Must be getting old
 

I’m consistently amused by many of the comments here, and on other forums, complaining about not having automatic HVAC, steering wheel controls, power seats, poor radio quality, purpose of the soundtube, funny noises and rattles, automatic windows that don’t work, and questions about how to drive a manual transmission. I’ve been a car guy since age 3, learned to drive a manual at age 6 driving my fathers’ MG TD with an unsynchronized first gear, no radio, and plastic flaps for windows. My uncle had a 49 VW beetle with an unsynchronized transmission-called a “crash box” because you had to double clutch every shift. My dad also had a 1950 Mercury coupe with a 3 speed on the column and an overdrive that was engaged by pulling a lever below the steering column. High beams were turned on by a button on the floor that you hit with your foot. Starting procedure was pulling out the choke lever, pumping the accelerator 3 times turning the ignition key and pushing the start button. No air-conditioning, no power windows, and a heater that used a slide lever. Did have an AM radio and a manual antenna and an electric analog clock. Changing oil at 3000 miles because you had to, and lubing all the front end joint zerk joints. Having to change sparkplugs every 10,000 miles or when you flooded the engine and had to take them out to clean. Actually doing, and being able to do, a tune up with new points and condenser and then making sure the timing was right, and cleaning the carburetor jets. Adjusting the valves on his 46 Chevy. Enduring vapor lock when the temperature and engine got too hot-pulling over to the side of the road and lifting the hood to let the engine cool and actually hearing the gas in the carburetor boil. Hearing the engine backfire out the exhaust and through the carburetor. Actually having to change a tire yourself. Always taking a full tool kit, including a hammer, duct tape and bailing wire. Carrying a water bag on the front of the car when we drove through the desert. Having to turn the heater on to get more water through the cooling system when the engine ran hot. Actually having to check the oil at every fill up because sometimes it used oil. No windshield washers and only 2 speed vacuum operated windshield wipers that slowed down if you accelerated. Periodically having to change out those cylindrical glass fuses. Gas was $.19 a gallon at the cheap gas station in the “bad” part of town.

Finally my dad updated and bought a 57 Cadillac Fleetwood. Four speed hydramatic automatic transmission, air conditioning, electric windows and trunk, automatic station seeking radio, electric antenna, and “electric eye” automatic high beam dimmer, and power front seats. 300 horsepower V8 with and automatic choke. We were in heaven.

My how times have changed.:)

I agree this is the whiniest (sp?) forums I've been on in over 10 years. The new generation expect flawless cars apparently. There's a bunch of threads showing off single rock chips!

UGGHH.. Double clutching a V-dub... You just brought back LOTS of nightmarish memories for me.

I'm right there with you on some of the complaints here. The first cars I bought were old VW Beetles, and then my first 'newer' car was a 94 Jeep Wrangler. Talk about lack of amenities.

THAT said, in comparison to most newer vehicles built around creature comforts, and more things that used to be 'add-ons' becoming 'standard equipment' to entice the buyer, the FR-S is a bit of a shock in how bare bones it is. I think its just the juxtaposition of expectation built on what people have grown accustomed to over the last 10 years or so against the reality of the car.

And personal opinion here: I really don't think ANYONE should be learning straight drive in this car.

haha i agree completely. It is humorous to see a daily thread about some tiny annoyance from a car. People go out of their way to make youtube videos about these annoyances to. Im like not only did you complain online about it but you wasted time filming and editing a video to voice your complaints.
My first car was an 1982 Mercedes 300D. I was forced to dump 100 bucks or more a week on parts just to keep it running properly. And the car was in fantastic condition!

There will never be a perfect car..ever.

Here's some chees with your whine.

I'm 16 and I agree about most of these things.

Sure, the automatic HVAC looks better, but is it really worth the extra money? Manual HVAC works just as good. If you're cold turn the heat up, if you're hot in the winter turn it down and in the summer you can use the AC, no AC roll down the windows for a breeze.

Steering wheel controls? Everyone knows that a real drivers' car has nothing but the horn.

