|
Tetsuya Tada: Behind-the-scenes story on how Toyota and Subaru created the GT86 / BRZ
1 Attachment(s)
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/third/car3.png
FT86CLUB Homepage Featured Story This is a really good read. Enjoy: Tada: How Toyota and Subaru created the GT86 Since its launch last summer, the Toyota GT86 has received multiple awards for its no-nonsense, fun-to-drive philosophy. But without unprecedented collaboration between two Japanese carmakers and major backing from on high within Toyota, it might never have happened. Andrew English recently spoke with GT86 chief engineer Tetsuya Tada, who explained the complicated behind-the-scenes story that led to the most acclaimed sports car of the past decade. In the end, this is a story of how the development of this remarkable car overcame obstacles and forged a grudging and mutual respect between two teams of engineers, both of whom were working for very different companies. Here’s Tada-san’s story, in his own words. “You need to remember that this car was the result of an executive board meeting at Toyota in 2007 with the sole agenda that people around the world are losing interest in cars and what Toyota was going to do about it. One suggestion on how to address this was to go back to basics with a sports car that would rekindle interest. In the past, sports cars had been repeatedly rejected as having a poor return on investment, but at this meeting it was decided that if the technology division could make something that could restart interest, then the marketing division would support it. “I had been working in the minivan department engineering new product, but a month after the meeting I was summoned. ‘Forget about minivans,’ they said, ‘you are now working on the sports-car project.’ http://blog.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/...86-concept.jpg http://blog.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/...86-orange.jpeg“I started to research the idea and the first thing that hit home to me was that all sports cars are launched to the same formula. The are very fast, with fast lap times and that was the index that was used to measure how effective the car was. Yet when I spoke to car guys around the world they universally said they didn’t want that. These guys were still repairing their old Silvas and AE86 models. “Yet the first question from the board when I reported back was, ‘how fast is it?’ They couldn’t imagine a car which drives like a dream but isn’t that quick. I was thinking that maybe the car guys were right when they said they thought Toyota would be the hardest company to get such a high-fun, low-top-speed car past. “Yet when I meet up with rival sports car chief engineers (and we do at various times around the world), we all talk about what we call the Devil’s Cycle of ever-increasing power, speed, weight and price. So I started to work on the packaging requirements for this different sort of sports car. It would need to be front engined and rear wheel drive, but it would also have to be ‘cool’ and by that I mean low at the front. Yet all our Toyota engines are quite high and that would mean the car would have to have a high front end to pass pedestrian safety legislation, which wouldn’t be good for the aerodynamics, the looks or the ‘cool’. “It quickly became clear that we would need a flat-four cylinder or a rotary engine for such a ‘cool’ sports car. And by coincidence, Toyota and Subaru had just announced a collaboration deal. And although it wasn’t in the area of building a joint sports car, they did have a flat-four engine. In fact the deal was that Toyota was buying some Subaru shares back off General Motors and there was no financial benefit until we came along and suggested we talk to Subaru about their engine. “When we first approached Subaru they couldn’t believe that our plans for a sports car wasn’t a four-wheel drive or a turbocharged engine. ‘Who is going to buy this car?’ they said. We talked for a while, but the discussions stalled and we didn’t do anything for six months. Then we built a prototype based on a Subaru Legacy and that’s when the mindset seemed to change at Subaru. We lent them that car and the Subaru management came back to us and said, ‘this is such an interesting car. Every time we lend it out, it comes back with the rear tyres worn out!’. http://blog.