Evo Review: BRZ + GT86
 

Source: GCF (enzx)

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awesome article!! thanks for scanning and sharing :)

WTF? This is the exact opposite situation with Top Gear's review. Where Subaru allowed the BRZ to be flogged on a real track and Toyota had the 86 on the go-kart track.

Early 2013 for STI hmmm. To wait or not to wait? I think having the first model is going to be a gem among the future brz's

Yeah... I found that odd about the TG review considering all of the other reviewers seemed to have had a similar experience to Evo's.

Interesting how they mention there are no plans to increase power output on the potential 2013 STi version.. reduced weight is nice and all but doesn't justify waiting a year for a lot of potential buyers like a turbo would. Makes me feel better about ordering one in May :)

Thank you for the scans; they made a lovely morning read.

I also find it humorous that the evo review from the Subaru "chaperoning" viewpoint is the opposite of the Top Gear one. Both reviews seemly overly positive and that's good.

The blurb about TRD creating an "after factory" supercharger kit slightly alleviates the need to wait for the 2nd or 3rd year to get the more powerful car; buy an FR-S/GT86/BRZ now and in a year's time a bolt-on, factory warrantied supercharger kit will be available. It's good to have options like that.

Good read.
Yep like you guys said no need to wait for a more powerful version. A year down the line both companies will take care of that. BRZ STI would be nice but to be honest I like my carpeting and all tat stuff they would take out to save weight, this will be my DD so dont need all that stuff, adding more power down the line is just fine with me. Trading up in 3 or 4 years is what I will do if needs be lol.

I wonder how much the supercharger would cost? If it's priced no higher than $3500 with gains of 40hp/40tq I am down.

Sounds about right. 260hp is my magic number boosted or NA lol

I can easily imagine the following discussion taking place in Top Gear's redaction:
I don't quite trust Subaru insisting on how little work had Toyota done, and conclusions like "they are the same car, but Subaru's so much better". Toyota seems more open minded about this, talking about team work and such. Since the car has components from both I'd rather go with the "team work" story.

Blame Toyota for that. Subaru held to the assumed bargain and didn't discuss it.. until Toyota started trying to claim all of the credit. Subaru just reacted.

Granted, they could have handled it a little better, but the proof is in the car proving Subaru to be the correct side of the arguement.

I agree. Im not asking for a muscle car figure. Just something that would make it a blast on regular roads.

Dave-ROR: Does it matter who started it? Yes, it has lots of Subaru components but still - Toyota did more than just the design. And yes, they also tested it (unless they lied).

Whatever there beef is I hope it doesnt cause them to split thier partnership no time soon. I want this car to be here for decades and be somewhat of a legend like the AE86 did. However if the partnership broke down i hope Toyota has the balls to make new motor and keep it going.

Show me their test mules? Subaru has 4. Eventually this topic will need to be resolved, until then lets be happy its finally built. I hope it doesnt reign like the ae86, that was a corolla that didnt stick around long or have direct performance intentions.

Exactly..while the AS1 started out as a shell harboring the soul of the AE86, in order for it to become legendary in todays standards it needs to evolve beyond that. The potential for virtually ANYTHING can come up for the future with this car, but if Toyota and Subaru keep pushing its original philosophy across 3-5 generations or models it might flounder and threaten its place in history.

I'm not so sure your Subaru BRZ factory warranty would be honored if you installed a TRD performance part :iono:

I hope I'm wrong, or maybe SPT/STi offer a similar kit because I'm leaning BRZ also, but I don't think it will work out like that.

People have a lot of misconceptions on how mods affect factory warranties.

If you install and after market intake/Exhaust/lowering springs. It in no way invalidates your factory warranty. Obviously the warranty only covers factory parts, aftermarket parts would be covered under their own manufacturer's warranty.

In order to deny warranty repairs to your vehicle, the dealership would have to show that the aftermarket part was the cause of the factory parts failure (as outlined in the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act).

If they refuse to repair your car without valid reason (many dealers hate doing warranty repairs since they don't make as much money). Simply repair it elsewhere or out of pocket and file a suit in small claims (if under your states limit) and write/email corporate to report the dealer. Most manufactures take these incidents very seriously and will step in on your behalf.

I had an issue once at a Toyota dealer where they were refusing warranty repair on a covered part. instead of paying I told them to stuff it and called corporate, before they pulled my car around a dealer PR agent was sitting next to me promising the world to make me happy.

It is important to understand your rights as a consumer, no need to be mean to dealers. But you often have to know when to stand your ground etc.

Cheers for sharing the article Boxer-4, another great read!

good read

I do find it weird tho that Subaru and Toyota are taking turns at this go karting track and putting limits of the test drivers then switching places at a actually track and letting them loose

There is also the story floating around that Subaru had no faith in Toyota's sports car ability (despite the clear fact that the LFA is beyond anything Subaru could even imagine, let alone design and build) so Toyota hacked up that Impreza mule to show Subaru how it was done. Then Subaru was like "Hey, we can do that!"










(And the sibling rivalry continues... heh.)

Wasn't that a Legacy mule?

It's not just Subaru. If this car was a Toyota, it would be twice as expensive and half as good. The "wonderful" LFA only supports such an assertion.

Toyota made a smart business decision and became and appliance company. No shame in that, but trying to claim credit for what they obviously didn't do is not cool.

They should have just taken the car from Subaru, said thank you and then let their marketing clout do the work. Just because you're big enough to get away with anything, doesn't mean you should.

And if this car was a Subaru, it would have AWD and turbo, it would be named Impreza and would be priced as such. But it isn't - why? ;)

You're right, because Subaru's engineers are completely incapable of creating a RWD vehicle, NA powered, or coming up with a name other than Impreza (even if the name is terrible) without Toyota's help... /sarcasm.

Subaru is a niche brand that is attempting to expand their lineup of vehicles. Toyota is a mainstream brand that has lost their niche vehicles (many of which are what inspire Toyota loyalists - I don't know anyone who says "OMG I could never own another midsize sedan because my Camry is SO EXCITING").

They worked together, no matter in what capacity or percentage of contribution from each company, and came up with a vehicle that we are all hoping to love as they continue to nurture and develop the platform.

I don't understand all the hate, we should all be :happy0180: that we're SO close to release!

Both brands tested it. Subaru had more mules though.

Both definately had a role in fine tuning it.

Toyota set the production goals and design goals. They also designed the styling of the car. Subaru did the engineering. Toyota helped with parts supplies from vendors Subaru doesn't normally use, but Subaru definately did the lions share of the engineering and mechanical work, there's really not much point in argueing about it.

can always count on Evo mag for a good read; straight forward, to the point. it will be interesting to see how the collaborative roots of the AS1 will effect it's future in how either car preforms in the market, and ultimately Subaru's prosperity or lack thereof as a brand in the future being that it is currently the sole producer of the AS1 platform.

Maybe Subaru won't warranty a TRD supercharger but I foresee SPT or STI offering the kit as well with their own branding.

It doesn't much matter to me though; I'm about 80% sold on the FR-S.

Nice read thanks for posting. Like others said it sounds like the opposite of what went on in the top gear review which was kind of weird. In any case regards of the badge the car is going to be a good car. And I have to say this; toyota hasn't had anything sporty or awe-inspiring in years that the majority of people can buy (LFA=almost no one is getting that), while subaru has still been churning out great performance cars. But I am happy that Toyota and Subaru are working together on the car to produce something great. I completely agree with Dave-ROR.

Please tell me, where did I said they are "completely incapable"? But first, they would have to come up with the idea (of making a non-AWD car)
OTOH coyote said Toyota is completely incapable of making a car as good as the 86 (twice the price, half as good).

