Forced Induction Dyno Chart Listing!
 

First off let me just say that forced induction really has me excited when it comes to this car, mostly because since I have started running my car with a turbo all I want is more. More power. More torque. More whoosh!

With this in mind I think it's time we collectively put our results together in one thread so we can accurately compare where we are with our setups and what outputs are common with certain setups.

So I have come up with a few guidelines for posting dyno information so that it is standardized across the board for certain dyno types.

Lets start with the simple part; the actual dyno run!

When you bring your car to a dyno shop to have it dynoed we need to figure out what gear to run it in so we can stay consistent across our data. I recently had mine run in 4th gear, but I think that since 5th gear in a manual is 1:1 ratio that might be a better indicator of actual power, but with my current redline the wheels and tires would be rolling at speeds of over 160mph at redline in 5th gear. So I will leave this up to the poll to decide which will be the standard for dyno runs...4th or 5th gear.

For the auto crowd 4th gear is a 1:1 ratio and should be run on the dyno as such. I don't know much about running auto's on dynos so hopefully someone can clarify it for me.

So for the time being since my car was run in 4th gear that's the data I will post, but I would like all future dyno charts to use the same gear so we have more accurate data.

The second thing is to note how the dyno shop captures AFR data. Is it via tailpipe sniffer or a wideband sensor?

Last thing to make sure to get is the actual run files from the dyno. Pictures are nice and all but the actual run files are easier for you to take home and generate a graph showing the desired data. Also with run files you can share the file with me and or anyone else and we can generate overlaid run files with whichever cars we want. As long as the correction factor is relatively close these overlaid run charts will be the biggest benefit to finding lost hp or potential hp gains, especially on cars running the same FI kits. My experience is solely with DynoJet run files and their WinPEP 7 program so for the Mustang dyno crowd any info about file types and programs used to view that data would be useful.

DynoJet:

DynoJet files are saved as .drf files. They usually have boring names like RunFile_001.drf. make sure that when you go to a dyno shop that they understand that you want those files from your run emailed to you or you can save them to a USB thumb drive.

Once you have the run files you will want to go to this website and download DynoJet's WinPEP 7 http://dynojet.com/downloads/software.aspx When you go to that page about halfway down there is a gray box that says "Trying to view your Run", click that and download the installer. Once you have the program installed you can view the .drf files and manipultae the charts to show the data you want. I can help you view the data if you need it, but the program is pretty self explanatory.

Mustang Dyno:

Reserved for more information!


What to do with your run data to post the information here!

Once you have the run data and the applicable program to view that data we need to have the charts display certain information. You should have a two part graph similar to the one below:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8357/8...495de350_b.jpg
23JAN13 7PSI DYNO by Supermassive80, on Flickr

Set your graph up just like this. On the top chart it should be Power on the left and Torque on the right, and the bottom chart should be Air/Fuel ratio on the left. X axis should be Engine Speed or RPM. Other things to set up for posting is correction factor or CF and smoothing. Correction factor is basically how the dyno takes the raw data and converts it into actual HP figures. There are 6 different correction factors in WinPEP7 but the one we want to use for consistency's sake is SAE. For the smoothing setting I think the best bet is to go with a smoothing setting of zero. Sure smoothing makes for some nice smooth curves but hides any peaks and valleys that might otherwise show inconsistencies in the power output.

Ok now you have your graphs all properly set up and you want to post the results. First you will need to export the graph. In WinPEP 7 you do this via the File menu. When it asks you to save the data, save it as a JPEG. For Mustang Dyno figures someone will have to explain it to me! Once you have the dyno graph exported to wherever you want it saved you will need to post it online via whichever photo hosting site you prefer. Just ensure the data is clearly visible. I use Flickr because it lets me save actual size photos and doesn't force me to resize them.

Now you are set to post your data here.

Copy this format for your post so that I can populate a list of dyno charts based on the kit and which type of dyno you ran on.

-Car type (ex. Subaru BRZ 6MT)
-Forced Induction Kit (ex. AVO Stage 1 Turbo)
-Tuner (ex. EcuTek by FA20Club.com)
-Fuel Type (ex. 91 Octane)
-Boost (ex. 7PSI)
-Dyno Type (DynoJet)
-Link to build page (ex. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13381 )
JPEG of Dyno Chart


Now that we have all this data we will have a one stop location to view it and compare it. I want links to build pages so we can see what mods you are running and also to read any opinions you might have about said upgrades. This community grows daily and I would like to help ensure that the Forced Induction crowd is properly represented.

In an effort to keep this thread relevant and easy to navigate any off topic discussion should be removed by the mods. I will keep this listing as up to date as possible and I will gladly accept any run files you have and will work to keep an overlaid graph up for each FI kit type. This may take a while for me to populate as I only have my current data on hand but as more data is posted and if anyone sends me the run files the more likely it will be that I will have the graphs up!

Cheers!

Turbo Kits:

Accelerated Performance:

No Data

AVO Turbo World:

No Data

Full Blown:

No Data

P&L Motorsports Stage 1:

Supermassive - 7PSI - 254.93WHP - 207.15WTQ

Treadstone Performance:

No Data

Supercharger Kits:

HKS Supercharger:

No Data

Innovate Motorsports:

No Data

Toyota Racing Development:

No Data

Vortech:

No data

At the very least, perhaps not the drf files but certainly the following :

HP
Torque
AFR
Logged BOOST (Since this IS a FI discussion)

and Correction Factor in SAE since that's pretty much the defacto standard here and we get an apples-apples comparison...

Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

-Scion FR-S 6MT
-P&L Motorsports Stage 1 Turbo Kit
-EcuTek by @Visconti
-91 Octane
-7PSI
-DynoJet
-http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13381

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8357/8...495de350_b.jpg
23JAN13 7PSI DYNO by Supermassive80, on Flickr

Yeah forgot boost...

What's wrong with DRF files, there nothing to be gleaned from the data except A/F ratio which is hardly a secret. On second thought SAE should be the standard correction factor! Will edit to reflect!

I've just had first hand bad experiences where people use the DRFs and make their own dyno charts with their own tuning company name, so I don't think there's a need nor will I participate if that's the case. Posting charts with the relevant information where possible will suffice.

Regards!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Ah I see, well I was kinda hoping that people would let me use them to create compiled graphs...i don't mean to share the files here in a public thread but to PM me and arrange for me to use the file solely for that purpose. I am not a tuner nor do i have anything to gain by sharing those files. I understand if tuning shops don't want to share the files and if anyone in particular decides that they don't want to. It was just an idea is all.

I'll post dyno graphs, but I won't be sharing DRFs, unless you feel compelled to share with me the same DRFs for cross comparison? I don't think you'll get much support from others either way... Most dyno shops usually don't give em out.


Cheers!


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

No worries, if you post numbers in the agreed upon format that's more than enough. This thread is not intended to be a vendor advertising thread either, just a place where we can have access to dyno charts without having to dig through each individual FI thread looking for comparisons.

Here's my .drf files for anyone to look at and play with WinPEP 7

It's appreciated, but there wasn't any boost logged on your runs either. And were you in 5th?

Regards,


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Sorry, boost was 7PSI using just the wastegate spring pressure and it was in 4th gear. I plan on returning to the dyno to run a 5th gear log to see what differences there might be. I know 5th on these cars is 1:1 ratio but I didn't at the time of my initial dyno run.

Were you running aftermarket wheels?


Bob @ Drift-Office, LLC

Yeah 18x9.5 Gramlight 57Xtremes with Nitto Invo tires in 255/35/18. I guess i should add that info in there as well...

Maybe when I'm not at work, I'll post my stuff up.. I really wanna see what the most efficient kit is.

I think the main kits available are:
- P&L
- Accelerated Performance
- Full Blown
- Crawford
- AVO
- Vortech
- Innovate
- HKS Supercharger
- Treadstone
- D3

I'm sure that's on everyone's mind right now, but there are several variables that would probably make it hard to be totally accurate :

1) Wheel & Tire Size
2) Octane
3) Measurement of Boost (Depending on where the source is tapped from)

Some stuff to consider...


Bob

Yes all this info would be necessary to accurately determine differences between kits. Right now though what i am looking for is numbers, charts, and that info so that I can just populate this thread with real data.

Other things to consider is run conditions, temperature, humidity, number of runs on the dyno to get your numbers, etc. The more data the more useable the information, but i know that at this moment most dyno runs are being done by shops. Not by individuals going to an independent dyno to see what their car makes like myself. So that data is held by the shop and not the end user in most cases, and as you said most shops will be less than forth coming with the raw data. My suggested posting format is the bare minimum of data that i would like to see. Having wheel and tire info is good, but the only real determining factor is outside diameter of the tire. Wheel weight has some effect but not as much as the diameter of the contact surface.

On top of all this the idea of this thread is to get as many people on here with their runs posted so that people like me can figure out things like how in the hell does the Full Blown kit make almost 55 more horsepower with only 1.5PSI more boost. Things like this can spawn intelligent discussion about what we are doing to achieve the numbers we are seeing.

I've been looking at the numbers from the Full Blown kit as an example just because that kit is the closest design to my P&L Kit. I have noticed a few things that could account for such a large increase with such a small amount of boost. Such as the correction factor they used. My run is posted using SAE CF which equals 254.93HP, STD CF equals 260.46. Sure that's not a huge difference, but it brings the gap down to 50HP, take into account the fact they are running 93 octane and you can likely add a bit more HP to my number and close the gap a little further. Last but certainly not least I ran my car 3 times on the dyno back to back, posting progressively higher numbers (254.09, 257.00, and finally 260.46 with STD CF). If I were to run a few more times i may have hit a higher number, I was crunched for time as I had to be at work after I dynoed the car.

So this is the kind of information I would like to be able to share with everyone buying these kits, and tuning them. It's not to be used as a **** measuring contest, but as a tool for us to determine what we should expect. It's also to get tuners who are posting dyno charts to stick to a certain format to make comparisons easier between brands.

I haven't found this to be true, and I would never spend my money at a shop that would not give me the files. I have dynoed 7 different cars, and I have always gotten the Dynojet files on my thumb drive at the end. I will definitely freely post my graphs made in WinPEP and my DRF files for anyone that wants to see them. I will also be dynoing my car on both a Dynojet and a Mustang dyno for comparison.

While dynoing in 5th would be best, those speeds are not going to work for this car especially if you are reving over 7,400 RPM. I would say all runs should be in 4th gear which is pretty common for modern 6 speed manuals.

The gear also depends on the type of dyno being used. Mustang dynos won't show any difference whether you dyno in 3rd, 4th, or 5th.

I don't think we're going to see really good comparative data until there are more kits floating around. Then we'll start seeing same day, same dyno results from meets and dyno days.

I don't mind posting our dyno charts, or dyno charts of our kit by third parties. I do prefer to use the ones that have the baseline dyno run, on the same dyno and of the same car, so that the actual useful dyno data is on display. And that all supporting modifications are listed.

What I mean is, dyno's are, for the most part, just something pretty to look at without all the data involved. If there's no baseline, then how much was actually gained? Is one turbo/sc/e85 kit really better than the other if one was tested with a stock exhaust system and oem panel filter, and the other had a full 2.5"+ exhaust with no cats and an upgraded intake?

As a tuning tool, your use of the data is perfectly fine, what i am trying to accomplish is to get charts and charts of dyno figures of the different kits, so that we can figure out the averages. You know average HP output at 6 PSI vs 10PSI on 91 Octane. With more dyno information from all brands we can get an idea of where we can improve upon our builds. The reason I personally want to have access to this information is because I want to be able to have someplace I can look after I run on a dyno, compare my numbers to others, and be able to ask someone what they might have done different to achieve their numbers.

As it stands now, you have to filter through every damn thread in FI section, going through page after page, just to find a useable dyno chart. If i can get people to use this as a place to post dyno figures, access to this data will be easier and streamlined!

You know, if you are super motivated you can start an excel spreadsheet and start tracking every dyno result. You could build basic regression models once you have enough data. I'd probably just take into account ambient air temp, altitude and octane as independent variables in building a good normalized baseline for various dyno locations. Mods would obviously become the dependent variable. It's alot of work but doable. After a while, we could have a pretty awesome dyno database with a fairly accurate regression model people could use to plug different variables in and see the result.

This is the perfect thread, I'll be subbing it for sure. My goal is to be just above 300HP on pump gas. (91 here in Utah) So I'm looking for the Turbo kit that can do that without rebuilding everything, if possible. Just Turbo, injectors, headerback exhaust and tune, on top of my crank pulley, perrin filter, etc. Just trying to stay away from new internals.. for now :)