vs. 128i
 

Two small-ish, 2 door, RWD, "rear seats", NA cars.
The 128i is heavier, but still sporty.
A used one would be close in price to a new 86.

http://vlane.com/img/chrome/10782.jpg

BMW vs Subaru & Toyota.

128i
- Expensive Parts
- Expensive Everything
- EURO Car? Expensive everything! :D
- BMW Status
- 230 HP.
- More Luxuries.

FR-S/BRZ
- 200 HP
- JDM? Cheaper parts!
- Lighter
- Toyota / Subaru

That aside; I would rather see myself in a BRZ/FR-S, they look more sporty, and it just appeals to me more than a 128i (plus the satisfaction of a brand new car); if I go into the 1-series area I wouldn't be satisfied;

135i
1M

In the terms of the two biggest factors that will cause people to cross shop these two cars (price and performance), this is a pretty pointless comparison because the price and performance of the two cars are vastly different.

The markets for the cars are way different as well

yeah, if I were to cross shop the FR-S today it'll be against the Hyundai Gen Coupe..
The BMW 128i is more often cross shopped with an Audi TT.

and Yes German parts are expensive .. thats why I want to trade in my ride before 30K

Well, sure, part prices are...relevant? idk. But, an Audi TT isn't even close to the same caliber of car. The 128i and 86 are both RWD and fun to drive. The TT will drive around the course for you. I don't really have a point, I just know that my short list includes 128i, 86, Z3 coupe and...? The genesis does not interest me at all. The Mustang, although the best of all domestic (US) muscle cars does not interest me at all. I just want something that is as small as possible yet can haul around myself, a friend, my dog and my bike / other stuff. And that I can take to the track and have fun with.

I can see why you are cross shoping these two. but the 128i will have much better low end torque with peak torque at 3500RPM, while the FRS will have torque up high at 6600rpm. Different feeling and quicker than the FRS. the FRS hopefully will be very responsive and climb RPM quickly to make up for it tho.
Just test drive both and let us know what you think.

will the 128i really be in the low-mid $20k range? I figured it would be closer to $30k.


The 1 series looks absolutely ridiculous to me. Am I the only one that feels that way? It screams girl car to me (no offense to the girls). It just really looks like something rich college girls would drive.

I'd buy a 10 year old 3 series before I bought a 1 series.

Agreed, im partial to the 330ci myself, but they have the same engine in them which is pretty dam good for what it is.

If you had a choice between the FR-S and a 1 series why the hell would you choose the 1 series unless all you care about is the badge and picking up dumb women who see the BMW badge and automatically drop their pa...oh I see

Lots of people think the 1 series looks ridiculous and I'm not going to even try to defend it's looks. I'm more of a "what the car can do" person than a "what the car looks like" person.

The FR-S is still the front runner, I just like playing out the other possibilities. Panty dropping abilities do not matter to me in the slightest. I use my amazing charisma to accomplish that :P

Vastly? Price yea sure, performance not really. Just for comparison, 3200lb/230ps is 13.9lb/ps, 2700/200 is 13.5lb/ps.

BMW underrated the 128i engine. It's not 230 hp, it's actually 255-260hp.

No LSD...no thank you

Pounds per horsepower is largely a meaningless number when comparing the performance of cars. Performance is typically measured with acceleration, top speed, track times, lateral grip, etc. Since most people who buy cars will be driving them on the street, things like top speed, track times, lateral grip, et al are just as meaningless as pounds per horsepower. All that's really left for street performance is (straight-line) acceleration, which is still likely going to be vastly different between the FR-S and the 128i.

The 128i has the same acceleration of a Camry V6. The FR-S will only be .5 seconds slower. I would rather be .5 seconds slower than a 128i and 600 lbs lighter since it's one of the ugliest cars ever made IMHO. FR-S>>>>128i

Toyota GT86
200 PS
0-100 km/h: ~6,5 sec
V-max: ~230 km/h
~27.000 €

BMW 125i (E82)
218 PS
0-100 km/h: 6,4 sec
V-max: 245 km/h
35.500 €

The 1 Series is still heavy compared to the Toyota and also more expensive. You could make it a better car, 130i rebuild (265 PS), Drexler LSD, M3 suspenssion, KW CS coilovers, Supersrint headers, catless pipes, straight pipes, muffler, CF air intake, short shifter, weight reduction,....but it will cost to much, you could already get a Cayman or rebuild the GT86.

Ignoring the part about top speed and pounds per horsepower (see my previous post)...

I don't know where you got your numbers, but estimates about acceleration for the FR-86 is about 7 seconds 0-60, maybe high 6s. The 128i is in the low 6s (6.1 according to BMW's web site: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx).

Of course YMMV depending on various factors I've mentioned in my previous post. My point here is that (street) performance is vastly different between the two such that this is meaningless to compare based on the factor. Same goes with price.

Other factors are of course valid. Some people don't like the look of the 1-series. Fine. Some people don't want all the luxury gizmos in the 1-series. Fine too. But price and performance are two factors that are vastly different, and for most people, those are the two primary factors for cross shopping cars.

Power to weight is the most reliable performance-predicting metric available.

Similar power/weight => similar 0-60 and 1/4-mile time/speed. This car should be close to 6 seconds to 60, low 14s at ~96mph in the 1/4.

The 128i BMW is MUCH more expensive, it's a totally different league then the GT86

What's this crazy talk about power-to-weight not being important? Blasphemy..

Anyhow, My younger brother has a 128 and I drive it often. It would be great if the FR-S/BRZ had the same driving dynamics but that's about as far a stretch as a comparison can be made. The interior alone is night and day.

If it's correct information that gt 86 díd beat impreza wrx time in 'ring, then i believe it has much more better real life performance than 128i. Albeit they have quite same straight line performance.

128i is much more daily commuter than track car. And its pricey.

128i Experience
 

I now drive a 128i. They're fun, and there are some similarities with the BRZ. They're both rear wheel momentum cars with a very well set up chassis, fine brakes, and very good (though electrically assisted) steering.


Best features? It's a great grand touring car, at 60, 90 or 120 mpg. Stable, planted, yet still responsive. And those sport seats... they feel better and better the longer the drive.

But I feel every one of those extra 450 pounds whenever I corner. And my pocketbook is aware that the grip is purchased by expensive soft compound tires and the braking by BMW's infamous soft compound brake pads. I can't bring myself to describe my 128i as tossable. Instant turn in? I think not. Autocrossing? insufficiently nimble. Track days? Not sufficiently exciting to justify $1300 worth of tires at frequent intervals, not to mention brake pads.

I think I'll be trading one very good car for another... different... very good car.

I'm completely cross shopping the FR-S and the 128i. I'm 22 and taking a new job. It's time for a new car. I'm gonna have to drive 100+ miles a day for this job so...

They're two very different machines but when you put in my criteria they're the only two cars that come up.

New.
Under 35k.
RWD.
Not ugly.


Nothing quite drives like a BMW, but yet the FR-S should be tight and sharp and more appealing as a drivers car... BUT, I gotta drive this thing 100+ miles a day for five years. In five years am I really gonna be happy with the FR-S? What about fit and finish? If the inside looks anything like any toyota I've seen recently, I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I could stand it. Maybe I could drape some black scrim over it and just feel around for the controls. Afterwards I could do a nice second gear powerslide and all be well, right?

Then, in five years when I pay off the loan... If I buy the FR-S I'll have an awesome second car. I could take it out on sunny weekends and have serious fun, but the BMW will just be an entry level bimmer, when likely my next car is gonna be a nicer BMW.

If you think you get a lot more frills in the BMW, you're wrong. A basic 128i has, uh, a decent stereo and auto climate control. Power windows and locks, etc... likely the FR-S will have all the same basic options and maybe more.

I've driven a 128i and it drives like it should. It's a small BMW. It's almost perfect except it's a little shakable compared to a 3-series and a little heavy compared too.... an FR-S.

I wish I could just go drive an FR-S and calm these voices in my head, but no, I can't. So I just go over it all over and over again.

Is the FR-S really gonna be fun enough to be worth all the... toyota-ness of it?

To answer your question. No. I feel the same way, it is ugly as hell IMO.

Well, not ugly?? Anyway.....

At least be prepared, that the 128 will not really reach the sports level of the old BMWs.
As you have seen the car is about 1.5 tons - right about the same as a Corvette.
And there are these stupid runflat tires, which perform really poor in the wet - they loose grip rather suddently, not good for drifting. In addition they are quite small for such an heavy car. But stay away from the tires of the 135i (215 front / 245 rear), as this will sure give you pretty much understear.

Have you ever considered a Miata?

The 128i I would order would not come with run flat tires.
128i+sport package+moonroof. $33k

I like mx5s... but they are not for me.

Also, the looks of a 128 are HIGHLY dependant on color. They should be black or white. (Like most any other BMW. Colors make the sides look too...rippley?)

I think it looks OK. But definitely too tall, with way too high a beltline. The pot-belly pig sag indention feature in the lower sides is unfortunate, but minor.

Mainly, the problem with this car as far as I'm concerned is that it is too big and too heavy for a sub-3-series "baby" BMW. Needs more 2-ness and E30-ness and less E9x-ness...

3 points.
1.) the 128i is hardly an expensive car... just saying.
2.) BMW does underrate their engines. I'm pretty sure it makes 230 at the wheels.
3.) It is perfectly understandable to cross shop a 1 series with the frs/brz and genesis coupe. along with many other cars.

You need to understand that it's not the initial cost of the 128i that's the point of focus, it's the cost of OWNING a 128i that is the concern. The cost of owning a BMW past warranty isn't something to bat an eye at, they're expensive. I'm talking six injectors for 1k+ expensive, exhaust systems that cost around 2.5k expensive, cold air intakes that cost over 1k expensive and not to mention newer BMW's are VERY tempermental vehicles. They aren't as easily modified as the older ones with far less computers, so in that respect it's NOT understandable to cross shop a 1 series with the FRS/BRZ and GC; cost of ownership past warranty takes two VERY different routes.

But if you're Johnny Moneybags then I'm sure cost of ownership isn't a concern.

Having owned Toyota/Lexus and seeing friends/family who own European cars, I have come to the conclusion that a properly maintained car will last nearly forever. I am not saying that the frs/brz is a bad car. I am as excited as you guys are. All I am saying is that it is usually up to the owner to decide on the longevity of the car.

This comparison is really just a sports car vs. a "sporty" coupe. The 128i (as well as the 135i) don't have a limited slip diff... that pretty much kills it for being a sports car. The lower center of gravity and lighter weight of the BRZ will make it far superior in handling imo.

That said, the 128i will probably be more comfortable, and the back seats more usable and spacious. I used to have a 135i and it was actually quite nice in the back.

:word:Been saying that for years now.

Hate when people say something is destined to leave you on the road because it's an "X". My dad's got a windstar with close to 300k on it, thing barely ever gives any problems.

It all comes down to maintaing the car, the BMW will make your wallet lighter that's for sure!

This made me lol. You really think price determines the "leagues" of cars. The BMW is overpriced and slow compared to what the FRS/BRZ is. You are getting the same quality of build with slight differences with interior material choices (ie. plastics vs. heavier polymers, and btw BMW doesn't offer real leather on any of their cars priced under 50k.) The both are targeting the same audience, they are both "sports" cars, they are both FR; basically all the proof you need to say they are in the same "league". But i bet you at the end of the day more FRS's will be sold and they will be a much better car and a much better buy than anything BMW can offer.

You're so violently incorrect; we offer leather or premium leather (on cars that come standard with leather and not leatherette)for every single model. Price is irrelevant, leather is ALWAYS an option. I don't know who told you that but they lied to you.

Better car than anything BMW can offer? Bro...you high?



Edit: By the way, just so everyone is aware the 128i is an excellent vehicle. It's NOT slow, it handles like a dream. The only difference that'll exist between this car and the FRS/BRZ will be the difference in turn-in and the weight you FEEL going around the corner (but if you've got the sack for it I can guarentee the car handles just about as well as the FRS/BRZ will) and that's on a track. On the street you'll run out of nuts before both cars do. Guarenteed

I am looking forward to my first Japanese car. I have had 4 German cars (Mercedes, BMW, Audi, VW). I have had at least 1 problem with each of them:
Mercedes: Leaking sun roof
BMW: Turn signal stop working when it was really humid (moisture would get in the recepticals)
Audi: Broken steering rack and window linkage before 50k miles
VW: Too many to list.