Power seats? Only for lazy people. Is it really that hard to position the seat by sliding and tilting for less than a minute? Not to mention how much weight it adds with all the motors inside the seat.

As for manual transmissions... I got the theory down, too bad I don't have a car to try and practice in :( I have a learners' permit (G1 for Ontario) and all I have to drive is a 2003 Camry, throttle response is pretty bad with throttle-by-wire, I prefer cable. Once I learn manual and get my own car for sure I'll be driving manual everytime.

Pays $30,000 for a small sports car.....expects $40,000 car luxuries.

http://i.imgur.com/4fZOq.jpg

By comparison I'm also a member of Jeepforum.com and people there don't tend to complain until the engine is about the explode or there are at least 3 electrical issues. Scratches and rock chips are battle scars and if you want A/C you ask the quickest way to take the top and doors off.

I think the target demographic for the car brings in a lot of first time new car buyers and being an inexpensive sports car has enticed some buyers that haven't yet learned how to control their personal/panic response to the car sliding.

If it's any consolation...I grew up with a grandfather who restores Crosleys...until you've driven a fridge with wheels, you got nothing to complain about...LOL

Ahhh the choke, the good ole 2 stroke days.

Im only 17 and i really dont care about heat seaters, hvac, led, push start button, power seats and all that stuff. My first car was a supra mk3, and I had to constantly fix my car, carry tools with me and etc. There is no super luxury dash/console. I had no HD music, NAV, AC, any of those stuff. Sure I wouldnt mind the FRS, but it bothers me how GT86 has everything while the FRS has nothing. Its the same car isnt it?

I know what you mean, I bought this car because it didnt have all those things, I get so sick of people telling me they have a voice activated gps and they still dont know how to use it. I got this car for the pure driving pleasure. I have a 530i that I got for 68k and its fully loaded with crap that breaks, New keys??? cost me 3000 to replace, computer needed reprogramming for 1500. For 27k I'm really happy with the car/frs. This is my car, wife cant drive a stick, and the kids dont fit.. just me..lol

I know the feeling, I always had a half set of tools in my Cobalt SS and now my truck (94 Ram).

You arent suggesting chokes are for 2 stroke motors only are you?

My first car ever was a 93 Honda Civic. I drove that thing for 25k miles without ever changing the engine oil and it was still running strong. I never knew there was such a thing as engine oil at the time, I thought you only have to fill up gas and go, lol.

Now with those hard lessons learned, I do have some very "minor" complaints going with this car, just simply because you would expect these newer technology and old lessons learned history that would already address these issues. But again, I am just fortunate to not have most of the big issues some of these people are having, but when I do, dont expect me to not complain.

I can point out some few flaws with this car if I want to, starting off with the holes on the underbody being one of them. For a new car, I know I have the right to complain about this, again, old lessons not learned yet? hmm..
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29193

I went to college in a 1976 beige Chevy Nova. The choke didn't work, so my dad hooked up a cable to the choke to a push-pull mechanism on the dashboard. The gas peddle would stick at about 5% so I would have to put my foot under the peddle and pull up every time I wanted to stop. In the winter I had to get the gas peddle and manual choke just right to start the car. It was crazy. Do you guys remember setting your timing using a timing light? Remember Bondo? Remember having to spray stuff into your carb in the winter when it wouldn't start? I restored out 1966 Mustang Convertible with my dad in the mid-80s. Nothing like cutting out rust in a 25 degree garage in upstate NY in January!

My first car I learned on was a 1974 Pontiac Catalina with something like a 400 cubic inch V-8, four barrel carb, and bench seats with only a lap belt. You have not driven a boat until you drive a car like that. Pretty much everything I drove was a POS until I bought a 3 year old 96 Corolla back in 1999.

In 8th grade we tour down and rebuilt a Briggs and Straton lawn mower engine. Pretty cool. I doubt they even teach auto body and mechanical repair in high school anymore.

Love the post BUT...
One of my first cars was a 70 Olds Cutlass Supreme. My dad paid $2000 for it. 40 years later the cost is well over 10 times the price while average salary is much less.
Gas was pennies per gallon, now its dollars.
Technology has sky rocketed too.

Mty FR-S has to compare to an Acura RSX that its basically replacing.
I paid about the same, they are about the same size and weight, similar power and style.
The Acura is MUCH smarter! Better build quality, more intuitive layout of nearly everything in the cockpit. I put 200k miles on it and have hardly done anything more than oil changes, breaks and tires. AND I still have it. I spent $1500 on it this past year, for the first time I changed the spark plugs, the front struts and a few other incidentals. It still needs rear shocks and some bushings and yet another set of breaks but engine is smooth, tranny is solid, interior spotless and the body is ok.

Ive had lots of other cars too!
MB E300, CLK 320. Ive also driven some trucks.Honda Accord, Civic and a small variety of other Japanese and American models. VW Sirocco was fun.
Ive had Mustangs; '86 GT 5.0, '71 302 coupe, '66 V8 Convertible. Oldsmobile's! '68, '70, '71, '76 Cutlass Supremes, '98-LS's and a Vicious Bitch '80 Z-28 Camaro Custom HotRod; 400HP 350, 4-speed,
I like cars and I like to drive.
Friends had had awesome cars too, Haha basically just name it!

This is my first Toyota product!

MY CAR MADE A NOISE IS THERE A TSB YET???

Just reminiscing before 4 strokes in the dirtbike/ATV department. I used to do a ton of riding on 2 stroke bikes.

I feel your pain Brother! all these little gripes and worries and about what badge is on the car. I miss wing windows! And what ever happened to real steel cars, including the dash, with metal so thick you couldnt even think about pounding out a dent. A sports car used to be straight rear axle with leaf springs, a-arm front suspension and a big, simple engine. AND a very very small choice in basic aftermarket parts. Some you had to make yourself. All the technology that makes these cars great today is incredible. I wanted a car with few amenities and got it, but it still has electric windows, a fancy radio that connects to your phone (that is not rotary and does not attach to the wall btw), a/c, cruise, more than one radio speaker, airbags. And to even think of owning a new car as a first car, that is great but it takes some getting used to. I take care of my cars and take pride in how they look, but it will get rock chips, it will get dings because it is in a rough environment. But it is also a tool that I can have fun with. I tell people that get a new truck to drive through the brush (minimal scratches that buff out) and mud soon after you buy it and you wont worry so much about all the little crap that happens every day :)

Time to let the crabby old guys go to their Old Timers Thread.

Yes, the whining is annoying, but so is the typical "I'm better than you because I drive stick" attitude.
This is a forum.. What would be the point of discussion if the only thing people ever had to say was "this car is perfect"?
Just because someone points out a flaw doesn't mean they don't appreciate the car.

Oh wow you learned how to drive manual at age 6?
http://files.sharenator.com/watch_ou...300424-535.png

What kind of father lets his 6 year old son drive anyways?

ITT people complaining about people complaining. Also, people complaining about people complaining about people complaining.

My kid will be racing shifter carts at 6/7.... Let alone be able to use a clutch.

What makes me sad is I'm 26, and come from this whiny demographic. I agree with the old man logic though... Just how I was raised. There's an "oh-shit" toolbox in my 3,000mile FRS already, hahahahaha.

I grew up on all aircooleds and Datsun S30's... Hell, I didn't have a/c or automatic windows until my first vw. Honestly, I got rid of my dsg 2008 R32 for the FRS, and the reason I got the FRS was because it was bare. I just wish it had manual windows, lol. I spent so much money on wheels, performance parts, sets of coilovers and air-ride on a car that didn't make me happy. The wonder about the FRS is how fun it is right out of the box. Will I mod it? Sure, but for what I paid for the car, it's so much like an s30 that I'm content. No opticoat, no whining about thin paint, blah blah blah. It's not a Porsche, and I don't expect it to be held to that standard.

Hpfp chirp? Welcome to direct injection people. Taillight condensation? Seal your taillights. Rock chips? Bring it on. It's character.

