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Newbie set-up for Sebring, Help!
My 17 year old daughter and I will be attending a DE at Sebring. Looking for suggestions for car set-up. I have done DE at Homestead and Sebring in a 2000 Boxster S. (no driver aids other than ABS) Had a blast. Melted brake sensors and chunked the Michelins. My other toy is a 1986 Porsche 944 Turbo, no driver aides OR ABS.
My 6mt FR-S has a tune, so it is up 15 hp. I have Enkei RPF1 18x8/18x9.5 with Hankook Ventus V12 245/255 tires on the car at present. Also have Eibach's Sportline lowering springs. Everything else is stock. I will be doing a brake fluid change to Motul. Suggestions for pads? I am not sure as novices we need the race pads. I also have the stock rims and tires. Should we use them for her first outing? I was considering replacing the stock tires with a better choice, but not R compounds. Suggestions? Or would we be OK with the car's current wheel/tire set-up? I don't want to destroy the Hankooks. I also have reservations about using the electronic driver aids. I don't have any on my other car so if it was just me, they would definitely be turned off. The FRS is so responsive and gives such good feedback I would prefer that my daughter learn by feeling what the car is telling her without interference. I know there are strong feelings both ways. If it was your daughter, would that make a difference if you would turn them off for yourself? |
I'd turn off the electronic assistance, it doesn't work how it should. In fact the M3 is the only car I've driven where it functioned as one would expect/hope it would. Plus these cars don't have enough power to get in a lot of trouble. The FRS has such good balance, it will be a great car for your daughter to learn on. It's easy to sense and feel the limit on the OEM tires.
Sebring is a rough track. I'd ask Dave-ROR (although I'm sure he will chime in) as he tracks there often. I've heard good things about Hawk pads. I'm sure you will get a lot of fade on the back/front straights and into turn 7 on the OEM pads after a few laps. I can't wait for Saturday @ Sebring for the 12hrs! |
I would absolutely NOT turn the stability control off. Granted, you won't get the raw experience, but the nannies are there to help her if she over-drives & potentially gets herself into a hairy situation.
I'm a PCA instructor & normally never use the nannies, but I was up @ Roebling a few weeks ago & used itin the rain, as I was pushing pretty hard for conditions, and it kept me from some agricultural excursions twice. She can jettison the nannies once she gets very comfortable & confident in the car & her abilities. And to your point, if it were my daughter... |
Katie is a good confident driver. She isn't reckless. She will also have an instructor on board. If we were driving my old C6 or another high horsepower, high speed car, I would be more inclined to use the nannies.
Why should she learn to drive two "different" cars? One with nanny and then one without. I learned and am still learning without anything other than ABS. I wouldn't disable that. General opinion seems to be that in the FRS the other "stability controls" kick in before you are even doing anything wrong. That's why I'm also looking for car setup suggestions to maximize feel and control and minimize the need for stability control. |
Uh... Okay... Sorry for the suggestion. Lol
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What is your perspective on the FRS stability control? Do you think it improves the feel of the car or does it interfere with the feel?
I'm not saying you are wrong, just giving more information and my concerns. Feel free to disagree. Looking for imput. |
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I've never driven those specific Hankooks but outside of melting them I wouldn't worry too much. If you can replace the rubber on the OEM wheels with something better (AD08, RS3, RE11, Rivals, etc) then go for it but absolute maximum traction shouldn't be a concern for a track novice. Just get something good enough not to chunk into pieces from the increase in temp. Quote:
My experience with traction control on these cars isn't very good. It sucks. It's fine on the street and I don't really turn it off on the street since there's no real reason to but it's off at the track, usually entering turn 3 because it's already activated leaving pit exit since I always forget to turn it off in advance. If you leave it on you will get the impression that the car has ZERO traction and is a horrible car, take it off and you'll end up wondering what the hell it was complaining about before. Also, unless you do the pedal dance to put the car in diag mode, you will see the slip light flash under braking, especially when there are bumps (ie everywhere at sebring). Just learn to ignore that, or put the car in diag mode which will disable TCS, VSC, and EBD/Panic Brake. |
+1 on pads and fluid. I don't have first hand experience, but enough people have said the OEM brake pads don't hold up to track use that I wasn't willing to try it and went straight for track pads.
As far as traction control goes, I think that it is very intrusive and overly sensitive. At the same time, I would not turn everything off her first time out. I would just put it in VSC sport mode (which is still overly intrusive, imo) and then decide later on if she is comfortable enough to turn everything off. |
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We will be running the Chin event on April 13. I have the Sportline springs. The FR handled the bumps at normal speeds at parade lap speeds ( which were faster than expected). Tires are about the same as stock. I have hit the stops on some large dips on the street, though. The brake pads will be updated. Still working out which ones will be best for a DD that sees occasional track duty. My concern for the tires is finding something that won't be destroyed, not max traction. May just go with the Hankooks I have on and see how it goes. Thanks for the advice on Stability Control and instructor. She will be learning the course on iRacing so it won't be totally new. |
@maj75: We have pads and fluids, and can customize a package for you. Send me a PM and we'll go over your needs so that we can get you the right stuff.
Sounds like your daughter is being groomed to become a race driver... |
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@maj75: PM sent; need more info to recommend pads! |
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They're probably great for street and light canyon use! (I have no experience with these outside of the track). |
I'll throw in a quick plug for the project mu club racer pads I got from you guys. I loved them. Zero fade, great bite, minimal wear, work well cold or hot, only minimal noise on the street.
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I feel like nobody believes me when I say I daily with race pads... I'd let them go for a quick spin around the block with my car, but I've had bad experiences with that.... :brokenheart: |
Dave has far more experience at Sebring so I'm sure his description of the braking zones would be worth more. However, from looking at his track video, he drives a lot harder than we will :confused0068:
My DE experience at Homestead was driving a really strong 2000 Boxster S. I used stock pads and had zero fade. Porsche really knows how to design a high performance stock brake system. I did melt the brake sensors on three wheels and pretty much chunked the front Michelin tires... |
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Sorry about what happened to your car...:cry: |
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Maj: A buddy of mine signed up with his 240 for the 13th, so I signed up as well. I'll see you there. |
That's great! Will have some friends from SoFla there as well.
Here is my prep so far: Motul brake, tranny and diff fluid flush Carbotech XP8 pads Goodridge stainless brake lines Kumho Ecsta XS, stock size on stock wheels Kartboy shifter, shifter bushing Not track prep specific, but: Fa20club tune Fa20Club CAI APR splitter Crossing my fingers for a good instructor. |
I want to see that splitter!
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Here it is:
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Cool, I'll take a look at it in person in a few weeks :)
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If a parking bumper doesn't eat it first;)
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For what its worth I did my first track day recently in a Toyota 86 GTS. Mods were:
Ferodo DS2500 front pads Yokohama ADVAN a048 tyres 215/45R17 I hit every lap in each 20min session as hard as I could and didn't suffer any brake fade. By contrast there was another GTS 86 with stock tyres and pads. He needed one cool down lap for every two hot laps to compensate for brake fade. Front pads allow you to get the most out of the day. |
In terms of driver aids I left them on for the first few sessions just to help build confidence. After a while they started to cut in too much for my liking and I turned them off. The car is so inherently stable that I didn't feel at-risk even when I completely ballsed-up a corner or brake point.
I'd suggest starting with the driver aids on with an aim of finishing the day with them off. |
@maj75 are you planning on going with nasa? I'm thinking about going too.
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I'm going with Chin.
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We are here! Hoping the rain holds off for tomorrow.
Will try to get a couple of pics up, no GoPro yet. |
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Remember to be smooth with your inputs, always be looking as far ahead as you can (the car will go where you look, vision is so important in this sport) and as you try to pick up the pace, make small adjustments. Oh yeah, have fun too! Your car sounds like its set up perfectly for track duty. I will probably be at the next chin and/or NASA event as well. I'm at Roebling this weekend with NASA. See you at the track! |
In other words, don't do dumb things like I did today...
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m_Iy6gTPVg"]Bad downshift going into turn 1 at Sebring. Subaru BRZ / Chin Motorsports 4-13-13 - YouTube[/ame] And no, I don't remember letting go of the wheel briefly, I assume I was trying to move my hands. |
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Try braking earlier and lighter - as you come under the bridge. Gives you more time to get the shift done and compose the car before turn in, without overslowing the entry. |
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Nice save!
Thankfull we avoided anything dramatic. My daughter did something similar in turn 7 because she let out the clutch too soon after downshifting into 2nd. I did most of the sessions and had a great time. Really love what this car can do on the track. Car was flawless despite numerous trips above the factory redline. The FA20club tune must have raised the over-rev cut to closer to 9K. Hit it a few times :eyebulge: The Carbotech XP8 pads worked great. No fade at any time. I'm not sure about the stock size Kumho Ecsta XS on stock wheels. They were predictable, that's about the best I can say. They didn't shed tread like normal tread pattern tires. Next time I might try a little higher tire pressures. I ran 36 lbs, cold, all around. Steve was a great instructor. After a ride along in his 996 the laps in the FRS seemed a little like slow motion. He made my daughter feel as comfortable as possible, given her first drive at Sebring was in the warmup session sandwiched between a M3 and a 911. I can't wait for the May event at Sebring! |
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Here's a few laps from an earlier session and two from the session when that near spin happened, the near spin is at the beginning of the second lap in the second video.. Two laps from session 2: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY9Y4XaGwv4"]Subaru BRZ - 2 laps at Sebring Full Course with Chin Motorsports - YouTube[/ame] Two laps from session 4: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPJIArcuR7M"]Subaru BRZ - 2 more laps at Sebring Full Course with Chin Motorsports including a mistake. - YouTube[/ame] |
There is not a lot of run-off area on that track....my undies disappeared into my ass just watching that clip. I can't imagine how far up yours went :(
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