Berk vs. Works (AB-R) Muffler Delete
 

Hi all,

So I'm considering getting one of these two muffler deletes but don't know which one to get :(. I've searched through threads on each and I can't get a definitive answer on which one might suit my preferences more. I guess I'm really just looking for input from someone who has maybe heard both in person (I know, a long shot...). I guess I'll throw out some questions and see if any of you have input :).

Which one is louder?

Which one has less drone?

Do either add any power, be it small?

Which is lighter?

Which seems like it would be more tolerable for daily driving? (I know the works is resonated, but I have faith Berk's isn't too bad)

If any of you have input I would greatly appreciate :). I plan to pull the trigger SOON! Thanks!

The Berk is stainless (not sure what grade) and has Tig welds. Nicer than works aluminized steel and mig welds.

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Not to mention... cheaper.

I do agree, it is cheaper and the quality seems like it would be better on the Berk delete, but the other attributes are going to play into my decision a lot. I want something that is loud, doesn't drone too much (or at all), saves some weight and looks good :).

I'd go with the WORKS AB-M, then. It's got a small muffler and doesn't drone at all while maintaining the deep throaty sound, just not quite as loud.

The WORKS AB-R is resonated but I've read a review or two that there's still a little bit of drone in the mid range, but nowhere near as much as the Berk.

The Berk dual delete is pretty droney when you're in the midrange and off throttle. It's manageable with throttle input, but might annoy you after a while if you can't get used to it. You can always have a $50 resonator welded in to the Berk if you end up wanting to get rid of most of the drone. If you plan on running other exhaust mods with the Berk, you can bet on it being obnoxiously loud, too loud for the street, IMO.

If all you care about is weight savings and construction quality, then get the Berk.

I have the berk dual tip muffler delete. It drones at 2k and around 4k. It was much louder when i first got it but after around 300 miles it has quieted down noticeably. I personally don't mind the drone but for those looking for a quiet exhaust this is not the solution. It does have an awesome growl though love going between big buildings and tunnels to really hear it. As for power I don't think it does much if any.

i have the nameless track pipe..it is awesome. i have a sound clip from my cell phone and you really cannot hear it at all till you give the car throttle at highway speeds. There is a slight drone from 2k-2.7k but thats it.

BERK is louder

WORKS has no drone

Power wise, both should be the same

WORKS is more for daily driving.

here is a thread for the BERK and people complaining about the unbearable drone ---> http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...highlight=berk

their solution was to put a resonator just like the WORKS AB

the old version of AB-R has little drone. the new ones dont :thumbsup:


o yeah im pretty sure youll love your AB-M!

Looking forward to getting my AB-M shortly.

Here's a vid of it (WORKS AB-M) for those curious:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELMIQn_Y7Co"]FR-S Works Axle-Back Exhaust - YouTube[/ame]

i got the Berk, and I love it... but... and there is a big but... it is not for everyone...

i wanted it to be loud, to feel the presence of the exhaust... and it is loud. in fact, it seems more loud when you're inside the car, than for the other cars/houses/ pedestrian...

i was surprised when i heard it the first time I gave my keys to a friend to listen from the outside... and i was pleased to realise that Cops won't be an issue with the noise.

But from a Driver perspective, it sounds like if you're always about to squeeze every inch of power on your throttle pedal... :)

super quick install, great quality product so far, a bit droney when you cruise at a regular speed... but...I love it... and for power.. no idea really, still on winter tire for another month, hard to butt dyno test!

if you're really not sure about how you like to be in a car that does noise.. go with the other one (as it seems to have a small muffler)... if you like noise... Berk is your choice

by the way, just to avoid confusion here, we only call it WORKS AB not "AB-R"

Ill be getting one of these WORKS ones now. Don't know which one @ATL BRZ

I'd go with the AB if you plan on keeping everything else in the exhaust stock, AB-M if not.

That's the thing... Idk if I'm eventually getting a mid pipe or not

AB-M is the safest option IMHO :thumbsup:

But I love the delete sound ughhhh I'm so indecisive.... Heads or tails... Haha

If you're considering something muffled the nameless axleback is better than both of those. Better sound, better steel, and better welds. They also have a dual exit muffler delete. It's more expensive than the other 2 but you get what you pay for. If this is your daily I wouldn't consider anything that's aluminized steel.

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All opinions, and off topic at that, but hey, thanks. I don't get why some people think mig welded aluminized steel with a coating on top is going to just fall apart, lol, give me a break. I personally find the Nameless way too quiet to warrant the cost. Also the design is just too complicated with all the piping and bends. I like simple designs and more significant weight savings. To each their own... right?

After watching the AB-M videos, to me it sounds like 75% as loud as the delete but a more gentlemanly tone. I'm also planning ahead for headers and midpipe in the distant future, so that's why I'm going with it. The works midpipe bolts right up and frees up 6hp, I like that it will fit the OEM muffler too in case I ever want to go quieter in the future.

The AB is probably 90% as loud as the delete without the drone.

I can understand not liking a particular design or sound. But, there are plenty of "simple" designs that use quality materials.

Motiv and perrin to name two.

It's a fact aluminized steel is going to fail sooner than t304. I don't understand why people would spend 27k on a new car and put a cheap exhaust on it that is worse quality than what came on it.

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That video showed the left hand side is a waste of time with all the flow and sound coming from the right hand tip, as you would expect. I don't see the point? Why not just have a track pipe and a dummy tip on the right side?
It would save weight and be more efficient.

http://i.imgur.com/XABmg.gif

If you pay closer attention you'll see the flow change dynamically from the left tip at idle to both tips in the midrange to mostly the right tip in higher rpms. A dummy tip wouldn't be audible in person and a single exit track pipe doesn't rumble nearly as much as a true dual exit.

Apparently it comes out one side off load and out the other during load. Looks bad in my opinion to have dual exit exhaust with exhaust gas only coming out one side at a time.

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Because exhaust gases on a n/a car with two cats are so visible all the time, especially when it has warmed up, :laughabove:

Enjoy your cheap, poorly designed and fabricated exhaust. :) and replace in 2 years when it rusts through

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I did pay close attention and the flow is the same as if water was flowing through and the tips were pointing down. It dribbles out of the left pipe on idle but with a bit of pressure it all squirts out of the right pipe.

Compared to something like a Nameless axleback it's very crude but each to their own.

Just so everyone understands this, that design isn't purpose built.

The goal was: How can we make the simplest design for a muffler delete, that takes the least amount of fabrication work to mass produce, and yields good profit margins?

The AB and AB-M are just the result of that. It was not tested or tuned to perform the way it does, with uneven flow from L/R sides. It's simply fluid dynamics at work.

Very little thought went into R&D for this product. It was designed for someone who just wants to make more noise with their car. (Not saying there is anything wrong with that, I was actually debating between similar options before deciding on a cat-back).

With that in mind, I would recommend using a similar philosophy when deciding which to get: Which one is most cost effective, creates a lot of noise, and is high quality?

The answer is likely the Berk piece.

I wouldn't take that number as fact. I highly doubt that replacing the mid-pipe with this piece on a stock car (or one with a muffler delete) will yield 6whp, (on a verifiable dyno).

The answer is a Nameless track pipe for $99.

http://shop.namelessperformance.com/...-5-track-pipe/

A good rule of thumb.
(works dyno claim) X 0.4 = actual dyno

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Exactly this. ^^

I love my Berk track pipe, hardly any drone, but loud when you get on it. I honestly wish it was louder, though, once I go catless it will be. Here's some videos.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ4Sjl6ucO4"]FRS/BRZ - Berk Technology Track Pipe - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCMp_72eRFg"]FRS/BRZ Berk Technology Track Pipe - YouTube[/ame]

ill link the facebook page where i posted a video of the names axleback delete AKA trackpipe. Its nearly inaudible with the cell phone recording inside the car. But with human ears inside its def audible

:iono:

remember guys, that those a called Muffler Delete.... when you are ready to buy something that in it's name it has the word Delete, expect that it will Delete the advantage procured of the other word in it's name (wich in this case, it will Delete every advantage a Muffler procure)

Works has already sort of 'built a reputation' of having a very... generous dyno.

Keep in mind that dynamometer testing requires input from users, and the same car can produce very different results from one pull to the next (even without any changes to the state of the car).

Works' dyno has "proven" a 10 whp gain for their drop-in filter element, when an independent tester's results put it on par with the rest of the drop-in filters (5hp).

if you apply that logic on every part of a new car, you will never change anything...

try to buy a original suspension, coils, wheels, or seats, just to see the price of those OEM parts... a lot of aftermarket parts are cheaper than oem parts...

and also... you keep your OEM exhaust... and i'll be happy to use it again when my Berk exhaust won't be usable anymore. it'll still be brand new! :)

Wasn't referring to the Berk. The Berk seems to be a quality piece if you are going for a muffler delete. The works one seems cheap to me because of the steel used and welds. The Berk is a much higher quality axleback.

My aftermarket exhaust is much higher quality than the stock parts they replace. I was only referring to the works system being inferior.

Same goes for suspension parts. There are plenty really high quality suspension components out there for this car that far exceed the stock units.

When I said cheap I was referring to quality, not price. Although they usually go hand in hand.

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