I bought the car for the fun factor and simplicity. No fancy engine covers or special tools needed. Just you, the car, basic comforts, and that's it. You think these people complain, look at a non-aircooled vw forum. -____-

I know I'm old. I remember turning the crank on my Grandfather's Model A. Later in life when I started driving the only option you could get on a car was a radio. As far as upgrades, you could install a rear seat speaker, fender skirts, cadillac hub caps, shackles, glass packs and blue dot tail lights.

Those memories and habits formed at an early age are probably some of the reasons I appreciate the simplicity of the FR-S over the more "luxurious" BRZ limited.

We all have our back grounds and individual histories. That's why there's such a mix of people, thoughts and attitudes on a forum like this.

I will add that I have to admit sometimes the manual transmission fan boys make me want to gag (even though I do drive a manual). But that too is based on their back ground.
:burnrubber:

damn rookie kids.../smh

tl;dr: Get off my lawn!

I'll have you know back in the 1800s my family vehicle was a one horsepower carriage! And when the horse died and we had to eat it during the Great Famine of '86, we had to push that thing uphill, both ways, in the snow, barefoot! Now these days people don't even have to push their horseless carriages! Modernity sucks! People don't know how good they got it! Raaergaraergafgh!

Ugmm, the best kind?!?

I drove farm equipment before I was 10, and that included trucks used on private roads. They were manual (3 on the tree). Drove my Dad's race car on a dirt track before I was a teenager (not in a race unfortunately).

First car that was "mine" was a 1964 Dodge Polara with a push button automatic transmission that I paid $300 for, drove for 18 months and sold for $400. The guy that bought it from me drove it for another 10 years. My first 4 cars cost a TOTAL of $2000. I ran them until I couldn't afford to fix them or somebody offered me money for them.

My first car was a 1971 Ford Ranchero with the 250hp 302. Ugly, green, built like a tank.

I first learned "tuning" with that car in my front yard when I was 15 with nothing more than book on Ford Small Blocks, a timing light, dwell meter and a vacuum gauge. As much as I hated that car when I owned it, I miss its simplicity sometimes.

My first experience with import engines was with my 1981 Ford Mustang GL hatchback. It had that crappy 95hp 2.3 Mazda-built 4 cylinder that Ford was using in everything back then. I got the thing to nearly 150hp by shaving the head, port and polish, 3 angle valve job, gasket matching and installing a more torque-inducing cam from a Ford Ranger, and changing the carb to a one-barrel with a secondary that I found in a junk yard. Aftermarket? What aftermarket? I did this all myself in the high school auto shop in my spare time.

Everyone used to tell me I was "wasting my time" with that little engine and 4 cylinders would never make any power.

It is fun to reflect back every so often and look at how drastically the field has changed over the last 30 years. I think its narrow-minded to say any era, or technology, or features over the years were better than any other. But I do think its important to remember our roots because every so often, a simple, little car comes along that reminds us of those roots and what makes cars so enjoyable to many of us.

Scott

Don't forget to pump the brakes when you try to stop.....Ive owned 3 Mopars from the late 60's early 70's....while not as technically deficient as cars before, I remember i had some friends who had brand new 300zx TT's and Supra TT's in the mid 90's and i had my '69 Satellite (383 4Barrel), this car had some options.....a radio is basically it. The only option the original owner had ordered was the 383.....so no a/c, No radio, basically a stripped down car, with a decent sized engine
(383 is a decent size, I have owned 2 440/6 powered cars, one was a 69 Dart GT custom build while at NADC, and the other my recently sold 73 Charger SE) all 3 cars were fun to cruise in but cornering was scary and high speed braking was only fun in the Disc brake converted Charger

I agree that it's probably a good idea to start young (on private roads), but at 6 I doubt OP could even see over the steering wheel. Personally I wouldn't let a 6 year old drive my car, considering how immature and irresponsible they are.

If you learned how to drive at age 6 good for you, and I'm sure you're a better driver because of it. But there's no need to brag about it.

Don't think he was bragging just stating a fact. It was certainly a different time.

Even today most kids have driven some type of wheeled vehicle not too far after that time. It might not be a car but they know the basic mechanics.

In general people lack of sense of history. That way we lack an appreciation of how far we have come.
I just finish reading "Crash Course: The American Automobile Industry" and "Once Upon a Car." I learned a lot.
It nice to hear from members here who have such a broad experience with cars.
:happy0180:

My car feels Lexus-like compared to the rattling, wind-roaring, highway-droning stock MR2 I've been driving the past several years.. I didn't realize sports cars were suppose to be so quiet :D

I hate soft-tops & automatic HVAC too :thumbdown: ..This car is perfect!

I traded in my 2001 BMW 325ci convertible for my FRS and it was loaded. Leather, sport package, 5 speed, auto and electric EVERYTHING, buttons, switches, and even seat position memory depending on which key I used to start the car!

You know how much I miss those "creature comforts"?.

NOT AT ALL!

Down the road I will likely buy another luxury car that has all those bells and whistles for cruising to the golf course and entertaining clients, but I will still have the FRS for when I want to enjoy driving.

Scott

Scott

I wish people would stop throwing around the terms drivers car.

FRS/BRZ isn't a drivers car, its just some car that can corner improperly correctly, if that makes any sense.

You want a drivers car?
Go buy a 911.

Personally, little things like minor rattles and fuel pump chirps don't bother me. However, in defense of the people they do bother, when you can buy, say, a brand new GTI for the same price and have damn near perfection from it in regards to refinement, I can see where one would expect the same thing from the twins.

the GTI and this car is like comparing apples to oranges. imjustsayin
Theres a reason this car is on all the automotive shows, magazines.

When i was in high school i drove a 88 honda civic with no ac or power steering and a 1.5l motor that ran on 3 cylinders. (which i discovered one day when i was messing around and pulled a spark plug wire and nothing changed)

and i loved it. learned to work on cars by keeping that thing alive. i made 7 bucks an hour and saved up to buy adjustable dampers and eibach springs. that car handles like a champ, but still could barely get up to highway cruising speed.

But it just isn't like comparing apples to oranges, is it? Obviously they're very different cars, but both being sporty cars and having similar price points and power outputs makes them worthy competitors to the average buyer. So, especially for the point I'm trying to make, they can definitely be compared.

An AWESOME father that's who!:party0030:

shit, my dad didn't teach me to drive til I was 13. :thumbdown:

My dad owned an MG-TD. He's 72.

OP is OLD!

Times have changed. Just as you don't expect to be able to ride a horse and buggy down the interstate. Different world, different production capabilites, massive leaps in technology and thus a natural correspondence in expectations in relation to what's available in the world today.

In 1932, It would be strange to expect 30mpg's with HD radio, push button start, remote keyless entry and heck, RADIAL TIRES, not to mention computer controlled fuel injection, 100hp/liter or crumple zones. In fact it'd be unimaginable in 1932. On most (if not all) cars of that day it's be crazy to expect disc brakes or overhead cams! But alas, today we have expectations of what's both abundantly available and inexpensive to produce and there's nothing wrong with those expectations! They are equivalent to the expectations of car buyers of the 1930's in expecting what's available at the time, and this time is different then that time. We want/expect what's available and affordable of what's being produced today, with current production capabilities and current/existing levels of technology.

Other than the luxuries mentioned in the OP, the parts regarding safety and efficiency are ludicrous. We should have high expectations of safety and efficiency/cleanliness. Remaining alive and breathing clean air, not to mention consuming less oil... last time I checked... pretty damn good things.

Back in early days of Formula 1 there was no focus on safety and multiple folks died every year until 1976 (first year in F1 with no fatality). Now technology and safety standards have massively advanced. Today we don't expect drivers to die every year now do we? Of course not, we expect the opposite.

When it comes to efficiency, our expectations of our cars is not high enough IMHO. This is why I'm excited about SkyActiv-D. It's meeting an expectation I've had about cars/engines for the last 5-10 years.

It does society no good to preach the lowering of expectations. Our expectations should always be a step beyond what available today regardless of how tough life was when "I was your age".

LOL. I had a 911. The FR-S I have is the best "drivers car" I've ever owned. On top of that, when you consider $24,200.00, not only is it the best but that makes it almost unbelievable.
:burnrubber: