FR-S Rod knock
 

This is so frustrating I don't even know where to start.

Story: I came up on a snowplow salting for a storm coming later that night and he was doing 45mph so I pass the AT downshifts revs to 7K redline and shift when it does it feels very soft but I think nothing of it because I’m already doing 55MPH and just keep cruising for another 2miles or so. I come to the next stop sign and when I stop the idle dips down the car almost died but then recovers.
I continue forward but have lost all power and I hear a knocking from the engine so I pull over and it’s knocking for sure so I have it towed to dealer and I explain to the customer service rep what happened. At this point he starts to add to my story and say SO the snowplow splashed up snow or water onto your car as passing, I said no it was dry and explain they were salting. The next day I get a call from Smart Toyota telling me I Hydro locked the motor and this will not be covered under warranty. I was so surprised since the car is spotless with no water inside the engine bay ever. So I ask if they found water inside my intake or my engine they say no but did find moisture on the throttle body. ??!@@#

I ask if they found water in my oil because I assume if I hydro locked a motor the water will have to run past the pistons after bending said rod and then sit in the oil but the oil is PERFECT the dealership just changed it when they installed the new fuel pump. Next they told me a regional rep will stop by and take a look at the motor and give his opinion so I get another call and he agrees this is a hydrolock based on moisture in the TB. ..... IM so frustrated because it’s CRAZY there is no water in the engine and never has been.

I took a video the day it happened and from the video you can clearly see that the engine is clean I live in Wisconsin and right now the roads are covered in salt so any water sucked into the engine would of left a salt residue even if the water went away. I did not expect to be accused of hydro locking the engine so I had no idea to take better pics and video.

I spoke with Scion CORP and was told they will investigate but normally the regional rep is the last word but they will speak with him.
I’m at a loss from the beginning I had no customer service just them accusing me.

Video from the day it happened.

[ame]http://youtu.be/2kwOID-BNLo[/ame]

That to me does not sound like a rod knock, sounds more like a problem with the timing chain(s) or valve timing? With all the stock intake in place it would be pretty damn hard to hydrolock that thing unless the air filter box filled up with water.

:(

About 3mo ago I had the ECU replaced because of a timing error....

Did they also replace the timing gears?

The way they jumped to conclusions quickly and tried to pin it on you, tells me they know something. Maybe the botched the job.

Didn't you drill multiple holes in your airbox? I'm not saying that's what caused it, but I can see how a lazy dealership/technician will use that against you.

If there's nothing modded in the intake/airbox region there's absolutely no way this can be pinned on you.

Yes All the holes are on the inside of the engine bay... I also removed the resonator so the large hole on the right side of the box is open but this would still mean I would need to fill the engine bay with water and it would also stop the lower part of the stock air box from sucking up any water in since it can't complete a vacuum.
.
BTW I completely agree had I hydro locked the engine they should not cover it but this is not the case..

Was your air filter soaking wet?

Can water bypass the air filter to gain entry to the engine? If not, then it should be soaked, I'd think. Is it?

Are our engines "bottom feeders?" If not, how could this happen? Even so, with all the plates covering the bottom side of the engine bay, I'm still hard-pressed to understand how the engine could ingest a significant amount of water.

Might the engine have simply over-revved (despite the rev limiter) when downshifting and accelerating hard while the drive wheels run over a patch of ice, and then BAM! grab clean pavement?

I don't know, just speculating.

If an owner plunged into a "puddle" of unknown depth, then maybe he might be held responsible. What you've described sounds like -- whatever happened -- it should be covered under warranty.

Let us know the outcome, won't you?

Edit: Ah, I see Post #8 went up while I was composing mine, so some questions are answered, but not all.

sounds like a bearing. or lack thereof

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsCb0auCDWI"]ROD KNOCK!!! What it looks like inside the engine. - YouTube[/ame]

Everything including the filter was completely dry and free of any salt residue that would of been left with any water going through it. I agree this is a bearing but how do you get them to acknowledge it.

i called blackstone labs for you and they said they can possibly determine the health of the oil and give their input on the findings. they will state specifically if there is moisture in the oil and excessive tin and copper from the bearings.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

for $25, i think theyre your best bet in trying to fight the dealership.

This is the most ridiculous thing I think I've ever heard. Hydrolock? With a basically stock intake? I mean, I've seen instances of it happening with really low cars that have CAIs that go down low into the bumper, in extreme downpour/flood storms....but that's really it. If they don't back off from this accusation like ASAP, you should run this through the media chain, jalopnik, etc.

How many miles were driven on that thing with it knocking? That's SEVERE right there...........

This! This happened to a local guy but the dealer admitted the mistake and replaced the engine.

Fight the hell out of this one. Worst case, insurance should (I know multiple that have) cover hydrolock as a comp claim but that should be an absolutel LAST resort.

I'd want evidence of hydrolock though, water near/on the throttle body isn't evidence.

you should fight dealer and hire attorney if they BSing you.
it's impossible to hydrolock it with stock air filter. even CAI design for this car, it will get hydrolocked. like Jeebus said, CAI that design that filter is located right in front of wheel, like RSX-S, Civic Si would get hydrolocked but this is not right case.

A lawyer is a bad idea at this time. If he gets a lawyer so will they and everything will stop until the lawyers fight it out at the expense of all involved. Probably the worst next step he could take honestly.

Instead he needs to keep fighting with corporate, file a BBB claim and start a social media campaign. All of that is more effective right now than a lawyer would be.

Let me get this straight, you removed the resonator, and didn't plug the hole. So you've got a 2.5" hole that is completely open, bypassing the air filter?

That's before the filter. The only hole post-filter is for the sound generator which he didn't mention.

Wouldn't it be easy for them to just drop the oil pan and shake the rods and see if its a bearing? That's like 20min tops...

Who currently has possession of the vehicle?

Is the motor still in the car?

If the car is still intact I would have it assessed by a third party. Find anyone with a mechanical engineering degree and experience with cars and have it looked at, his word on paper accompanied by his title and listed degrees will be hard for Scion to ignore. it is important to get someone else's professional opinion before the dealership gets in there and starts covering their a$$

Gotcha, I thought he removed the sound generator.

He said resonator so I assumed the helmholtz resonator. He could have misspoke, I haven't seen the car so.. :shrug: :)

You can see the intake in the video everything behind the filter is intact.

Call toyota. Make a complaint. They will give you a claim and call them. Toyota reps will be on your side 100% more then a stupid tech.

I did get a call back form dealer and the service manager was much nicer and more informative that the customer rep I spoke with early. Toyota has authorized them to look at it tomorrow and find what cyl it is and if its a rod or the bearing. I feel allot better about this knowing I did not hit water......

A hydro locked engine in most circumstances dies period. I've seen hydro locked engines on the inside and it's never just one cylinder that is messed up. Generally all four are jacked up and they roll out the side of the block. I doubt it's hydro locked at all

wait... you left the hole open when you removed the sound resonator? you do realize that basically by passes the mass ? which could produce an issue.

^This.

A couple years ago, I was installing 1600cc injectors on my racecar, after the install and priming the rail, the engine would not turn over by starter or by bigass prybay (on crank) long story short, the injectors were faulty and stayed open under pressure and filled all 4 cylinders with c16....so ofcourse I thought I was boned....(by this time im a case deep in heiniken) and I notice a old spray bottle, I took the top spray pump off, stuck the plastic hose into the cylinder and BAM! fuel pumped into empty Heiny bottles.


the point is, when it locked it was not running however it literally would have locked the whole drivetrain if it pulled enough water to bend a rod.


tldr; shit happens, good luck.


*edit* its also pretty awesome to see fuel shoot over the hood when you crank a hydrolocked engine and plugs out.

Just so we are all on the same page I did not bypass the MAF and in the pic the yellow does show where I drilled the box
http://fast16v.com/fa20.jpg

I don't understand why you would drill the box like that...regardless, I also don't see how it would cause a problem.

you drilled holes in your airbox? why?
resonator hole left open? but its fine like that?

this cant be real, troll post?

+1 DAFUQ?

I so wish I had a picture of the last engine we got a look at. All four rods were bent at 30 degrees. Bearings were flattened, pistons were in pieces. A truly hydro locked engine will not have a bearing knock, it will have a large hole in the crankcase

Drilling the air box and removing the resonator may be irrelevant to the issue, but it doesn't help in terms of arguing with these people. And argue I would. Argue the h*ll out of them. There should be an abundance of water evidence (and, as you say, salt) in a hyydro-lock situation. Plus all the other good points that folks have raised in this thread.

So, tell me again: Why do we live in a culture where consumers are willing to tolerate this kind of "buyer does our beta testing for us" sh*t? It only ever leads to mfrs. denying that they brought to market an underdeveloped product.

My dad drilled holes in the airbox of his F-150. He said he liked the way it made the truck sound :iono:

A likable, louder sound is almost always the only outcome of this kind of mod. Same with CAI, etc. Good for posers. Bad for avoiding from the PD. Zero for performance.

1. That IS knock
2. That IS horseshit.
3. Sorry man

I think they are going to have to pull the black box data to identify what really happened in the motor. The dealership is doing what they do, trying to identify WHY something happened. Politely remind them that their job is to fix it, not waste time playing detective for hypothetical causes and effects. If they believe its in questionable territory, then a scion customer representative can come in and inspect the vehicle and black box data.

This is my intake box.
http://fast16v.com/intakemod.jpg