Unacceptable: Toyota/Subaru among group of auto manufacturers supporting SOPA.
 

Source: Jalopnik

The Auto Alliance trade group comprises of the following:

• BMW Group (BMW, Mini, Rolls Royce)
• Chrysler Group (Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Jeep)
• Ford Motor Company (Ford,Lincoln)
• General Motors (Chevy, Buick, Cadillac, GMC)
• Jaguar Land Rover
• Mazda
• Mercedes-Benz USA (Mercedes Benz, SMART, Maybach)
• Mitsubishi
• Porsche
• Toyota (Toyota, Scion, Lexus, Subaru)
• Volkswagen (Volkswagen, Audi, Bentley)
• Volvo

This group has thrown its support being SOPA, or the Stop Online Piracy Act. Wording in this bill would put the enthusiast community abroad, from automotive news blogs to forums like our own, on a knife's edge where a single copyrighted image or link to copyrighted material without the copyright holder's consent puts the entire website at risk for being shut down without notice or immediate review.

Stop Toyota and Subaru from killing us. Please contact Toyota NA and Subaru NA immediately to let them know how this bill affects you and your decisions to purchase from them.

If Toyota / Subaru continue their support of this bill, I doubt I will be purchasing any of their upcoming products. I would much rather spend my money on a new or used product from a competitor who doesn't actively attempt to kill the online community of enthusiasts who love their products.

At this moment I am NOT "Proud of Boxer".

I don't know if there's a US specific section of this site, but that's where this belongs.

I've actually been concerned with the reproduction of material on this site. I know nothing of the US bill of which you speak, but I know what happens when things that cost money to produce are given away for free.

A short term win results in the long term lose.

1. There is not a forum that captures all of the US simultaneously. There are US regions, but that would mean having multiple reposts across those forums.

2. The implications of this blacklisting are still not well understood. It could stand to reason that a website hosted in the United States and blocked by the United States would in turn no longer be accessible to anyone in the world.

Are there any manufacturers that aren't on that list? Looks like you are stuck with Nissan.

Could this effect sites that are hosted in Australia that post US materials? or will Australia be effect also(No idea about this kinda stuff)

lol Nissan probably haven't replied yet...

Honda & Suzuki too

Btw when they gonna vote on this SOPA thing?

Then there should be.

If those websites wish to be viewed in the US, they would have to take much, much more aggressive policies towards moderating user generated content. There's the additional concern that if this passes in the US, it could spread to other countries wishing to do business with the US via the internet.

This topic has come up multiple times. I am not an Administrator, but the Admin is aware of the issue. I think they're waiting for the dust to settle after the official release before restructuring the site.

From the look of that list, you won't be buying anything if that is the case. :respekt:

Honestly, no one reads or cares about legislation anymore: neither the lobbies that support or oppose legislation nor the legislators. You'll notice high-profile companies that originally supported SOPA are quietly backing down (Sony, Nintendo, EA, Apple, Microsoft, etc.) not due to consumer market pressure, but because after reading the bill they realized it hurts their ability to advertise and compete (read= make money).

A great example would be this very site: had a law similar to SOPA been in effect in 2008, the 86/FR-S/BRZ would not exist. Blogs wouldn't speak of it, social media wouldn't say a peep, and "fan-sites" such as this wouldn't exist. There would be no buzz, and thus, there would be no car. FWIW I believe the 86/FR-S/BRZ is the only other major product besides the iPhone to have this much hype surrounding it for this length of time (about 4 years now). Apple built interest in the iPhone through rumors, half-truths, and strategic leaks to various blogs and through social media. If AS1 launch is a success, you'll see that list of auto manufacturers shrink; if they actually read the bill rather than rely on their lobby group, they'll reconsider their support as other major corporations have.

Everyone would potentially be affected if the material can be linked to the U.S. at any point.

Oh right on all points. Except know who doesn't currently support SOPA?

Honda, Kia, Hyundai, and Suzuki to name a few. Have you seen the offerings from Kia and Hyundai lately? I'd have a hard time picking between those and their competitors as it is. The fact that I'm philosophically opposed to their competitors makes it a lot easier to get a Hyundai Veloster Turbo as a DD and get an S2000 project car just to never have to give another dollar to a company who would jump on a legislative bandwagon without taking a moment to ponder if they themselves would even exist had an environment like that existed at their inception.

This is the 1st step of gadget world taking over automotive world. Those auto companies have something better to do. I thought those images they made are for advertising, why would people pay for it?

Interesting you mention these names...

Only the games sections are backing down... the music and movies ones are standing strong for SOPA.

As these are the industries apparently loosing the most money because of torrents and alike.

I am curious why they put Subaru under Toyota as it isn't really a brand/division of Toyota like Chevy/Buick/GMC are of General Motors. Is it only cause Toyota owns a percentage of Subaru? Is it cause of the partnership? Did Subaru them selves also support SOPA on their own, or is it just due to association with Toyota?

Yes I think it is cause Toyota own the majority share.

They haven't voted yet. Right now there's rumors going around that Google, Facebook, Wikipedia, and Twitter are organizing a black out day. All those companies will shut down their sites in order to protest SOPA and hopefully get people to open up their eyes to what the government is trying to do.

Lots of countries already have laws like sopa. They used it to block the pirate bay in many countries. The ft86 and this website still exist in those countries. I don't support sopa (it's a clear violation of the first amendment and wouldn't hold up in court anyways) but people are overreacting to it. The law is aimed at sites like the pirate bay and is not going to "destroy the Internet," but they need to make the law more specific so it can't be used that way. They also need to find a way to enforce it which is impossible due to the open nature of the Internet, so the whole thing is really just a waste of time.

I don't think it is majority share; wouldn't it rather be classified largest singly-held share? Majority would dictate 51%. Toyota owns how much, like 17%?

But how am I suppose to watch Top Gear UK if I can't use a torrent! ;)

Edit: 17% share that Toyota hold is the biggest single share of FHI(typo).
(thanks ryude for a head up.)

Correct, largest single share of HFI. But still not majority held. 51%= majority.

But as long as no combined share larger than the one Toyota hold, they are making decision.

Thanks for the info

That's the thing, every time they shut down a torrent site a new one will pop up. Instead of going after the torrent sites they should just find a way to provide the movies, shows, and music in a better way that still allows the content creators to get paid (they can start by firing all the lawyers). Their approach of trying to sue everyone and everything is never going to have any effect.

FHI = Fuji Heavy Industries

Judging from the mass about-face and statements from Microsoft and others, I'd gather the bill is poorly written to not take into account now common forms of communication. Remember, this is being debated and voted upon by people that still call it "the internets" that have assistants to check their electronic mail.

That said, I doubt it will get any traction between threats of bi-monthly government shut downs and hearings over recess appointments. Oh... and that pesky election.

For controlling interest in a company it would normally be 50% + 1.


http://lexicon.ft.com/Term?term=controlling-shareholder


17% does not give you control of the company as there is 83% of the shares still out there. Also depends on the company if you need a 50% +1 to pass a motion or if you need the super-majority of 2/3rds to back a motion. 17% ≠ majority share holder. It does equal largest single-owned group of shares.


Back on topic, I hope SOPA never gets passed as it is too much government control in our lives.

This SOPA thing isn't going to happen lol, chill.

Here is the breakdown of FHI's ownership. The next largest owner after Toyota is only 4.4%

http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/ir/share_info/share.html

When shareholders meet, they all have voting rights according to the number of shares they hold. 83.52% > 16.48%.


A theoretical example would be TMC putting forth a motion to take control over Subaru and make it their sporty/outdoor/active lifestyle brand. They would put that forth to voting and the shareholders would vote yes or no. So all of Toyota's share's would vote yes (16.48%), but say all the other shareholders vote no (83.52%) since it would hurt the company (FHI) and their profit margin, brand image and companies long term plan. So the motion would not pass, even if Toyota owns the largest singly-owned group of shares since there are more shares outside of their own who also have voting power.

I'd bet that money that unless some of the "big boys" of the internet don't take some drastic steps to get people to protest this thing that it will get passed with hardly anyone knowing about it.

Yeah I agree. Just like the Patriot Act got passed without anyone really knowing anything about it. From what I remember back 10 years ago, I believe the Patriot Act got voted on the same month as the anthrax attacks on the House/Senate. I remember some congress members stating they really didn't have time to read it over due to everything going on and just decided to vote in favor since it sounded like a good idea without reading the complete bill.

Your right. It's at least 51% of overall share for final decision. Sorry about some confusion.

Back to the topic. I hope so too since I don't like the idea one bit.

The question regarding the SOPA is how does it affect the automakers to support it? Are they really affected by electronic pirating/copy-right material? I could understand movie companies, recording labels, artists, game developers...etc. Is this just the corporate powerhouses taking the easy line and just supporting it so they follow the others? I doubt this was put up to vote to the board/shareholders. If anything it was maybe a CEO/VP or PR person who decided to publicly state their opinion on the matter. Not sure we should take it as the whole companies viewpoint.

LOL, I wonder if they give right to big stockholders to vote?

who cares

Fuji Heavy Industries is not a member of the Auto Alliance. How hard is it to Google this shit?

Correct, but the friend (and partial owner) of my enemy is my enemy. Pressure on Subaru and Toyota exerts more pressure on Toyota than pressuring Toyota alone.

So what can be done?

especially if it can effect stuff in Australia as well I don't want that shit to spread!