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/...02/FT86-II.jpg “So the project was on again and the initial approval was for us to take the Subaru engine as it was. This was for financial reasons. We persevered but one year into the project and both sides could see that while we had a sports car, it still needed a good power level of 100bhp per litre and also an environmental target of a maximum of 160g/km of carbon dioxide emissions. With the Subaru flat four as it was we could get one and not the other. If we wanted 160g/km we only got 60bhp per litre, which meant 120bhp in total; not enough. “We had hit another wall. I went to our engine simulator and looked at the set up we had to give us the figures we needed. The chief engineer from the Lexus LFA came to help us and he proved that with Toyota’s D4S [direct and port] fuel-injection system and a certain bore and stroke we could hit our power and emissions targets. “Oh dear. We then had a lot of problems with the Toyota board. We needed the company’s most advanced direct fuel-injection system, but when I said I was going to disclose the inner workings of the most modern Toyota advance to an outside company, they said, ‘Are you crazy?’. “Our saviour turned out to be the head of engine development Shinzo Kobuki who had also developed the engine in the AE86. He took on the task of persuading the board to allow us to use D4S. You might have thought that owning Subaru shares meant that such a move would be in both our interests, but no. “What’s more Subaru’s reaction was a bolt from the blue. ‘Not over my dead body,’ was their reaction. The rationale was their previous experience with direct injection and the many problems that had occurred. The chief executive officer of engine development had previously been the head of the introduction of direct injection at Subaru and was very anti the idea. Plus of course, the Subaru way is of corporate conservatism. “So Mr Kobuki came out for us again. ‘I will convince them,’ he said. In the end he undertook to take on the warranty for all problems. What really won everyone over was when we built our first engine. You can imagine that the relationship between Toyota and Subaru at the time was very low. I admit, I was still thinking, ‘they’re never going to agree to this’. Even Mr Kobuki didn’t think that Subaru would understand the ramification of the D4S, the benefits it gave and its importance to Toyota. I was pretty low. “Yet out of these feelings and the wall of reluctance, we made a prototype [in 2008], which had 190bhp. It started to dissolve the antipathy and marked the start of a mutual respect between Subaru and Toyota engineers. We had heard that Subaru engineering had been concerned about the potential for Toyota one-upmanship in this relationship. But after the prototype was built we all got together and felt that we were all on the same team.” |
I would love to see the first test car they built. It is a cool piece of history.
"Then we built a prototype based on a Subaru Legacy and that’s when the mindset seemed to change at Subaru. We lent them that car and the Subaru management came back to us and said, ‘this is such an interesting car. Every time we lend it out, it comes back with the rear tyres worn out!’." |
So the prototype was based on the Legacy and not the Impreza like some have reported earlier? Are they mechanically different anyway?
The most fascinating new fact that this article brings to us is that the D-4S helped bump the output of the engine from 120hp to 190hp given the same 160g/km CO2 emission target. Amazing stuff. |
Quote:
http://www.tune86.com/sites/default/...prototypes.jpg |
Off topic, but does anyone know if the FT-86 and FT-86 II were running concept cars?
|
Excellent read!
|
Quote:
|
awesome piece of history
|
"Yet when I spoke to car guys around the world they universally said they didn’t want that. These guys were still repairing their old Silvas and AE86 models."
heh I still am modifying my 180SX to this day! |
What a wonderful story I really enjoyed the read two big thumbs up!!!
|
Whilst I am not trying to take any sides, everytime Tada san talks, it seems to be very balanced and not very biased. Everything I've heard from Subaru's camp however, seems to be "What? The car is 90% us!".
Interesting dichotomy happening here... I think Tada san's version is probably the most accurate. He's never made outlandish claims on what Toyota has done other than come up with the idea of a RWD, not-for-the-numbers-but-for-the-feel car and then add D4S to the engine to get it to some sort of respectability. Subaru on the other hand has come out and said the idea was theirs to begin with including one point where they said before they hooked up with Toyota financially, a new car was already in the works. I highly doubt Subaru was planning a RWD N/A sports car all along - they were preaching on AWD for decades! Nonetheless, I respect both sides for having seen what this car brings back and am very happy that they went through with it. Kudos to both red and blue camps! |
Thanks for sharing this. Is there a link to the original? Would be nice to see where it came from.
