Should Subaru release a motorsport version of the BRZ?
 

Subaru has said that one of its goals for the BRZ is to get more into road racing. As this car is definitely at a price point where they are hoping that the weekend road racer/autoxer will want to use this car, should they release a motorsport version that is designed specifically for that demographic?

What I am thinking of here is something like the S2000 CR, or the Porsche 911 RS America.

Imagine a BRZ with a stock engine and drive train, but no carpet, no roof-liner, no radio or speakers, no A/C, and no rear seat. It would have manual windows, and maybe even a main hoop or a cage all ready built in from the factory.

Basically, a BRZ that is as light as possible, and gives you just what you would want if you were building a race car, but none of the things that you would just tear out. And make it light as possible at the same time.

Perhaps throw in a lot of aluminum suspension pieces to reduce weight as well.

At very least, should Subaru come out with Motorsports grade parts for the BRZ? Yes, this is basically what STI parts are supposed to be, but we get very little of those here in the states.

I am thinking of the support that a manufacturer like General Motors gives weekend racers that run their cars. They will have wind tunnel tested body parts (bumpers, wings) that will fix lift/drag issues that the street car has, or re-flashed ECU's from the factory that maximize the car's performance to make them as competitive as possible on the track.

What do you think? Is this something that you would use your BRZ for?

The Subaru ECU has actually been actively monitoring the Engine and changing parameters such as fueling and timing since 2002. Earlier most likely. I believe it checks octane as well. At least I am pretty sure it does on the WRX and STI.

There are definitely limits to this, and it is mainly for engine safety and longevity versus performance.

What I was thinking about were the re-flashes that GM came out with for the SRT4 and Solstice. Once you throw mpg and emissions out the window, you can see some pretty good gains with a re-flash, and they offered them for motorsports applications (don't know all the details, but I have a buddy that raced in the SCCA so I know that these did exist).

Even if they don't come out with a race-ready car from the factory, it would be really nice if they would at least produce some high performance track ready parts for the cars. What Subaru has missed for quite some time is that level of support is what will sway people to use your platform instead of another that does have that level of support.

It is probably wishful thinking, but hey, you never know...

04' STi had carpet. It was kind of a mix between a loaded jdm STi and a jdm Spec C with a usdm 2.5l engine.

A CR, Honda Type-R, or 911 RSA type car would be awesome. I've driven all of those cars quite a bit and would love to have a "modern day" version :thumbup:

Fixed that for you.

If there's a market for it, sure why not?

Toyota is already selling a stripped down version of the 86 in Japan.

Both of your examples were expensive, limited edition street cars which makes them a truly awful choice for anyone looking to build a race car. As spartan as you think they are, they are still packed full of useless (often expensive) crap that has no business being on a race car.

Many manufacturers sell "motorsport" versions of their cars to race teams. It's called a "body in white". For example:
$3500 for a Civic
$7000 for a Camaro

I assumed he just meant a more focused version based on the examples he provided. If he meant BIW cars then yeah, the examples were bad choices.

I think a BIW is what he didn't know he wanted to mean. :)

BIW BRZ would be pretty cool. I wonder if they can sell it at Civic price? If you can add drivetrain components and racing suspension, windows, safety gear, seat, gauges, fuel cell, etc depending on race venue and come under $15k it would be an excellent budget racer.

Good luck with that....

I can barely stand reading this forum, I don't know how you could even respond to these eleventeen year olds and their absurd pipe dreams.

Everything up to this point in time are all pipe dreams anyway. The car is not even released yet.

Probably not the best choice in wording. Unless it was. In which case please send me a link so I can order mine :happy0180:

I think the pipe dream comments were about the racecar for 15k. Until real pricing comes and in the unlikely event Subaru would even offer the shell for sale for race car build, it is pretty close to impossible that you can do a real track ready BRZ for 15k.

I don't doubt subaru will offer race oriented components at a nice profit margin for the company to people who want it. I am less sure that Subaru would do a "stripped down" version at this point. I think STI version may happen if there is a market. Anyhow its all speculation at this point. Other than a bunch of journalists gushing over the handling we have very little real performance info to go on.

I'm familiar with the stripped down "body in white", but that is not what I was looking for.

I do mean something in the vein of the S2000 CR or 911 RS America. A production car that is street legal, but that you could take to the track or autocross course and be very competitive right out of the box.

This comes out of the fact that the original weight released for the car was around 2600 lbs, and now it looks like it will actually be almost 2800 lbs when it lands here in the US.

If they were to get rid of a lot of those frilly things that don't help with going fast, and put that money towards things that do, then I think that the BRZ/FR-S would be much more appealing to those of us that want to compete in the car.

IMO, I doubt that Subaru especially would do something like this because they really do not support weekend racers at all, and that is what I would like to see change most of all.

Do you realize how many components from a totaled STI would be a direct (and better) swap? There is no need to dismiss the potentially good idea so quickly, especially with wrecks going for ~$10K.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3104

Most of us think it's Ej swapped..

I'd certainly hope it isn't EJ swapped, considering we already know they have FA turbo engines in the works. However being if it's just a drift team without engineering support, it may very well be just a shell with an EJ dropped in. It would be simple enough to do.

:bonk: Subaru's.
They mean it when they call these cars Legos, most of the stuff you mentioned should be able to fit.
This isnt about being cheap, its about building your own car. If its done with patience and know-how it can be much cheaper than you assume, but you do have to pay to play in the end.

If the FB shares the same trans bolt pattern as the EJ then the FA will as well (I have no idea if that's the case or not).

All you need from the 04 STI is rotors. Any 04-11 STI front calipers bolt up (although won't be proper as discussed in some brakes threads) and 04-07 rear calipers... and the parking brake stuff if you want the parking brake to function.. and pads of course.

A BIW BRZ will be at least 5k if they ever sold it. Add in all of the parts to build it as a race car and there is no way you'll be under 15k IMO.

Exactly +1 I was always under the impression that the FA FB and EJ closer relatives to each other in design than even Nissans VG series.

Yep from moto's Article sounds like Impreza 5x100 brake hardware will bolt up properly without much modification. (I hope the factory BMC&BB are big enough to support larger calipers)

You didn't read my post or his. 04-11 STi/STI Front Calipers fit. 04-07 (at least) STi/STI rear calipers fit.

However, fitting doesn't mean working correctly due to the caliper design and mounting location, UNLESS the STi/STI calipers have a second spot for a bleeder on the opposite end of the caliper. The reasoning for that is that the calipers are differential-bored so they are directional. If you keep the left on the left but move it from the rearward side of the rotor (like the STI is) to the frontward side of the rotor (like the BRZ) the pistons will be correct but the bleeder will be on the bottom, which isn't good. If you swap sides, the bleeder is fine, but the piston bores are backwards, which also isn't good.

So literally the *ONLY* 2004 STI dependant part are the rotors. Nothing else.

A much cheaper upgrade will hopefully be newer LGT front rotors and caliper brackets (and maybe calipers if the BRZ calipers have smaller pistons and/or don't fit on the LGT brackets).

And that's assuming a brake upgrade will be needed. It absolutely WILL NOT be needed for the street, and even on track cars will only be needed if the OEM brakes can't keep up with the repeated high speed stops, assuming the car has enough power to even experience repeated high speed stops without cooldown (assuming track pads and good fluid).

If you are doing it for looks none of this would probably concern anyone though.

Price difference for the same model and size wheels just because of the bolt pattern btw? Example? I've never seen that.

Relax man. I think people get too worked up over posts. I know its not possible since I have spent money on modding before. Stupid number to throw out there I admit. That being said I will not pay more for a stripped version. I'd rather sell the parts I strip off to get the stripped version result. Now a stripped down version for cheaper would be cool though I doubt it will happen that way. Less seem to cost more if you follow Porsche formula.

You are NOT swapping the hubs. There is no need to. The STI caliper bolts onto the KNUCKLE. The 04-07 STI *CALIPERS* are exactly the same (and 04-12 all work) and bolt directly onto the WRX Knuckle, and the BRZ knuckle.

You need new rotors for any year STI calipers as they are spaced off the knuckle to accept the larger 12.8" STI rotors. If you skip that part you won't have much brakes at all.

This has already been done on a BRZ without changing knuckles/hubs by Greddy, just using 2004 STI rotors.

I've seen two stories for the rear.. first is:
The rear STI calipers from an 04-07 also bolt right onto the BRZ, but you won't have a parking brake (due to the drum parking brake used on the STI vs the BRZ using the sliding caliper).

Second is:
You need 08+ STI calipers and redrilled 08+ STI rotors.

Greddy already did both ends of the car, without changing the knuckles or using any special adapters/parts.

Oh and here: http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...cion-fr-s.aspx

Personally the expense of the parts outweigh the need/benefit for me, especially considering the potential caliper issues (differential-bored piston/bleeder issue). The newer LGT fronts are almost as large (12.4"x30) but can use a simple sliding caliper. Yeah, not good for looks, but they work fine.

Even the stock brakes are made for cars weighing in at 3200-3400lbs or so, they will be awesome in this car on track IMO.

Then your original description is completely inaccurate. Half the crap you want on your stripped out street car would be pulled off and ebay'd on day 1 of a race car build.



Who in this thread said anything about building a low budget street car? Not Max Schnell, and certainly not me (hint: BIWs don't have VINs). I, at least, was talking about actual race cars, not street cars or tuned track day/autocross cars. And if you were building a race car, and it absolutely had to be an AS1, you would save a considerable amount of time, effort and money by buying a BIW.

Why would you even want to use any of that crap on a race car? (OEM engine mounts included)

Dave-ROR is 100% correct. I'm not sure what the other poster is on about.

Subaru have for a long time sold bare bones race cars. They are for real race teams, not people who want to build street cars. As pointed out, they don't have RIN plates and cannot be registered. Generally they only suit those who are building to GroupN specs as even those cars are full of stuff that a dedicated track car would throw in the bin.

Thought I'd check back on this forum to see if the level of discussion had improved. It hasn't.

You just need to improve the level of your ignore list. :lol:

You keep reading about it, I'll keep doing it.

I could post a number of threads explaining how you can use parts that aren't from an 04 STI too.

Fact is, we are NOT swapping the hubs so the bolt pattern and hubs don't play a role here at all.

if we are talking about brake hardware for late model STIs some modification may be needed in the fronts for the BRZ because the spindles/knuckles are different, its not just the hubs that's are different between 04STI and 05+STI