You're misreading my posts; I have nothing against Subaru and I certainly don't hate them; I just don't believe this "we did all the important work" is accurate (even if it's a retaliation for earlier Toyota comments).
It's me who doesn't understand why the hate against Toyota. And those frictions between Subaru and Toyota saddens me...

Magnuson-Moss Act only applies to the U.S. there is a whole big world outside of the rebellious colonies ;)


And even in the states, some people don't want to go through the hassle and time of arguing with their local dealer, finding someone else to do the repairs, and then having to sue over something that should have been covered in the first place,

It should be as easy as, "Hey mate can you fix my Subaru, and oh by the way I have a Toyota performance part, installed by a Toyota dealer, on my engine that's also stamped Toyota. That's not going to be a problem right? No, great"

That's why I agree with keiri

Maybe Subaru will allow TRD to do all of the R&D on the power adding FI kit and have STi focus on weight savings with both companies sharing the results and rebranding them in the end. SPT/STi will get a version of the supercharger kit and TRD will get the carbon fiber roof, hood, lightweight materials etc.

Ha! Made me chuckle :)

Now this is an intriguing concept. One I quite like the sound of.

Now that is something I think we could all get behind because everyone would win. Note to Toyota and Subaru: Do it. Thank you.

No doubt it is very expensive, it's an almost totally bespoke car. However, What exactly is the LFA half as good as?

So many hate on that car just because they can't afford it or can't wrap their minds around it's "razon d'etre". I'm pretty sure you've not seen one in the flesh much less drive one, so I'd take the word of people who actually have, over yours. Some of the top guys in the industry seem to think it's pretty bad ass.

Chris Harris Twitter:
"LFA just gets better and better. @****ieMeaden was right, it's better than a GTO.

No need to try and pull it down, and it's absolutely retarded to say "Toyota couldn't do "x".

I have no interest in the LFA, just as I have no interest in the Veyron. Show me a car that through clever engineering is more than its price tag or the sum of its parts and I'm impressed. Open cheque book engineering might wow the school kids, but it's not really innovative in the true sense of the word.

Such cars are the Elise, Cayman, MX5 and here we have something called the XR6T that beat their competitors through out thinking (rather than just outspending) them and they are interesting. Even things like the Gallardo or GTR punch above their weight. I'd not really call the GTR clever though.

Had Toyota been able to deliver the LFA as a profitable vehicle that they could have sold at a competitive price to Ferraris and Lambos, then I would have agreed that it was an achievement.

It is however, a pointless exercise in unimaginative largess. A corporate wank. And yes, it does demonstrate that they have no longer have any idea how to deliver anything but appliances.

The Subaru article wasn't too bad of a review as the Top Gear one. I believe Subaru only did what they did due to their perception of the weather at the time. Wouldn't want any accidents or liability issues when their reports are crashing cars in the rain. Evo did a very neutral review and said they believe the car is great but wouldn't make any conclusions due to not having enough time on it.

Well written and I completely agree with you. One reason why the AS1 is such a cool car delivering great COG, road feel, balance at an affordable price. Might not be fast in a straight line, but you will have a smile in the twisties and at the track.

Disagree. Even Tada disagrees with your assertion:

"We could not have built the car if we'd followed normal Toyota procedure.".

Sounds clear cut to me from even Tada's viewpoint.



http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3157

Fail. Even the few words, out of context quote doesn't say "we are incompetents, no matter what we do we can't build such a car".
Let's re-word a little bit Tada-san's quote:
"We could have build this car if we didn't follow normal Toyota procedure".
Which actually means:
"Build by passion, not by committee". And they did exactly that.

Nobody would be able to deliver a LFA as a profitable vehicle while selling it at a competitive price to Ferraris and Lambos. IMO.
Maybe, if they would use steel and aluminium instead of carbon fibre (alongside other modifications). But then, it wouldn't be a LFA.