Allstate Drivewise?
 

Recently got an email from my insurance company for a program called the Drivewise program. They send you a device that you plug into a ODBII port and it records the miles you drive per day, the speed, and events such as hard braking hard cornering etc, and wireless uploads the data to the insurance company. They claim they can give you discounts on your premium rates if you enroll in this program and have safe driving habbits, though some of the restrictions are a little deep. I live in NYC and usually stay out at nights, not even to party but just out with friends until 4-5AM. It says you will receive a greater discount for not driving between the hours of 11PM-5AM. (WTF?).

At first I thought this was a good idea to reduce my rates, but then I saw some of the restrictions and terms. They may use the information in a legal dispute, and 3rd parties will have access to the information whether you life it or not. Some of the other terms made it start to seem like it was entering the realm of privacy invasion.. Was wondering if anyone had any experience with this before I started plugging this adapter in.

Don't feed the pigs! I tried this once and never again.

any insight as to why?

After a short period of time (less than a few weeks on the car), I asked the insurance co about whether they would ever use the data to *increase* my rates. At that time, they would not confirm or deny. I would rather pay extra than have someone track how I drive and potentially use that info with "affiliates".

This was almost 3-4 years ago on a diff car. It was cutting edge.

I think the idea here is that they want to make these devices the new norm, getting people used to them (so that the rates they get today would only be valid with this device). These things have cellular chips built into them and they upload the data to their servers. One day, I predict (IMO) that you will get worse rates than you have today, unless you opt for the device.

Stage 2 (OBD3?) may force integration of these devices into the ECU. The power is with the people to prevent this.. (Note: I am well aware of the black box that we already have.. Just no cellular *yet*.)

Run forest run...don't do it.

This is just a ploy by the insurance companies to get a bunch of people using this invasive tracker so they can go lobby the government to make this a mantatory requirement to get car insurance. They will claim they can lower customers rates and improve safety. Bull$hit...they just want to track you so they have excuses to raise rates and deny coverage in certain cases.

The more people who sign up for this, the more the insurance industry will try to make this mandatory for rest of us.

Send it back.

Nobody has to LOBBY government when they OWN government.

Financial control = Slavery .. and we are all being herded whether you like it or not. The proof is in the warnings of past great men..

Agreed. And those who willingly sign up for this scam are the sheeps leading us to the slaughter house.

These things have/will have SoC's built into them with accelerometers, GPS, cellular and GOD knows what other IC's or integration. None of this benefits you as the driver.

The purpose of the corporation (sole purpose) is to increase profits for its stakeholders at any/anybody's expense. This device is meant to increase profit by taking advantage of the human being's animalistic nature. They know you will drive aggressively, forgot to slow down, brake hard, experience road rage, etc. They are counting on it to happen (calculated behavior actually), with the punishment being higher rates for you. The only winners are the stakeholders in increased profits. This system is designed to fuck the consumer.

EXACTLY!

Thank you.

What is voluntary today will become “mandatory” tomorrow.

Once these monitoring devices become the “new normal,” those who decline to submit to this sacrifice of privacy and freedom, this tyranny, will be “given the option” of insuring at an astronomical rate, or having no insurance at all.

Only an utter fool would see it otherwise. By the time the fools awaken, it will be too late.


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“If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will Lose its freedom and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money that it values more, it will lose that, too.”
- W. Somerset Maugham (English novelist, 1874-1965)

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What happens when you go to a track day / AutoX? I have probably never gone over 45mph at an autocross, but you still are full on the brakes and gas the whole time. That's my big question....

Back then (3-4 years ago), when I asked the insurance co what happens if I go to a track/racing, they had no feedback on that. I was being stonewalled. I went around my own question by asking if I could just pull the device out of the OBD2 port whenever I wanted. The rep immediately became defensive and told me that if you pull the device out for any "significant" period of time, it invalidates your "potential rate savings". It tracks how long it has been on the car. If you pull it out, they assume you are up to no good. Edit: Btw, the OBD2 port still has power even when the ignition is off.

