Leave the Nannies On!
 

Just want to remind everyone to leave the stability control on.

This past weekend, it was sunny and about 30 deg in the Minneapolis area. Roads were dry and so conditions were right to take the BRZ out to stretch her legs. Anyway, I was on an on-ramp (behind an Odyssey so definitely not going too fast) and realized how valuable the stability control system is.

The roads were dry except under the bridge for this on-ramp. The sun was high enough that snow was melting and what I didnt' realize was how icy it was under there where the melting snow runoff was going through.

Before I knew it, my back-end was sliding out (road was slightly banked) and the stability control took over. The icy patch was probably 60 feet long and going around 40 MPH, all it took was a second for all this to happen.

I don't think I would have been able to recover without the stability control. :respekt:

So the lesson here is: Leave the nannies on folks!

Good post! I leave my nannies on during normal driving... If I want to have some fun I just put it in "Sport Mode" or whatever. When I am pretending to be a drift king in an empty parking lot I turn everything off like a boss! :party0030:

Just noticed you're in Minneapolis. We have a thread here for locals if you're interested.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=3379&page=54

See my avatar? No, I like them off :)

But seriously, these electronic aids are great for people who transitioning from AWD to RWD, esp the sport mode; awesome for light small angles without ending up in the ditch (although I find it little too intrusive).

Yeah, no real reason to drive with computers off when you're not trying to have fun, but at the same time nothing really substitutes for situational awareness-- no amount of computing power is going to save the car if you encounter a scenario where there's no grip to be had. Always good to be paying attention to the surfaces you're driving on!

Or, learn how to drive. ;)

I reflexively correct traction problems (years of open track, autocross, and carting). But I agree, there is no reason to have the nannies off unless you are planning on doing something stupid, and you shouldn't be doing something stupid on public roads.

If you haven't had professional "high performance driving" instruction then that should be your first "mod" for your car. Forza and Gran Turismo don't count.

^ this.

Incoming professional drivers who tell you those are for people who don't know how to drive.

lol... u beat me to it.


There's no shame in driving with them on. As light as the twins are its pretty easy to get it sideways when you don't mean to (especially with our Prius tires on!!). I am an experienced sports car driver and I've even had a close call with oversteer going into a bridge section. I would say I was less then 6 inches from wiping my tail across the guard rail.

Hmmm.... were you driving on the off ramp near 94/35E heading west just out of downtown st paul? Because THAT was where I almost shit my pants the other day, lol.

I'm just glad they're not mid-engined. We've got an Elise at home and as fun as that car is to drive it always makes me little nervous, especially trailbraking into downhill or off-camber corners. The light weight makes it way more difficult for me to feel what the car is doing and because of the layout it tends to rotate very quickly once you break traction-- you need real Jackie Chan hands to catch it tidily. I'm hoping the BRZ will be a bit more progressive :3

I had a smartcar. Mid-engine, RWD, very short wheelbase. On ice you could tell it was constantly on the verge of getting out of control but as soon as it started to spin stability control would straighten you out.

Cue mental picture of smartcar being Chris Harris'ed around a frozen lake.

I can't speak for Forza, but: This.

But seriously, he's right. If you have no experience driving, and want to spend money on upgrading your car - whether it be tires, intake, exhaust, turbo, whatever - you should seriously invest in a driving school or a few HPDE events with instruction first.

I learned to drive on a RWD car that had no "nannies" and I can't imagine trying to drive with them on. Even in critical situations, I find they're FAR more intrusive than helpful to an experienced driver. I've even had them cause a crash that would have been otherwise avoidable (due to them not letting me apply throttle since the car was sliding on an icy road, just barely clipped a pole which could have been avoided had the car not taken control).

Learning to drive with the assistance of DSC, and TSC, and VSC, and whatever other *SC's they put on cars leads to bad habits. You can't rely on the computer to save your ass. Be a better driver first.

EDIT: QFT:

Cause they are. :)

Not a fair comparison, they had a solid weeks education before being set into the real world again and many of the competitors did have prior competitive driving experience. You can understand academically what the car is doing and how to correct it but the "feel" of a corner losing traction only comes with experience. But I'm sure you were just being facetious.

You can go on and on about how real drivers don't need the aids and awareness is key blah blah blah

There are too many variables in the real world to say these are unnecessary for any more than 1% of drivers. They saved my ass a few weeks ago when a lady changed lanes doing 5 mph when I was doing ~45 mph (No need to tell me I should have been going 20mph slower to begin with, lesson learned), I slammed on the brakes and the ABS kicked in, I've never explored the limits of traction on this particular freeway (or any freeway for that matter) and in that moment there is no way I would have trusted myself, or anyone, to be able to toe the line between maintaining traction and skidding into the land of jacked up insurance rates and a wrecked Toyobaru.

Leave the aids on for day to day driving, it won't kill you, there are too many variables on todays roads to take the chance of ruining a life.

Mine are off every time, every day, rain or shine.

-Andrew

I know all the pro racers claim driving skill can make up for the nannies, but part of the reason some of these nannies exist is because they do things that otherwise wouldn't be humanly possible without a larger margin for error.

A pro could no doubt correct an unexpected "oh shit" situation, but could a pro correct an unexpected "oh shit" situation in the distance or space the nannies can? MAYBE, but you gotta be daaaaaaamn good.

Either way driving with the nannies off when you aren't trying to have some fun is boneheaded anyway :happy0180:

Mine are generally all off. I don't commute in my BRZ, so if I'm driving it, it is usually for fun. My warm weather daily driver is a modified Miata with no driver aids, not even ABS.

Nope, this was in the Hwy 101 exit to Hwy 212 West, in the SW Metro. I'm sure this type of condition is present in many an on-ramp in our area. I now look at the bridge icing warnings in a whole new light. ;)

Lack of ABS was one of the two big factors (the other being running costs) that persuaded me not to buy an old 911. Sure, I'm sure it would be fine while you're out for a drive, but at 2AM after 18 hours at work or a zillion hours into some awful road trip I don't trust myself to be awake enough to threshold-brake properly in an emergency.

I was coming back to work from lunch today, and took a corner in a spirited manner. I was pushing it fairly hard, but not totally to the limits. The curve went up over a slight hill, and I couldn't see the pavement ahead, although I'm familiar with the curve. Well, there was some runoff from some melted snow just after the crest of the hill, and when I hit it, it started to come out sideways on me at 35mph. As I felt it come loose, I had just started to let off the gas, and let the wheel counter steer when I felt the nannies kick the right brakes hard, and BAM!, I was straight. Pretty damned good. It's sort of scary to "what if" the scenario, wondering what would have happened without the nannies... I'd like to think my countermeasures would have been good enough, but given the slick ground and speed, I'd say there's a good chance I would have had a hard time keeping it straight...

I'll be honest, I've driven the car enough now that I know by feel when the car will start to slide. It's one of the most forgiving cars (out of what I've driven) in that aspect too.

The only reason I drive with my nannies off is in the event i feel like playing with the oversteer of the car. I'll often times go out late at night and play around with my skinny prius tires while i still have them on my car. Getting new wheels/tires soon and its my intent to have ruined the stockers by the time they get here. The car is so easy to hang the back end out that even an unexperienced driver should be able to get the hang of it with a little deserted parking lot / industrial complex work. (I will admit, i spun it 3 times my first day playing drift king, but don't tell anyone!)

I went through one really bad winter with. Once I got snow tires on it going through the snow was great.

Wow! How did I ever survive all these years without VSC, TCS, ABS, and EBD. Not to mention SRS, TPMS and the DRLs.

Subaru goes on to say (not that we need to to be told this) that "All Subaru vehicles sold by Subaru of America, Inc. are designed and built for normal driving conditions. The Subaru Limited Warranty, as well as the Subaru Added Security System program, excludes damage or failure resulting from modifications or participation in competition or racing events". *

* source: Brochure - 2012 Subaru of America, Inc. 13.BRZSRB.525 (S-13466, 80k, 4?12, (CG)

Lol. Agreed.

I do commute in my FR-S and I ALWAYS leave them on when I'm driving on the street. The street isn't a place to have the ass end out anyway. So why do you need the aids off on the street again?!?

There are plenty of trackdays, autoX, and drift events if you want to have fun, that's where I have my fun!

There was a time where no nannies existed, and nobody was slideways at every corner. I personally just like having more control over the car. I learned how to drive in s30z's... Kinda used to it. But that's me.

I was actually in 830th place in 2012 GT Academy using a G27 wheel with no prior experience in real life. My first time ever at the track was in August 2012, where the instructor was very surprised at how well I was tackling corners and how well I kept my car handling neutral with very little over/understeer. He joked that he didnt need to be in the car with me, but then of course as a 'newbie' there were some things I had to improve on that I would never had gotten with GT5.

But I do understand where youre coming from and I agree with you, GT5 can only do so much but in real life nothing beats feeling the G forces pushing you back and forth and side to side. :D

When it's raining outside and you have a RWD car, and there's traffic and minivans, rain and ice and everything else that against the word "Sport", you should definitely leave Traction Control = ON otherwise you could crash cost you over $10k or lose your car just seeking some cheep thrills on a public road. I just think we should be levelheaded and lighthearted in driving the brz with respect.

Here's a example where a minor skid problem becomes a major skid on the highway
( Ferrari F458 Crashes When Trying To Overtake)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN3pdfgG48c"]Ferrari F458 Crashes When Trying To Overtake - YouTube[/ame]


p.s.- I have much better faith in the 86 in a rain skid than the red pontoon boat

Technical term for that guy is "Non-driving Fucktard." :clap:

There was also a time with no seat belts and air bags. By your logic please remove those from your car. Why make your car less safe?

Let's remove ABS while at it ;)

Looks like he gave it too much gas on the pass and the rear stepped out...which wouldn't be a problem if he had corrected. That's what sent him into the wall. Can't see the driver yank on the wheel in the video as the C-pillar of that car blocks the view, but that's my guess.

Nannies have their place, but they are not always helpful.

Improved driver competence and confidence is always good.

OP, this is a great learning opportunity. Thanks for sharing.

The Ferrarri spun out and crashed because he applied too much power. Likely his spin was because he had too little experience in the car and tried to acclelerate when he should not have. I had a car that acted very similar. My 2007 BMW M Coupe (Z3 based hard top coupe) The power was more than the short wheelbase car could handle if you turned off the traction control entirely. So you had to learn where the cutoff point was between handling and power.

This car (the BRZ) only requires you to learn how to snap the car back into control by a couple of easy methods, which is easier than any real factory spec sports car that I have owned in stock form. For me this is car is better than any mid engine layout or RWD factory car that I have dirven. BMW's and Audi's are much heavier, and the Alfa Romeo 4C is a carbon chassis and aluminum body that will be a great sports car, but will cost 75.000 plus dollars. To be able to have such a great handling car at such a low price makes me feel like we have found the bargain of the century..............

Looks like as he added power and pulled left he felt the tail start to go, applied opposite lock and jumped off the gas-- the weight transferred and he didn't take the steering out quick enough and it sent him right into the wall.

Originally I thought he overcorrected, but wasn't sure without seeing his hands. Either way, he lifted and the car ended up in a wall. Thanks for your insight.

Also could the occupants of the lead car be any more stereotypically Italian? My god...