Exhaust to go with twin screw supercharger
 

Seeing as we're about to find out proper numbers for the twin screw s/c kit, it would be worth discussing the exhaust options that best compliment the system.

I've ignored the exhaust section of the forum to be honest, but I stumbled in there last night and was litterally shocked at the improvements Nameless are seeing with their new headers and full exhaust.

I didn't trawl through all 60 pages of that particular thread, but damn talk about removing the torque dip!

That setup with the twin screw is going to be such a great DD setup.

Surely others have stumbled/been thinking about this combination. (Nameless headers + twin screw S/C)

I'm sure theres other great header options as well, I haven't looked past Nameless yet, hah.

For me, I'd like to run the twin screw s/c (pending test driving the bullet demo) replace the stock headers, overpipe, and front pipe; and keep the stock mid pipe and rear muffler. I haven't found any info about real gain from changing the mid pipe and muffler, for what I want to acheive anyway. Keeping these two pieces will make for a nice quiet and stealthy setup.

From what I've seen there is one company that posted gains similar to Nameless, but they needed E85 to get them. At this point I think Nameless will be the best way to go.

I think so far P&L have had the best results from headers. The nameless plot looks nice but there are several caveats. It's not a production piece, it's been in beta forever much like some FI kits. There is still a torque dip, the P&L piece has no dip at all. The nameless dyno plots include their beta intake as well which has also been in beta forever. Who knows what impact that's having when comparing dyno plots. The P&L plot starts where the nameless dip has moved to.

I'm curious to see how any of the superchargers take to the better exhaust setups we have. I'm sure there is plenty of power to be had. The lack of comparative data on exhausts sucks right now. All the nameless stuff is in beta. The P&L numbers come off one car that was remote tuned under duress. JDL hasn't posted a dyno of what his setup does with a tune. Borla dynos are MIA. AP dynos are a joke. Perrin isn't making headers.

it'll probably be another 6 months of that needy visconti posting
idiot useless teasers before you see some real numbers.

If you look at the P&L plot, they are starting the pull at 3,250 rpm.. i have to ask why that is.....

If you look at nameless on the 1.625 4-2-1 header results.. the bottom of the dip is at 3,250 rpm...

so, unless P&L wants to post a plot with a run starting lower than 3,000 rpm like nameless did I'm going to assume they have the same torque dip.

Not knocking P&L just pointing out the obvious here. Their gains look good. Nameless looks better. Nameless is still in beta because they are still testing a few changes to get the best power they can....

It won't be long before they are ready to start production. Personally I'm waitting for nameless. P&L is a good option too and at a lower price point most likely.

Yeah, I agree that it's kinda frustrating trying to compare data when testing is far from standardized. I mean, the P&L guys didn't even try to optimize their tune for their NA parts on pump gas. They were doing a remote tuning session.

You would think that someone that did that much hard r&d on parts would just pay someone who gets results to fully optimize a tune for them and post those results to the board. Not a freaking e85 tune which only 5% of the people will run either. :bonk:Some vendors don't even bother to post any reasonable dyno results with a tune. :bonk::bonk:

I'm ok with it. I'm just lightening my car and playing with my unichip and dynolycious. I'm sure as these parts (P&L) make it out into the wild we'll see some more usable data.

The best I could find:

I'm a Nameless fanboi, but let's keep the record straight.

seful.

So true^


Thenittis.com

blue is stock, the pulls with the header start after 3k. I'm not slinging mudd, just saying if they start the pull near the bottom of the dip you won't see the dip. Not saying it's there just that if it is, starting a run that late will mask it.

after all the plots i have seen, and my own time on the dyno, I think I'm going to talk to nameless and see if they can tune a header to be slightly more biased towards 4,750 and up....

The stock torque dip is partially tuning, but mostly the stock header and both the P&L and the Nameless 1.625 do a fantastic job of turning the dip into a mountain....

But most of the plots i have seen on tuned stock etc or with exhaust.. there is still that week sag area from 4750 to about 6500. My Ideal header would lift the torque curve everywhere, flatten the dip so it is non existant , and make a boat load of power from the far side of what used to be the dip up to 8k or so.

I would prefer

Truth...

-Acree

Truth...

-Acree

The torque dip is tuning and will be removable once they figure out what is causing it to not be there on the first dyno but be there every dyno afterwards.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=1215

nameless did not included an intake
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=1049

P&L are showing exhaust & E85, against pump gas. Nameless used 92 octane for all testing.

Tell them if they can do what you said here, they'll have atleast two buyers. I have cash in hand waiting for exactly that.

Regardless of the details, it's hard to get a solid comparison of the two products. A general fuzzy maybe idea? Sort of. Remember the nameless setup had a dedicated tuner spending lots of time optimizing stuff. The P&L pump gas plot is a canned tune. Which still destroyed the dip. :iono:

Normally, we do pulls in 4th and if you start that low in the RPM range it really puts a lot on the car, it dogs, and isn't good stress to be inducing.

Here is another with @FA20Club.com E85 Tune on the car. Hope this helps:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/pandlmotors...dyno-graph.jpg


Dylan@P&L

Well, as Dylan said. The pulls were in 4th gear, and I didn't really want to lug my engine, but I did make sure to get pulls in at lower rpm for the Catted header that is posted above.

It's a personal car, not a shop car... and since I don't work for them, if anything goes wrong with the engine that's money out of my pocket. I'd personally like my car to last a while since I really enjoy driving it.

I did try to get the pump gas tuned from Visconti, but after sending him the logs, it took him 2 weeks to get back to me with an adjustment. His respons was that it all looked good, only the afr needed a tweak.

I also own the @FA20Club.com tune for e85. Tony while on the dyno sent me 7 different tune files, and he even blew me away the other day. After not hearing from me for 2 weeks HE sent ME an e-mail asking how everything was, and if it had any more logs from him. Once again, major :thumbup: for him. His CS is beyond anything i've encountered to date.

I don't know if you've noticed, but there is a shortage of master tuners for this platform, and none are in chicago. The only one willing to travel (visconti) is currently paid for by the big boys and busy with FI work.

Additionally there are more tuning solutions starting to leak out, like your mention Unichip, and brzedit.

From what I hear a few of these will be going out to customers soon, and more data will be coming out.

It's too early to tell what Is going to respond best to a supercharger. Maybe you all could quit bashing on everyone for taking time to actually develop their product before releasing anything. I also don't see why everyone is bashing Visconti about not releasing info, it's not his place to do so.

I don't think that Visconti releasing information was mentioned anywhere in this post thread. He was only brought up because he provided the canned pumpgas tune.

One interesting thing to note, is that the catted header is more linear and produces more torque in the 3300-3900 range. I wonder if it's due to the creation of a little more backpressure... but, I'm not an engineer, so I have no idea.

I did have Dylan whip up another graph for you guys just for schmidts n giggles, and I do believe in providing as much information and transparency as I can to the group.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pandlmotors...a20-graphs.jpg

I had him combine 3 pulls, The FA20 e85 basemap, a run from mid tune, and our final pull. Tony did feel that there was more to be had from the tune, but also with this engine, there are a lot of things to play with. You can work on it all week and go nowhere, but suddenly with 1 small change you get a big jump, and another weeks worth of tweaking to do. We had about 30 dyno pulls, and 7 tune tweaks done over the timeframe that my schedule allowed.

Do I wish I could leave my car on a dyno for a week, and have a tuner devoted to perfecting my tune and posting a dyno of "the most powerful na, stock engine to date"? My ego says absolutely, but that wasn't the goal. With everyone having different setups, exhausts, intakes, as well as atmosphere, altitude, humidity, and even gas quality the goal was to make a solid basemap, and to show gains over stock. Something that P&L and @FA20Club.com did very well imho.

If you go with P&L, or Nameless I'm sure you will be happy with the added torque where the dip was.

My problem with the P&L numbers is the E85 being added in and Nameless says "mild tune" on theirs also. I would like to see numbers direct from stock to header and stock to header with full exhaust.

From my other thread.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/pandlmotors...dyno-graph.jpg

The blue line is the full P&L header back exhaust on 93 and the stock tune, The red line is the same setup with only the Header being changed out, while the green line is just swapping to Visconti's pump gas tune (not optimized for the header).

Looks like visconti tune + this header gets rid of the dip. It is a synergistic effect. Interesting

I suspect that this is the case with most of the tunes out there. When I get the header back on I will look to getting it finetuned and on the dyno to what it can do.

Get some videos too pretty please! Thanks for being the guinea pig!