If this isn't control on the finest of scales, I don't know what is. LOL.

And your big answer is that your rates will go up dramatically.

The GPS will know your location and exactly what you were doing. And the best part is that you original policy terms will give them the right to change the rate of the policy based on the tracking data. Thier internal software will immediately email you the next day letting you know that your monthly premium has increased, without requiring additional human capital on thier end = high profits indeed!

This is a case of the spider inviting the fly into his web. Do not go there.

interesting inputs. definitely appreciate it, especially since I saw no posts at all supporting it. lol. Anyway, I opted out of the program before i made the posts, I just wanted to see what other opinions were on this. I was reading through the terms and I saw the legal aspect of it and allowing it to be used in legal disputes, and I'm like "screw this" and hit decline. Glad I did.

this is why you build classic cars, WTF is OBD?

OBD = On-Board Diagnostics. The OBD access port is just above your shins, under the dash, when you are sitting in the driver's seat. That is where you normally interface with the computer (ECU) when logging data, flashing, troubleshooting, etc.

it was a joke... lol classic cars dont have OBD, 2 allstate needs a OBD plug in for it to work, 3 no OBD mean they cant do it even if they make it mandatory

Everyone should avoid this. Your insurance companies are thinking big picture with an eventuality of ubiquity insomuch they could write a bill that would mandate devices like this.

Google, Facebook, Progressive Snapshot, Drivewise... Sheeze.. George Orwell must be rolling in his grave right now.

haha.. sorry

internet without body language sucks ;)

Okay, now that we have unanimously agreed that these black boxes are no good for our hooning tendencies (and @Rampage did so in a particularly poet way), my question is this:

Aren't these prevalent in the UK and elsewhere abroad? Just curious if some of our members outside USA have experience with this stuff.

Dumb question...but could they require you to add one to a classic car, or they come up with some similar device that would retro fit a classic car?

Put one in a do some drifting and top speed runs, report back

It's big brother. They can use it to raise your rates too. If you take more left turns than right it's considered more risky and they will raise your rates as just ONE example. Fuck that shit yo.

Yes they can, then we use gps to our advantage and spell out "FUCK YOU" in a parking lot, that should get the msg out pretty clearly to the insurance companies, also i would be buying multiple ecus for track duty so they can't track me

:laughabove:

Yea the after market for "tricking" the system will be huge.
I can see my "tracked" ECU sitting on the garage bench plugged into an outlet right now.... :D

Oh wow.. You guys are clever with the multiple ECU thing.. Haha :)

Fucking Flo from progressive started it all. Damn slut.

I work in Insurance and the last meeting I had talked about these things. Said they are only used for lowering rates and not increasing. I think there may be lawsuits if there is doubt that is used for other reasons.

Three questions:

What is the data retention policy of your organization?

Who owns the data?

Is the data exempt from inquiry by any government entity?

Or vice versa. Plug your factory ECU into a box that makes it think the car is enjoying super-safe driving during the lowest risk hours, on the lowest risk roads, with gentle throttle input and cautious braking applications... :bellyroll:

Problem with this comes when the insurance company decides to sue you for fraud.

Okay back to not getting the box in the first place. :D

:happy0180:

GregV, ladies and gentlemen. GregV. :D

No offensive, but just lowering rates is not the goal. Maybe that's what they are telling you in a meeting, but behind closed doors they are planning so much more.

This is very similar to tiered data plans by the cell phone companies. (Charge based on behavior) The insurance company that does not require this in the future will be the big winner.

Bingo!

Sigh. We are all getting hosed by these huge companies. :( :brokenheart:

It's coming and what's sad is America is full of very stupid people who are eager to sign away thier (and ultimately our) privacy to save a few bucks...at least in the beginning.

Check out this survey done by Towers Waters, a global leader in insurance consulting. This is the same firm that helped promote and implement this technology oversees.

