|
RWD Coupe vs AWD Sedan vs FWD Hot Hatch
So guys, I'm currently trying to decide on what car I want to get. I currently drive a 1996 Honda Accord coupe that I've been driving since high school (I graduated college last May and have a full time job atm). I've been saving up for a new car and want to get something fun to drive, as it is a good time for me to do so not having any kids yet and whatnot. My price range is 20-30k, preferably somewhere in the middle. I have identified a lot of cars that seem interesting/fun in this price range, and they all seem to fit inside one of the three categories listed in the title.
RWD Coupes: Scion FRS/Subaru BRZ Hyundai Genesis Coupe AWD Sedans: Subaru WRX Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart FWD Hot Hatches: Volkswagen GTI Mazdaspeed 3 Problem is, I don't know which kind of car is the best for me. I don't have an overwhelming preference for any of the three, although I tend to lean towards RWD or AWD over FWD as from an engineering perspective (I'm a mechanical engineer) I know using a FWD platform for a sports car is a poor choice (torque steer, understeer, weight distribution, etc). I am learning how to drive a manual car on my friend's beater and would prefer to get a manual car if I get any of the above (although some come only in manual anyway). I want a car that has a good balance of value, sportiness, power, handling, and is at least marginally practical (no 2 seaters or convertibles..sorry Miata). I've test driven the FRS (in automatic, as it was before I started learning manual), and thought it was a lot of fun and a really cool car. I know posting this on FT86club is going to elicit some bias of course, but I'd still like people's opinions on the overall 'fun factor' of RWD coupes vs AWD sedans vs Hot Hatches, and of these categories which is the best. |
I myself. was kinda in the same predicament. But I'm happy w/ my choice. Overall. I picked the twins over the WRX simply because of how unique it was.
|
If you need 1 car to do it all, I'm not sure the frs would be a good choice. Especially anywhere with snow. I'm aware people do it but it just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. I have a forester and a brz. I spread the mileage between the two and hibernate the brz in the winter. Once the brz is paid off, I plan to lease a cheap new suv every few years. The BRZ should be a great second car for a long time. If I was sticking with 1 car, the wrx hatch or the focus st would be tops on my list.
|
Best is to do some reading on each. You might want to swap the Mazda 3 for the new focus st. then go test drive each. No one can tell you whats best. You are on the twins forum and most of us already mour choice. I made mine and dont regret it one bit. I love driving my frs. Those cars on that list all have there pros and cons and all would be fantasic. It all depends on your personal choice and what you want out of your car.
|
Quote:
Of the cars you've mentioned, the FR-S and STI are the most fun to drive IMO, but for different reasons. The STI is fun because of the feeling of its go-anywhere AWD and the midrange surge from the turbo. It's not precise, it's not lightweight, but it is very fast in real-world driving, especially with a tune and TBE. It also offers great practicality as a hatchback, like a small wagon. The negatives? Understeer, high CG, poor steering feel, gas mileage and maintenance. There are also new WRX/STI models on the horizon, so be aware of that. The FR-S is fun because it's the sports car of the bunch. It is lighter and lower than everything else you've mentioned. It offers good feedback through the steering wheel and chassis, and it handles like you would expect a neutral lightweight RWD car would. The driving position is perfect, sightlines are good, and the shifter is notchy, but precise. In terms of the driving experience, I haven't driven anything that matches it under $40k, except perhaps the Miata. It's also fairly reliable and cheap to track/autocross. I really enjoy mine and will probably keep it for a long time. The negatives? Lack of torque and tiny rear seats. I'd also suggest trying the Focus ST. GTI if you care about interior quality. |
What do you want to do with the car? That should be the question you ask yourself before narrowing down your choices. I just got rid of my 2008 STI because I asked myself what I needed my car to do, and the STI wasn't the best choice. The BRZ was a great compromise between sportiness, comfort, and speed that the STI dominated only in sportiness (to a degree) and speed.
|
I'm going to mirror what some others have said. If you want a good do-it-all car, (and since I can't in good conscience recommend a FWD car for someone looking for sportiness) I'd really recommend a 5-door WRX/STI. It'll give you the best mix of fun, power, and overall practicality at the slight expense of fuel efficiency.
I'd recommend the BRZ/FRS if you're actively looking for a 2 door, barely 4 seat, proper light sports car. You're giving up the added practicality for what I'd consider a much more pure driver experience and slightly better mileage, which is a debate that's still raging in my own head. If that sounds right up your alley, go for it, otherwise I'd go for the WRX as your main car. |
I owned all those types of cars you mentionned.
The FR-S is more fun, by FAR. |
if you want one car that does everything buy the WRX. My FRS never sits more than 2 people, because it just can't..... You might as well treat it as a 2 seater,
|
The speed3 will prob be the best value for what your getting. Plenty of dudes getting the 13's OTD for 24,000 or less.
|
Quote:
|
I'm 5'8" and I could probably fit another me in the back seat with the driver's seat in my position.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
wrx seems like the all around compromise between performance, practicality, and price. Good luck, all of them blow away a '96 accord
|
The rear seat in our car is basically nonexistent. I'm pretty sure its only there for insurance purposes.
That being said, i don't think any other car on your list is going to offer as fun of a driving experience. The WRX would be my second choice. |
You should also run the numbers for insurance on each car you're looking to buy. Although unlikely, you might not want to buy a certain car after hearing the insurance cost.
|
Quote:
The bad news, everything I've read lately (mostly from IWSTI.com) indicates 2015 for the next STI. I wish it would come out this year. AWD sedan: go anywhere in any weather, do anything, handle well and go fast while carrying all your buds with you at the same time. For the record, I've driven the FRS, BRZ, multiple WRX and STI models and years, and ridden in a Focus ST. And I like Subarus, BRZ and STI especially. They just have a unique lovable character. |
WRX.
|
i bought of the FRS because i wanted something sporty and unique, But it really left an unfilled need of practacality , Fuel Effecient. My 2nd car choice was a Prius 3...
But everytime i drive on the twisties the FRS it leaves a smile on my face =) |
I currently have both a GTI and a BRZ, and I had an Impreza in the past. My opinions:
1) The GTI is the best all around car (again, just my opinion--please don't flame me for not holding the Subaru line ;-)). It's fast enough, and more power is just a flash away. It handles well, and rides fairly comfortably. It has far less body roll than my Impreza did (stock vs. stock), and is far more fun to drive (my Impreza was just a 2.5i, but even excluding the difference in power, it isn't really even close). I considered the Rex when I got the GTI, but ultimately, I thought it was more of a compromise than the GTI was, and at the time, I really wanted a nice-ish car. 2) The BRZ is the most fun to drive, hands down. I've driven a lot of fast fun cars (S2000, Elise, Cayman S, etc.), and the BRZ is right up there with them. It may not be as fast, but the fun is all there. I bought the BRZ not knowing if I could make it my DD, and honestly, I still don't know the answer there. I know I could... but given the option, I'm not sure I want to. If I didn't have the option, I don't think I would have gotten it as my only car. It really is a 2-seater, and has somewhat limited space compared to a hatch or even a sedan. The Focus ST has obviously gotten rave reviews, and it's probably more of a fun car than the GTI (I haven't driven one). Generally speaking, I don't see much sense in the AWD cars myself. I'd either go practical FWD or crazy amounts of fun RWD. Best of luck though! |
AWD + full snow tires + bad weather = total mountain goat.
|
I like my awd forester because it basically means I don't have to plow my driveway or the little mountains plows leave by the curbside. I just power through everything. :)
|
Quote:
As for trunk space, I agree as well. I came from a 99 Integra DB8. I had a ton more room in that car than this one. Really the BRZ's back seats are nothing more than extra storage space. Also to bring insurance down a little. Curious to see what it would be as a 2 seater coupe instead of a 2+2 coupe. Anywho. Speed, I just got over 1k miles. I am not really wailing on it because honestly, I do not need to. A lot of people take it to red line right after 1k miles. Sure they want to see the power pull in it, or just want to F around. Me, I took it up to 5k just to see where the power band started pulling. Found it right at 5k. I did the propper break in and honestly it is how I drove my Integra daily so used to driving under 4k RPM in traffic/city driving. The tail of the car I do get pulling away from me more than I expected. But this is the first RWD car I have owned. Got to learn not to give it so much juice out of a turn. Tell you what though it does get back on track QUICK! I do not realize it but when I have people in the car they always ask why I am smiling. I quickly look at them and instantly go serious face...for 1 second haha. I cannot help but love to drive the car. It was made to drive and enjoy to drive. I see the passenger smiling too. It doesn't throw you into your seat, not enough torque but they love the smooth ride (aside from crap Nebraska roads) I get around just fine in the snow and will even better with snow tires. I could not find a place with good snow tires in stock and they will not mount any from Tire Rack. I think the snow is done for now anyways. I am traveling to South Dakota in the Summer to go see some Mount Rushmore. You bet I am driving the BRZ up there! Going to break in these Primacy tires good! |
IMO, they should make a whole line of rwd cars on the FR-S/BRZ platform, including a sedan and 5-door "hot hatch" version. And a dedicated 2-seater with the engine/firewall/windshield/front-seaters moved aft about 20" for 50/50 or better weight distribution, too!
|
Quote:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23798 |
You're young, and St. Louis doesn't get too much snow. Assuming you don't have kids or the need to haul lots of stuff, get the 86.
|
The sad part? This type of car was not unique, 40 years ago.
|
Quote:
Yeah I definitely agree with the first part of what you said. How good a car is depends on what you want to use it for. The STI hatch offers a lot more practicality than most of its competitors. The problem with it (and the reason I sold mine) was that it was a "jack of all trades, master of none". I had room in my garage for a second car, so I could afford to have a less compromised project car (FR-S), while having a sporty/practical daily driver (GTI). A couple of counterpoints on the STI: - CG is higher than pretty much every other high-performance car out there (Evo X, Cayman, 370z, Miata, FR-S/BRZ, Corvette, S2000, etc.) - Understeer -- a thicker RSB can help resolve the steady-state understeer (along with an aggressive alignment and suspension), but the STI will never carry speed on corner entry the way a balanced RWD sports car will (weight distribution), and the power-on understeer is an issue for which there's no cheap fix (drivetrain layout). - Steering feel -- steering rack bushings helped with the slop, but still a far ways off from the feel that you'd get from a Cayman or Miata (or even the twins), for example. The rack itself is pretty slow as well. I hear the aftermarket Q-rack worked wonders, but it was pretty expensive and had its downsides (lose VDC). - Maintenance -- Synthetic oil changes every 3750 miles. Tires have to be replaced in 4's and are expensive in 245/40/18 (compared with 215/45/17 in an FR-S, for example). Brake pads and rotors are pretty expensive. Overall the STI comparatively costs more to track than, say, an S2000 or Miata or FR-S. - Gas mileage -- on my daily commute, I'm getting 28 mpg with the FR-S, compared with 19 mpg I got in my STI. Over 15,000 miles/year, that's $1000/year extra on gas alone. I should also mention the seats in my STI were awful compared with the recaros in the Evo or the base seats in the twins. The STI is pretty good at many things (fast, sporty, comfortable, practical) and I'd probably still have mine if I could only have one car. But if it's possible to have a dedicated sports car, that's the route I'd suggest. |
Have you test drove them all?
RWD Coupes: Scion FRS/Subaru BRZ - YES! Hyundai Genesis Coupe - Heavy, but fast. AWD Sedans: Subaru WRX - This is Subarus money maker, save up to get an STi. That's my regret with my 03 WRX :P Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart - No. FWD Hot Hatches: Volkswagen GTI - New ones are alright. Mazdaspeed 3 - These lowered with wheels = sexy. |
DarkSunrise, I don't disagree on any particular point except the oil changes. I got my oil analyzed every change and I was up to 7500 miles with a lot of oil life left on my old Rex.
AWD cars (unless you have a 911 or something) are all compromises. The price you pay for more propulsive traction. If you can have two vehicles, go for a dedicated sports car for sure. Especially if you want to track anything. |
Quote:
Also insurance for a 25 year old male with an STI, no thanks, the FRS was barely more then my tC. If youre looking for AWD and practical, you should look at a used Audi A4 2.0t. Thats what i was cross shopping the FRS with, MUCH nicer interior, same engine as a GTI, so modding is easy. Just my 2c. |
Quote:
Figure that one out. |
Hey guys, thanks for all the input so far! @BioRage: I've only test driven the FRS so far. @Voodoo and Dark sunrise, I probably will be going with a single car at the moment. I wish I could have a DD and a dedicated sports/weekend car but at this point I think that's out of the realm of possibility.
I think I can eliminate the ralliart from the list. Some of you have mentioned the problems of RWD + snow. Fortunately winters in the STL area aren't too terrible, but regardless something I should keep in mind. |
Quote:
The the reasltic factors kick in: A) Are you single? B) Do you have kids or expecting kids? C) How long do you see yourself with a new car? --> Plan on leasing, or buying it out, and perhaps getting a new car down the road. 4DR's are more practical than 2DR's obviously. If you drive people around often, etc than I would suggest a 4DR car. If you plan on getting something else down the road, I would just get something more family oriented now, or a sports car now, and do the other down the road. TO MANY FACTORS TO NAME!~ TL;DR GO TEST DRIVE EM ALL! |
only neg w the wrx is the gear box is long and floppy and the seats dont hold you in unfortunately
|
Yes, test drive. It's the only way to really find out what you like. Easy enough, too. The Subaru dealer I went to didn't even copy my license to let me drive their BRZ and STI.
|
I'll play devil's advocate to your devil's advocate!
I think it's more fair to compare the regular WRX to the twins, for no better reason other than I own one. Quote:
The WRX has a .36 CD. ;) Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Again I'm comparing a WRX, maintenance is about the same for both except for later in the car's life. You're right on the tires; but if the difference in tread is that great that you'd need to change one, you're probably replacing all of the tires anyway. Clutch will probably go out faster (80-100k) in the WRX and well, that's all I can think of. Oh and timing belt needs to be eventually changed. The FA20 uses a chain. Quote:
I say only because to me it's not a big deal, but $42 a month can be a lot for some people. Quote:
The WRX/STI are great cars. But they are practical sedans, that happen to handle well and are fast. They are the driver's car for the segment. The twins are meant to be driver's cars period. One last point. Speed/Mod-ability. You can put a little over $1k (Cobb AP/Downpipe) and be Stage 2 on a WRX and make close to 300whp. Add an E85 conversion and you're adding another 50hp. Max, $4k. With a turbo kit on the twins you're looking at $5k+ at least. If you're trying to get the WRX to handle and feel like the twins, it just ain't going to happen. |
Quote:
there are other things that i dont really agree with but a lot of its personal. i find the wrx to be boring for any given powerpoint. the gti is probably the best of the bunch as far as being a car goes. the frs is probably the best as far as being sporty goes. all the others fall somewhere in between. |
Quote:
Wow. My bad. I totally read CD instead of CG in the quoted post. :bonk: |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:43 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by
Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) -
vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2026 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.