|
Quote:
This is an awesome article. The more I read about the car the more impressed I am that it even exists. |
Quote:
The Impreza and Legacy are extremely similar under the surface, a few differences here and there powerplants but the architecture and suspension designs etc are all pretty much identical. You can even swap springs/shocks/brakes/etc between the two pretty easily with a bit of research. As an example, the Legacy GT front brakes are a popular upgrade with track oriented guys with GC Imprezas. Cheaper than the Subaru 4 pots or brembos, better braking performance than the 4 pots at the expense of looks and maybe a bit of feel since it's a sliding caliper. |
So from my understanding of the article, Toyota's D4S was only used because of emission requirements? The non-D4S Subaru Boxer engine still made 100bhp/liter. Are emssion standards really that important these days?
Quote:
|
Quote:
http://blog.toyota.co.uk/tada-how-to...eated-the-gt86 |
This story again? I'm 100% certain I saw this exact same article posted last week. Let me see if I can dig it back up.
Quote:
Quote:
|
good read!
|
Wish this story was longer. The task of developing this car is such a huge accomplishment itself. No easy task and now it's all paying off. Respect to all the people who were part of the development.
|
Awesome read
|
HUGE props to the Toyota and Subaru Development team for making this a HUGE success!... And of course MAD props to Tetsuya Tada for his perseverance with this whole project!
Instant classics right off the assembly line! |
Don't care who made it, I'm just glad it exists.
|
Thanks for the good read, I remember some parts about the problems with them accepting each other earlier in the rumor mill of 2007. We've sure come a long way, and I hope these two companies will join in other ventures together.
I like to thank Kobuki san, without him and his engine expertise well we still be stuck. And Ofcourse Tada san We love you for all your efforts. |
Quote:
+1 a very nice read. thank you! |
This was an awesome read! made me feel even more grateful that our car actually came into being. Given how many times the project itself was stalled and the several times opinions between toyota and subaru came to a head.
|
Great story. Tetsuya Tada is truly remarkable, his side of the story is very balanced between two different automakers. Nothing like, Toyota is better or Subaru was better. As a result, this also reflects upon the car that he built, a very well balanced car.
"You are what you build" |
Toyota were smart to put him on this project.
He is a very good PR man. |
What a great article! I love how candid he is with the stages of development and open with what they had to go through.
|
Now everytime your car chirps, you can thank your car for saving the earth! #crickets
|
great read!
wheres the rest of it? NEED MORE INPUT |
I would love to hear a lot more interviews with Tada San in Japanese with English subs (the only way)
|
I want to hear from Subaru's side
|
Quote:
In business it's VERY poor form to make such dealings public. Sent from my SGS2 using Tapa-fkn-talk |
Tada san is an awesome guy. I bumped into him at Tokyo Autosalon last month (at the Toyota/TRD stand). He was obviously heading somewhere but i politely interrupted him and asked if i could take a photo with him and he was happy to oblige. he also suggested to walk the extra 10m or so to get an 86 into the background for the photo. unfortunately he was obviously busy so he was off once the photo was taken. would have love to speak to him longer about his baby.
ps. i also had a photo taken with Tsuchiya san (aka drift king) at the Bride stand and got an autographed Bride sticker. |
Great read. It's nice to have some background on how this unique game-changer came to be. Also it really shuts down any reason to argue whether Toyota did more or Subaru in the production of this car... They made it as a team, if either one wasn't participating it wouldn't exist.
I look at it as the best of both companies in one package. Simply a genius idea to collaborate like this and it will be known as a milestone in the entire car industry for many years to come. Can't wait for mine to get here.... |
I LOVE THE FR-S
|
amaizing read, this is what happens when 2 beasts join their power
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
They call this a new platform...because it is. I still believe it's based off a highly modified Impreza platform though (which, again, is based on the Legacy platform). |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:14 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by
Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) -
vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2026 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.