Regarding "Race" oils.
 

Cross posted from a discussion here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30742

My VOA (virgin oil analysis) would say otherwise. I run 300V for 10k intervals in my S2000, which is currently at 116k miles, and has hundreds of hours of run time at 6000+ RPM. Believe me, I'm completely anal about proactive/preventative maintenance.

We run 300V in the CSG shop cars, and our current oil change is at about 6000 miles. I can assure you that the car has seen plenty of track time :)

Re: 8100. You want to prepare you car for the harshest condition you will expose it to (this applies to brake pads as well). If you plan on running one marathon a year, do you train by doing 2 mile jogs every day? In my experience, 8100 has broken down with JUST canyon driving; I used to use it before I ever started hitting the tracks, and UOA showed it be insufficient, even though it is a very highly regarded oil.

As always, YMMV. We change our fluids based on test results from Blackstone, and recommend that anyone interested in extended oil change intervals to do the same.

We carry the full line of Motul fluids. PM @CounterSpace Garage for more info, or visit our www.counterspacegarage.com

300V virgin oil analysis.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/psychoazn/VOA.jpg

Oil analysis on my factory fill on the S2000 (Yes, I started from the begining)
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/psychoazn/UOA1.jpg

Different oils I tried in my car, until I discovered 300V. Look at the viscosity break down. My car was strictly a daily driver/canyon carver at this point. Still zero track time!
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/psychoazn/UOA6.jpg

Experimenting with different diff fluids.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75...oazn/Diff6.png

You are correct about the detergents, although 8100 0W-20 is a 100% synthetic, ester based oil.
http://www.motul.com/us/en-US/produc...iscosity%5D=36

There's a new Motul 8100 0W-20 available in Australia and it is likely PAO based.
http://www.motul.com/system/product_...pdf?1339474108

Only the 6100 series is synthetic blend.
http://www.motul.com/us/en-us/produc...%5Brange%5D=25

-Dennis

Just one point I'd like to make that Dennis could probably clarify: Don't the racing oils usually have higher phosphorous levels, to the point they could be deadly to the cats?

Oops. I stand corrected. Need more coffee. Not sure why I was thinking 8100 when I was thinking 6100.

Higher phosphorus levels than GF5 oils? Yes. Enough to be deadly to cats? No, IMO, as long as you're not burning a lot of oil.

The phosphorus levels shown above are actually typical of Rotella 5W-40, and many other 40 weights that Subaru turbo owners (like me) love to run, and the other Subaru forums don't have a lot of posts about cat failures and most would say the dead cat thing is overblown. There's a guy over at bitog that has worked in the oil industry for many years for some of the major oil companies and he has been running high phosphorus diesel oils in gas cars since the 60's!

Of course, YMMV, and don't blame me if you do have a cat failure running a high phosphorus oil. :D :happy0180:.

-Dennis

Here in the NY/NJ area we get back blackstones from motul in client cars 8100 x-clean 5w30 on 5000 mile intervals that are amazing. We have been selling and using in our cars the 8100 for a long time and for a street car on 7500 intervals it is more than adequate to be used. On cars that are tracked, you will want to change your oil shortly before an even and shortly after an event to provide the most protection.

The v300 is also great, but overkill for most drivers in our opinion.

We also stock and sell Motul so feel free to ask for a quote and we are one of the only stocking dealers in the Tristate.

-Mike Paisan

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So it was the 6100 that showed breakdown in the above UOAs?

One is 8100 and one is 6100. Both broke down.

We've ran the 8100 in both our street and track cars for a few years now. No breakdowns and the UOAs for them have come back very well. We have ran the 8100 X-Clean C3 5w30 and 5w40 in our cars and have a fairly decent size sample of customer cars that run them. I would say that we do about 50+ Motul oil changes a month on customer's cars as well.

-Mike Paisan

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@CSG Mike:

Is there any benefit to running Motul 300V 0W20 over Motul 8100 0W20??

Or would you recommend just running 300V 5W30 all the time (especially if the car will see the track)?

The 300v 0w20 will be more robust than the 8100 0w20 but the cost is probably not warranted for a street car.

The 300v 5w30 would be a good choice for track beaten cars.

-Mike Paisan

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Will the 300V 0W20 withstand street use such as 8000 OCI and cold starts every day?

I heard some people say 300V is good for track and only meant for really short OCIs

If it's driven on the street you gain not from running a race-only oil. You need a "compromise", an oil that good enough for the track but has the necessary ingredients for the street (detergents etc). Many street oils are so good they work very well under racing conditions.

If you have a dedicated race car that's never left outside in the cold you really should be running a dedicated race onlyoil, they're just that good.

I see some excellent oils in this thread. Good thread, but surprised nobody mentioned Joe Gibbs, one of the undisputed champions of racing oil development.


http://www.drivenracingoil.com/media...s_lg_xp3_1.jpg

http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/xp3.html

Haven't seen that used in subies yet. It may be because no one thought to use it or perhaps it is similar to Mobil 1 which does not do very well in Subies at all.

-Mike Paisan

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"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

Interesting, so what are the factors one need be concerned with if they elect to run the 300V on a car thats track and street, always garaged, I'm fine with the shorter intervals/higher running costs. is it fine for 500 cold starts?

You should not see this being used any car that isn't a dedicated race car at all. How many race-only Subarus do you normally see? I've only seen 2 around here. Also, Joe Gibbs race oil is not similar to Mobil 1.

For you're car? Anything's possible. :D

Also, loaded question, you already know the answer.

Hmmm. I was contemplating tossing in some 0w-30 euro spec mobil 1 i have left that was intended for my old A4. Whats wrong with mobil 1?

Yeah, not at all similar.

I don't know of any dedicated subaru race cars locally.

The only problem I have with race oils is that our race car burns way too much to afford them lol

Could you please elaborate on that?

This is a good read.

http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...otor%20Oil.pdf

We've been doing oil changes on Subies for 10+ years.

Over that time we've done 6,000+ oil changes on Subies.

We've found Mobile 1 and Subaru Synthetic to consume the most amount of oil between changes, on average about 1Q per 3,000 miles. While Motul 8100 C3 X-Clean 5w30 and Amsoil 5w30 both generally go 5,000-7,000+ without consuming any oil or <1 Quart and still yield great blackstone results.


-Mike Paisan

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/14...8/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg
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"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

Up here we have lots of dedicated Subie race cars actually :)

I agree though that you need a balance between a good protective oil and what is fiscally smart. Similar to using less expensive rotors since they are considered a wear and tear item on a track car.

-Mike Paisan

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/14...8/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg
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Have you guys been using the Amsoil 5w30 Signature series? I plan on running it with a 5k OCI, i went with it over the motul as I get it for about 60% of the cost of the motul.

We've been using and are an Amsoil dealer for about 9 years. The 5w30 Signature is what we use in conjunction with their extended life oil filters. Very good results via blackstone and our own ad-hock testing. If you get it for less than the Motul cost, then use it. We sell a lot more of the Motul these days because our cost on the Motul is much less than that of the Amsoil and therefore our customer cost is also that much lower.

-Mike Paisan

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/14...8/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg
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Thank you for the reply. I was actually referring to the motul 300V for the increased cost instead of the 8100. How would you compare the 8100 to the amsoil?

Disclaimer: I have never had a uoa performed. I am basing my following comments from the little reading I have done about oils from the internet. So much information!! Some of it true. Please bear with me.


I am suggesting that Mobil 1 was no good in that engine. I have read a few times that there is no "best oil"; different applications respond differently to different oils.

You are saying that Mobil 1 is consumed at a higher rate than other oils in Subaru engines. How would you rate it's lubricating/anti-wear abilities?
Besides the expense of having to add oil on a regular basis is high oil consumption indicative of anything else?

Thanks for the education.

We like the 8100 as well as the Amsoil, for our purposes we feel the Amsoil is great for extended OCI >7500 miles. The Motul comes back with great numbers with 7500 mile OCI.

-Mike Paisan

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/14...8/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg
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"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

The consumption issue can be an indication of the oil breaking down prematurely and slipping past the rings. We've also seen Blackstone lab reports on the M1 in client cars showing it breaks down significantly quicker than the Motul and Amsoil. (unfortunately I don't have the actual data in front of me).

-Mike Paisan

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/14...8/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg
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"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

All Resource Conserving oils are sometimes consumed at higher rates in turbocharged Subaru's. This is why most Subaru turbo owner's run non Resource Conserving oils like Rotella T6 5W-40, German Castrol 0W-30, etc. The new GF5 oils are a bit better (even Mobil1) and there a few uoa's at bobistheoilguy to back this up. Oils are always changing and what was true a year ago isn't necessarily true today.

That said, I do not use Resource Conserving oils in my turbo Forester but there is no evidence to show that any API SN/ILSAC GF5 Resource Conserving oil is not a good choice for a BRZ/FR-S.

-Dennis

I've used Mobil1 0W-40 with excellent uoa results, but Mobil1 doesn't have a Euro spec 0W-30.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...s/Mobil_1.aspx

If you're talking about 0W-40, it's too thick for your car IMO. If you just want to get rid of it, I would probably use 1 quart and fill the rest with M1 0W-20.

-Dennis

Although Motul has recently reformulated the 300V oils, they still have enough detergents/dispersants for street use. Anyone that says they are for track only and short OCI's has not seen a virgin/used oil analysis on it.

You can always run a 5k mile OCI and do an analysis without drainging the oil. Data FTW. You can also call Motul USA and ask them.

-Dennis

Track day

Oooh my friend drives for Liqui-Moly :D

Was there any sweating involved?

sweating and swearing both happen when its 111F on the track

I can vouch for this.

Cool-Shirt was one of the best additions to the car.

tell me more about the cool shirt, what is this you speak of cool-guy?

Started a new thread:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33271

Obscure rap reference went right over your head.