AutoX beginner, wanting some tips
 

This weekend will be my first AutoX attempt with a local Porsche club. Anyone here experienced, have any pointers?

Tried to YouTube some videos and found some 80's stuff, and a lot of GoPro footage but not really any useful advice.

I've always loved cars, spirited country driving, parking lot drifting etc., but this is my first experience in a controlled environment.

Should I tape my head lights (I already have a 3M tint on the headlights)? Should I take my tire pressure gauge and check after every run? Do you keep the traction control on or take all nannies off for AutoX? Do you use the E-brake for sharp hairpin type corners? I've seen both the drift method and the grip method.

Thanks and I apologize if these are /facepalm type questions, complete noob here when it comes to tracking/AutoX! :bonk:

Ask for instructor ride alongs each time. If you're confortable with it, even let them drive your car to give you some ideas.

Remember that slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Worry about your line, not getting speed. Learn to read the cones and anticipate what's coming up. Don't turn in fast at the last moment, turn in gradually. Learn to brake in a straight line and be almost or fully off of the brakes before turning the wheels at all.

No need to tape lights off.

Tire pressures are different for every tire but if you're a full street tire (above 200 TW) set your pressures to around 38 cold and run them there for the day, maybe low back to 40 psi after they have 1-2 runs. Low pressures will destroy your tires. No need to get prefect pressures until you have a very firm grasp of this sport. You just want this to keep the tires in good shape.

autocross is simple

1. walk the course and memorize when to go straight, when to turn left and when to turn right.

100% of your time is dependent on you staying on course, and as silly as it is there are competitors out there that will go an entire day without getting it right.

2. start out slow and build up your speed, unless you are a very seasoned competitor your understanding of the relationship of your "course walk" and "behind the wheel" will be poor. So even if you know where to go the feeling of how fast/slow the corner is will change once you're in the car and going at speed.

a lot of times simply completing the course at a moderate pace without hitting cones will put you into the middle of the pack, it's that simple

3. progress your speed, figure out the fastest speed you can carry into a turn before you skid/plow and then back off on your next run


this is my general strategy for days with good weather and lots of runs

run 1, go slow and figure out the line. make sure not to fake yourself and take the wrong "slow" line, because when you drive slow you have grip 100% and every line becomes the right line. Try to predict where your car will drift once you get up to speed

run 2, blast through each corner, understeer, oversteer, see where you spin out, see where you plow, see where you hit cones, essentialy this run you're trying to remember how fast is too fast

run 3 and on, now that you know the limit for each corner, you start figuring out what is "just enough", and this right here is what seperates the pro's from the everyone else.

how quickly you can maximize your car given the course layout.


that taping shit up is for later, for now focus on the basics. Grip vs Drift, don't even worry about that, you'll figure that out on your own.

You've probably heard this already and you will probably hear it many times from instructors when you autocross but looking ahead is the most important thing to teach yourself. When you are approaching a turn you need to at least look to the exit of that turn and hopefully to the entrance of the next turn as well. Walk the course many times, and practice looking ahead while you are walking the course. Then if you can, ride along with some people before you drive. The first time you see the course at speed it is going to seem like it is flying by, but if you have walked the course enough then you should be able to make sense of it. Again, practice looking ahead while you are riding with someone else. I find this is the best time to get yourself in the habit of looking ahead, because you aren't worried about driving. Smoothness will come naturally when you can see what is coming up.

I agree with kido about tire pressures. Don't overthink them, spend your time between runs looking at a course map and try to remember where you made mistakes. And like he said, the more often you have an instructor in your car, the more you will learn.

And don't use the handbrake.

In two ways.

1) Dont use it during the run, no matter how much you think you "know" it will help. Tokyo Drift was wrong. I'm astonished how many Novices (sans instructor) try this.

2) Don't park on the handbrake after a run. Hot brakes plus locking the brakes down = bad time for your rear brakes.

I like where this thread is going! Great advice so far! I'd like to get out there and autox mine sometime in the near future! It's nice to hear from people who have actually done it a lot.

Hey thanks guys! I'm sure my "instructor" for my first event will teach me a lot, but again who knows how experienced this "instructor" is. And I'm sure everyone's got their own style.

I really appreciate the feed backs. I hope I can learn a lot, and most importantly to have fun! I'll have my GF film my runs so you formula 1 racers can criticize my runs lol.

good instructors will all teach you the same fundamentals

what you have to watch out for are those good drivers who can't teach worth a damn, they don't understand their on skill or why they drive well, all they know is that they drive well, these are the worst teachers.

On my first (and only so far) autox, my main problem was lack of throttle modulation, I would always go flat out as soon as I had the car pointing to the apexes, but then the tail would get happy and I'd go off course on a drift.

So, over the day I learned how to modulate my throttle input. Lifting off during corners can be as bad as going flat out. The delayed response caused by the 'throttle by wire' system also takes some getting used to, IMHO.

Seat time is key. Don't put any expectations on yourself except that you're willing to learn. Go on as many ride alongs as possible and get experienced people to ride with you. Also, when you're out marshalling, try to watch other people's lines, where they brake, etc. You can learn a lot by watching in various areas of the course.

Remove ALL loose items in car and trunk including floor mats. Tool kits and spare tire in trunk ok to stay in (at least where I did it last fall). Air pump and tire gauge good to take. Helmet meeting current specs. Whomever is running the event should have info on that posted. If they run in groups (like A, B, C) try to get in B or C for your first time so you can watch and take mental notes of the course. Take an instructor, see if you can go on ride alongs with other drivers. Don't try to 'kill it' on your first run. My first run was a 61.97 and I thought it was much better than that, but electronics don't lie. 6th run was a 51.92. Have fun, that's what it's all about and learning what your can can do.

^^This^^

Good advice, but how would you tell the OP what to look for to know the difference? No offence, but regarding autocross, if the FAST guys offer any sort of advice or instruction I would listen. If they have a proven track record of speed & wins, ESPECIALLY at the National level, I don't feel anyone with less success has the credibility to question the validity of their instruction. What they advise may sound crazy, but it doesn't mean it isn't true.

Otherwise, I agree 100% with everything being said, & most important get lots of seat time & learn all you can from the fast drivers.

Here are ten great tips that I received from my first instructor, Pat Washburn.

Slow In and Fast Out - slow entries allow for fast exits.
Look Ahead - look where you want to drive and not where you are. The car will follow your eyes.
The line you drive is more important than speed - Tight to the inside on sweepers, using all the track on simple corners, and tight lines in a slalom.
Choose your lines first, then fill in with speed.
Smooth is quick - jerky is bad as it upsets the car, shocking the tires over their grip level
Sometime you gotta slow down to go fast - some parts are just slow....be patient. It is very difficult to gain time but very easy to lose time in many sections.
Slaloms - typically they should be taken at a steady speed and you should not be accelerating or on the brakes.
Walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, walk - you should be able to close your eyes and navigate the course (in your mind of course). This will take time to get comfortable with but the more you walk the easier it will be.
Brake earlier - it gives you more time to react and will allow you to setup and apply the throttle earlier for a faster exit. Brake HARD when braking!!
Attack the back side of slalom cones - by trying to drive past the back side of the cones you are moving the turning point back and keeping ahead of things. Get behind and you will lose time and/or cone. If you are on time, you can typically be on the gas full throttle about half way before the second to last slalom cone. The last one should be a freebie.
LATE APEX - most cones should be late apex'd. Slowing down earlier, turning in sooner but less, and apexing later in the corner allows earlier throttle application. You should feel like your back tire is going to hit the cone.


FACT:
Time is made on the straights - how many and how long they are is up to you!

Cones typically will not damage your car. You may have to rub off some rubber from the cones and the majority of these hits should occur at the rear of the door and back if you are late apexing properly. For those who are visual like myself, this video may also be helpful:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3oh_DX8x5w&feature=share&list=UU1RV7qhYQB mYG3zmWoa1MVQ"]Keep it tight! - YouTube[/ame]


Ultimate Speed Secrets is a great read that applies to all types of racing.

Remember rain gear! I see a lot of new drivers come to schools or events without rain gear looking miserable.

I will be out at Sunday's event also BRZPDX. I can help you walk the course and go over the basics.

i instruct a lot of new guys at my local autoX first thing i say 3 times once at the grid once at the start and right after they shift to second gear is...

KEEP BOTH HANDS ON THE WHEEL

easy

a good teacher will tell you how you should do something, using specific terms and trying to be consistent; and if you have trouble understanding, will put in the extra effort to break it down for you.

a bad teacher will tell you to how they do something, talk in generalities and seemingly apply different theories to different corners; and if you have trouble understanding will tell you to "just keep doing it until you get it."


Teaching is a skill, just like anything else. I'm not against taking advice from a seasoned/fast driver, but genereally that advice is only good on paper, something to think about on your drive home, or practice next time.

when you're new to the sport and you have a guy or girl spending the whole day with you, there are certain fundementals that have to be covered using specific teaching methodologies, and this ability is only loosely correlated to their proffeciency at teaching others.

Don't coast. If you're not on the brakes, you should be on the gas.

these are the types of "tips" i'm talking about

it's general and doesn't touch on fundementals. There is always time for coasting, or feather throttle, the point is that you need the car balanced, and if you need to get off the gas gently to balance it then you get off the gas.

Spoken like a road racer :laughabove:

road racing is even simpler ;)

There is always time for coasting, or feather throttle, the point is that you need the car balanced, and if you need to get off the gas gently to balance it then you get off the gas.

Thanks for elaborating. You don't necessarily have to have the throttle pinned or be hard on the brakes all the time - but very few situations necessitate the absence of action on a course or track.

I've never auto-X'd, but one thing that I found to be helpful before races (in the sprint car) was to visualize yourself driving the track before you go out. While you are sitting in the car waiting to go is the perfect time. You'll be in your helmet and somewhat isolated from surroundings. I liked to kind of zen out, close my eyes, and visualize in my head a lap or two of the track.

Obviously, it'll take a few runs before you're able to do this. Once you get used to it, however, you'll be able to focus on areas that you have had problems with and you can think to yourself about what to do to correct those problems. Doing this right before hitting the track can help a lot. I know it does for me.

And, of course, remember to have as much fun as possible!

Bring lots of water, a sandwich, sunscreen, an open mind, and the willingness to have fun. Sit with an instructor until you're comfortable with the course. Don't worry about everyone else in your class just set a personal goal once you've ran the course a few times. For example your best lap on your 4th run was a 58.7, your goal should be 57.9 or something faster not worrying about the experienced road racer who was stuck in novice class because it's his first autox and is running 49.9 all day. Like others said take it easy your first couple runs and realize where you could make up time later on. Have fun!

No, not easy at all for the new person who has no idea WHAT to listen for.

100% agree with everything you said here, but...

...dis-agree with you here. I have on too many numerous occasions to count driven someone elses car, & without saying a word to them they went faster on their next run. Teaching a 1st grader to write involves the teacher showing them on the chalk board.


For the most part I totally agree with you & I'm not trying to argue your points, but one of the most important aspects in teaching or coaching is knowing your students, & how they learn & absorb information. Some want facts & fundamentals spelled out for them, others need to be shown...part of being a good teacher is also tuning into their student's style of learning. Also understand that most...if not all...instructors at dedicated autocross school programs ARE seasoned/fast drivers, & might very well be the person sharing advice at any local event.

I just feel that someone new should not be worried too much about how instruction is being given to them, but rather how they should apply that instruction to their driving. If they don't understand or get any positive results from the instruction, ask more questions or find someone else to ask, most will be happy to help!

do ride along with other people.(if possible) most people dont mind it.

Beating a dead horse here but ...First and foremost get there early and walk the course multiple times and make notes on lines. The mental aspect is a big key. Get somebody experienced to ride along and give pointers and Brake...Brake hard Danial San.

Tire pressures on the other-hand i would start off a little lower than others have said around 34psi and look at you roll and adjust from there. One of the best tuning aspects on a bone stock car...Cannot start to early with the fundamentals

THREAD RESURRECTION!!!!

So a n00B (at least with this car) auto-x question: I will be running my car in the auto-x at 86 EXPO, first time driving it in this setting. Completely stock.

First, I saw the recommendation on slightly over-inflating the tires--good idea or not? I know from looking around that it reduces the contact patch slightly, but doesn't really change the traction of the tires--not that there is much in the first place.

Secondly, what are your recommendations for newbie VSC/Traction control settings? I know running with all the nannies on is not the best idea, so I was thinking at least the VSC off. I wasn't planning on doing the "Pedal dance," but if it would really be a good idea to run with everything except ABS off as a newbie, I'll welcome the challenge.

I ran with my VSC on the first couple of events. Ultimately you'll be faster with it off; however, in my opinion the Nannies are not the biggest concern when driving the car stock.

In my opinion the tires are the weak link in the Twins. You can easily test the limits of your tires in VSC mode.

My recommendation is run VSC mode until YOU feel that VSC mode is slowing you down. Then turn off the nannies via button so the computer will allow you more slip angle.

If you're running stock tires, I would bump up the pressures, especially in the front. They're soft and tend to roll over when pushed. Inflating the tires will stiffen the sidewall a bit, helping to prevent the tires from rolling over. I wouldn't worry about contact patch or trying to maximize grip on your first event out. That won't be what holds you back.

An experienced driver would be better off without the nannies. I find that they're very restrictive and the car is plenty easy to drive without them. But being that you've resurrected the thread and presumably inexperienced, it really depends on your comfort level. Your first few runs at your first event will be an overwhelming experience. My recommendation would be to try your first run or two with it on (or in Sport), learn the course and concentrate on the line and driving. Then on your last few runs,i f you're a bit more comfortable and realizing autocrossing isn't that scary, try turning it off and seeing how you like it. This car is very intuitive and forgiving when pushed hard, it is a lot happier and more fun with everything off.

Autocross is great in that you have multiple runs and you can experiment with the cars settings (Traction Control, Shock Settings, Tire pressures, etc) throughout the day. You don't have to stick to one thing for an entire event.

BTW, I don't even bother with the pedal dance. I also played around with VSC Sport mode and it didn't feel any different to me than fully on.

Holy necrobump batman!

I ran at 35# all weekend on the stock Turanzas and didn't suffer too much with excess under or oversteer. I've been autocrossing for almost a decade now, and I normally turn off every assist that's available. BUT, if you're new to the car and autocrossing I'd absolutely run in VSC mode until you feel comfortable with what to expect from then car when you toss it around a cone.

Good luck and have fun!

... Turanzas are not stock on a BRZ/FR-S.
What tires do you guys have on yours?

The primacies have a very stiff sidewall (characteristic of a LRR tire), and I feel that anything above 38 psi when hot makes the car push.

A number of FRSes (and possibly BRZs) came with Bridgestone Turanzas instead of the Michelin Primacys.

Here is a thread about it here - http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18519

Compared to the type of tires autocrossers want to use (Max/Extreme Summer) the Primacys have a soft sidewall and will rollover on the edges when driven aggressively unless pressures were raised. I had put mine up to 35PSI cold in the front and 32PSI in the rear. Felt that was a good balance.

Things that really help me:

Seating position. One thing to note is you can turn your headrest backward to accommodate your helmet better when racing.
When doing your course walk, walk where you would be sitting in the car when you go around the course, is the cone on the left or right, how close are you going to be?
Eyes up! You should be looking one corner ahead, it will keep you on course and help your lines.
Don't be afraid to whack cones, but do tape over any 3M you don't want to contact, as cone marks will never come out of 3M...

This has pretty much been my most successful necrobump so far :D Thanks for the advice!

The Primacy recommended cold inflation is 35 PSI.

I really don't think the primacies have a softer sidewall than a RS3, zII, re11a, AD08s...

Their reinforced and Michelin says you drive 80km on them with 0 tire pressure.

That's interesting, whenever I bring in the car for service, they always drop my air pressure down to 30-32. I always had to re inflate for an autocross after a service.

Anyway, 35F/32R cold are the pressures I ran on the car 100% stock and it felt pretty good for me. But your results may vary as your surface grip, driving style, and even air pressure gauge may be different from mine. After a few runs, check out your tires. If its rolling over to the sidewall, just give it more pressure. If the wear isn't to the edges of the shoulder, then you may have too much air pressure. Adjust to your style and preference.

The OEM Primacy HPs are not run flats and will not run 80km with 0PSI. Driving without air pressure on the stock tires will tear them to shreds and could damage something.

My bad. HP ZPs are the run flats.

But I still feel the primacy HP have stiffer sidewall than the ones I mentioned.

I did 1 autocross in June. I wanted to pump the tires a bit, but forgot with all the excitement. You can tell they rolled and was using a lot of the outside rubber. Only 2 ways to combat this. 1 is tire pressure to help the tire not roll as much(Super Easy and mostly free) and 2 is wheel camber (hard and costly). If you`re going to autocross just a few times, and you`re happy with the suspension as is, just pump the tires and go have fun.

Planning to try out autocross for my first time in about a week. I appreciate all this tips you guys have given. Its nice to have a general idea of what I should be doing going out there.

As mentioned I know I shouldn't be too worried about my tire pressure, but I would like to know what I should be paying attention to in terms of tire movement when I'm out on the track, and how to adjust the pressure accordingly.

If it helps I'm running Hankook RS-3's with 35psi all around. I figured this tire pressure would be a good starting point. Any help is really appreciated, thanks!