brake dust. How frequently are you willing to clean your wheels to protect the clearcoat on the nice Enkeis? Depending on choice of pads, one might find cleaning the wheels on a daily driver to be a nuisance. You're probably well aware of that issue.

I like your choice of wheels, wheel size, and tire size. It gives me the notion that you know what you’re doing. ;)

Assuming the above to be true, then I expect you have a good idea of how to set your alignment to put the finishing touch on your setup to suit your personal handling preference.

You’ve got different springs, a swaybar, and camber bolts, all of which can/will alter the OEM setup, and balance.

I don’t imagine anyone could really help you much with the alignment settings, since you’ll need to drive your car aggressively with the new setup to see how to fine tune the balance to your satisfaction by tweaking the alignment. “Balance on the limit” is your focus, and you’ve declared a preference for “the loose side of neutral.” That’s very personal, and I don’t see how anyone could do that for you.

One man’s “loose” is another man’s crash. :D

I cannot speak from personal experience, but my initial reaction to your idea of a street setup being on “the loose side of neutral” … seems, possibly, unwise or imprudent? But, if I drove your car, setup like that, I might like it. Who knows? :)

P.S. What's your SCCA racing experience?

Porsche
 

Porsche,

I would like to do brake pads but am honestly too lazy to switch them out and can't stand pads that screech in daily driving. The dust doesn't bother me so much though. Is there a relatively trackable pad that doesn't screech terribly?

As far as experience I've run FF2000, and currently SRF plus extensive karting in the past.

Thanks for your input.

You are increasing the rear sway bar without increasing the front? I don't know how much seat time you have but I have found the opposite to be needed. On top of that I believe the spring rates of the RCE's further move the bias rearward from stock springs anyway. Not sure where this line of thinking comes from?

ABQautoxer,

The stock spring rates are approx 130F and 210R and the RCE's are 250F&R so much stiffer front and a bit stiffer rear. This will reduce grip on the front relative to the rear. A stiffer front bar would further exacerbate this as the principle is the same.

The idea would be to stiffen the rear bar to offset the stiffer front springs. I'm hoping that between this and more neg camber on the front which will increase front grip it will be enough to overcome the stiffer front bias of the RCE's.

Sorry I got that backwards. However that very small change wouldn't change my opinion. Increasing the rear bar is a big mistake IMO. I ran stiffer springs than that and while it might feel good at 8/10ths at lower speeds, at 10/10ths that will likely end up poorly balanced. I'm not sure you know realize that 100lbs of spring rate at that level (not enough) won't cause understeer.

While I'm at it. I'll suggest there rest:

Better brake pads is a great point, the OEMs are terrible.

Wheels, I like your choice in wheel but not the size, i would do 17x8 ET45 RPF1. Better fit for the 225 and I dont think it changes the price or weight much if at all.

Front bar, 22mm hollow at a minimum for that rear bar. I would run the 22mm hollow with at stock rear personally.

I agree with you on the rates but the reviews between the FRS and BRZ say how loose the FRS is by comparison and its front springs are only 20lbs softer.. Makes me think the car is very sensative to change. That being the thought I was planning a 3 way rear bar giving the choice of 15,16,17mm rates to the stock bars 14mm. So a subtle 1mm change is possible.

Do you have a suggestion on a trackable pad that doesn't squeal in daily driving?

I see your logic, I'm just saying from experience but I get you seem to have settled on that so let us know how it works out.

Ferodo DS2500

I have Hawk DTC 60's on my car and they don't seem to squeal around town. They do need to be bedded properly first (something I was unable to do on city streets, it took 1/2 of a track session to get them hot enough) Before bedding in the car sounded like a school bus.

I may just do the RCE hollow sway bar set which stiffens front and rear but with the option of 2 adjustments on each end.

In your experience does the car need more overall roll stiffness?

The Ferodo DS2500 don't squeal in daily driving?

I don't know if I would tell people to use that pad on the street. It's operating temps are pretty high (400F on the low end). The DS2500 by comparison starts at 68F.

I never used them on the BRZ, I had them on other cars and did a substantial amount of dual duty with them on the C5 Z06. They did not squeal. They did have dust but it wasn't bad to clean up. There aren't any good pads I know of that won't have that problem.

Yes, especially in the front. They car doesnt feel like it rolls a ton, probably an effect of the COG and its ability to point easily but in the end you'll end up on the bumpstops pretty quickly.

I think if you keep the same ratio of spring rate front/rear--you won't need to mess w/ bars.

The car is plenty loose right out of the box. I would NOT try to accentuate that--or it'll be an exercise in spin-management, IMO...

Great feedback from everyone, thanks!

It was just a data point :) When cold they stop the car just fine, but it's an on-off switch (especially with the stock Michelins). It doesn't take much to engage the ABS. Even so, they are better than the stock pads around town (I really hate the stock pads).

I'll just chime in here with a few tidbits.

1. The Ferodo's rock, I run them on my car (sell them too).

2. I think a 22mm bar (hollow) is the way to go, that's why I build them that way, and you want that on with a stock rear. The 25's and such are just too big.

3. You don't want stiffer rear springs than fronts on this car IMHO.

4. I'm here to help you guys, and to help my business too. I'm up front about it, but the perk is I've got some pretty good, proven experience in driving and setting up cars, particularly RWD cars. :)

5. I cannot tell everyone everything. I do run a business, and a lot of us sell the same brands of parts (except my bar, only I have that)... the difference is the kind of detail and support you get from your vendor. I'm not big, I'm not flashy. I'm just a guy with a small business, who knows how to setup autocross cars, and was serious enough about this one that I went out and bought one sight unseen and traded a car I loved for it.

5a. I can't help you setup stuff you get everywhere else, unless you want to talk a consulting fee. I only mention this because at least twice a week I get messages from folks who tell me "I just got KW's, please help me set them up". I can't. That's part of the service you get with the product.

I also think the stock pads suck. The feel is terrible. They seemed to have decent bite until the tires were upgraded from the idiotic Michelin's. I've tracked my car multiple days on the same set of DS2500's, I've also driven them all winter (they are on the car right now in fact).

I would not recommend running our RCE rear bar without the matching front. If you haven't purchased the bars yet, just run the springs with OEM bars for your first event and see how it feels. You'll like the full set though, and you can adjust the rear to match your preferred balance. But running just the rear is going to be too much.

The Ferodos are good pads.

EDIT: if you're a kart or open wheel guy that prefers a loose car then I don't doubt that you can "commit" in a corner and oversteer will suit you, BUT even so just the rear bar would be too much IMO.

- Andrew

Yeah i would never replace the rear bar only on a rwd car, its not a fwd acura/honda or awd subie that you need help getting the car to rotate. I wouldn't commit to sway bars at all just yet, you may not want to touch the front either if you want to keep it loose.

I'd do a rear bar... but I prefer a looser car :)

The DS2500 is a great mixed light-duty pad, but if you plan on tracking, you'll be better off stepping up. It only lasts for a few laps at best, even with the AP Racing BBK.

That's the common thought. I almost always replace just the rear bar first in a RWD car.. ;) Don't be like me though... unless you like loose wome.. err cars..