@Tt3Sheppard what your company is telling you in meetings is pure BS...
89% of the respondents said they plan to use this technology in rating your insurance...it's coming folks...tell all your friends to "just say no"

http://www.towerswatson.com/en/Press...rs-Watson-Surv

NEW YORK, February 6, 2012 — Predictive modeling continues to gain momentum among North American property & casualty (P&C) insurers, according to findings from global professional services company Towers Watson’s (NYSE, NASDAQ: TW) third predictive modeling survey. The findings show that while the potential to advance critical areas of P&C pricing and risk assessment through predictive modeling is not as mature in commercial lines as it is in personal lines, commercial lines adoption will continue to accelerate over the next two years.

The survey revealed that nearly all (97%) U.S. personal lines respondents said they view sophisticated underwriting and risk selection as essential or very important. As such, the majority of U.S. personal lines insurers are already committed to predictive modeling, with approximately 85% saying they use or are planning to use it. Further, while standard commercial lines insurers have lagged their personal lines counterparts in recognizing the importance of moving to adopt predictive modeling, those carriers are now actively adopting the technique, with roughly 70% indicating they either currently use or plan to use it in underwriting, risk selection, rating and/or pricing within the next two years.

“The optimism expressed by the senior executives responding to the survey suggests the range of future uses for predictive modeling is broad, and will include not only pricing and product innovation but also new refinements in areas such as underwriting, risk selection, claim applications and target marketing,” said Brian Stoll, Towers Watson director and the survey’s coauthor. “There is a good reason for optimism: An increasing number of survey participants that use predictive modeling report it is improving both their top- and bottom-line results. This profitability improvement encourages P&C insurers to find even more ways to extend predictive modeling applications and further access the benefits it can offer.”

While standard commercial insurers currently using predictive modeling are in the more modest 25% - 41% range (indicating significant growth from a year ago), those planning to start programs are in a more robust 31% - 48% bracket. Part of the motivation for the aggressive plans of commercial insurers is likely explained by concern they expressed in survey responses about the ability of the standard industry class plans and exposure bases to appropriately segment individual risks, in that predictive modeling provides the path to more accurate pricing.

The greatest growth potential appears to be concentrated in the commercial property, commercial multiperil (CMP) and business owner policy (BOP) lines of business, where nearly half (48%) of respondents indicate they intend to implement predictive modeling for risk selection and/or pricing. Commercial automobile carriers are also showing interest, with 37% responding that they plan to use predictive modeling.

Insurers using predictive modeling also said it is pivotal in achieving both strong top- and bottom-line results. Bottom-line benefits of rate accuracy, loss ratio improvement and improved profitability all received positive responses of nearly 75% or more from survey participants. Furthermore, over a third to nearly half of respondents also cited additional positive impacts on the top line from expansion of underwriting appetite, improved renewal retention and increased market share.

“What’s important to note is that these percentages are up about 10% to 20% over last year’s results, indicating the enduring sustainable benefits of predictive modeling,” said Klayton Southwood, a senior consultant at Towers Watson.

Leading personal auto lines insurers that committed to predictive modeling early in its development are actively adding depth to their programs by introducing or expanding their use of telematics — the technology of sending, receiving and storing information via telecommunication devices. Currently, personal lines respondent carriers that use telematics are focusing on only a few areas, including measurement of annual mileage, tracking how and when a vehicle is being driven, who is driving the vehicle and where it is being driven.

However, more expansive plans are under way, according to the survey, with 89% of personal lines respondents that either currently use or plan to use telematics planning to use the data prospectively in rating, and 83% planning to use it to provide information to insureds to help improve driving behavior. Commercial carriers’ use of telematics is focused on the same four areas mentioned earlier: 87% of commercial lines respondents that currently use or plan to use telematics have plans to track mileage, where and when the vehicle is being driven, as well as who is driving the vehicle, the survey indicated.

Ever seen the movie Idiocracy..?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy