general frameless window issue question
 

so i've been hearing a lot of window issues with the twins due to the fact that it's frameless and does the auto up/down dance when opening the door. BUT, this is not the first car that implemented this frameless feature. I've seen BMWs, Mustangs, Hyundais that have frameless windows. My question is, do all those cars experience the same problems that the 86 owners are experiencing? or is the 86 so poorly made?

Poorly made is a harh word. This is their first generation model, it seems a lot of people assumed it would be perfect which means they have never owned a first generation model before, they are never perfect and usually have defects. This particular one seems to be aggrevated by the colder temperatures and moisture. The issue here is a mix of the angle that the window closes at and the rubber compound itself that is being used in the weatherseal. They will either alter the rubber compound or they will alter the way it bonds to the frame to make it more secure. These are the things to expect out of a first generation and so far the fixes have been simple and hassle free, which makes this a successful launch. Hell if this is the only problem I have and it is so far (knock on wood) I am tickled pink! :burnrubber:

Another advantage of living where I do. It's not an issue.
:burnrubber:

That's very interesting.

remember that the majority of subarus have frameless windows, but this is the first subaru that does the roll down a little thingy.

It was nothing more than a casual, passing comment. :)

More than that, there's a couple issues (cold shifting, anti-jam feature, crickets) that legitimately don't bother a significant portion of owners due to weather, how they drive, hell even luck of the draw.

I appreciate the members who call up corporate offices and complain about these niggling issues like rattles and clunks and the foam folding, it means a better car for the rest of us and future buyers but the bottom line is that I think over 90% of owners are extremely happy with the product and have no major complaints.

I have crickets, foam folding on passenger side, one incidence of hard start, one incidence of resistance into 2nd gear, hunting for idle, and a strange noise when at open throttle at low rpms that sounds like washers on a plastic tray vibrating and other oddities. To me nothing has even warranted a call (much less dealer tech's groping it).

Not sure where I went with this other than, yes it has issues, some are happy, some aren't, everyone has different perspective.

Don't worry guys, global warming will help us out. Eventually we won't have to deal with any cold temps.

ALL power windows will have more problems than roll-up windows, my issue with these cars(and the ones you mentioned) is the unnecessary EXTRA usage every single time you open the doors. That means if a problem is going to occur, it will simply occur sooner than later. That's all I'm concerned about.

I just wish they would have allowed a way to easily defeat this "convenience" feature.
I will be doing the door switch ground elimination diy to stop that nonsense.

Edit: Wouldn't it be cool to have a diy to switch the whole electrical mechanism out for manual crank roll ups?

It's the auto down feature that sucks for cold weather.

I had cars with framed windows that froze also..harsh weather here.

Yes, 350z's have lots of window motors going bad, they also have auto up/down entry feature.

Basicly shitty weather makes anything more miserable. I have problem with those stupid whip antenna they still use on the fender near the windshield...that crap's in the way when you are scrapping your windshield, the worst outdoor activity there is by the way lol

I had a flyer on my window and opened my door without taking it off. The flyer fell inside the door because of the auto-down feature. So dumb.

Had the auto roll-down-a-smidge feature on my previous car (MINI); that window froze shut lots of times, although I never had to reset it. It just happened once with the FR-S so far, so it's not a big deal IMO. The materials could probably be improved for cold weather use though.

I have to assume that due to the nature of the car, there was no environmental testing done north of the Mason-Dixie line. I mean, who in their right mind would drive this car in winter eh?:burnrubber:

Just got back from the dealer after finding a snowman driving my car earlier this week. It was due to the window staying in the lowered portion of the open-shut dance. We then had a good dump of wet snow. There is really not a lot that Scion or the dealer can do on short notice other than make sure that the system is operating as well as possible within the design constraints. I am sure that they are well aware of the issue.

Today was another interesting day since we had a rain-freeze situation overnight. The window, with no visible ice on the outside, is frozen solid. Door opens fine, but it neither goes down and up as expected when you open and close the door, nor does it go down with the window switch. Keep in mind that there is NOTHING to scrape off the window or the seal. If I had to get the window down, I would be in trouble!

The good news is that the dealer was quite nice and cleaned the car inside and out after the snow episode. Its the first wash since I bought the car and I have to say it looked good!

True enough. My Ranger has that antenna near the windshield, it is a pain. My old '97 Camry has it in the rear window, it has never given me a problem.

Thanks for the DIY on the door switch delete too. Simple and easily reverisible. Good stuff.

Good to hear you didn't trade her in on your visit to the dealer. You were pretty pissed with the front seat snowman you found the other day.
Do ottopilot's door switch delete. I know it doesn't stop the root problem, but it will help get through the day.

Yea it sucks. Just tell dealer to put lube on it. Anyways, can somebody tell me if aftermarket headers void warrenty? Like borla? Or aftermarket exhaust like header backs?

:popcorn:

Yea I know total fail. I thought they were talking about the side windows. But can somebody please answer my q? I really want the headers but don't know if itll void warrenty.

BMWs have a window trip/lip so usually stuff/snow get caught up there.

For people disabling the ground switch, opening this door without having the window go down I have heard is an unpleasant experience because of the pressure.

The permanent down-up delete is in my future. However, I did speak with the service manager and Scion about it. They will not endorse it and in fact will step away from any window warranty work if I do it on my own. I had asked THEM to do it as a way out of what I see is an unresovalble design flaw.

I did not make it 24 hours before the issue croped up again. I caught the window down tonight after the windows being frozen shut all day. Good thing because it is snowing like crazy out there.

You may be partially right, but I'd like to point out that areas of Japan do have mountains and snow. So I would say they did at least do some cold weather testing.

What they did with those results is another question.


http://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8

I can understand their position, but ottopilot's 'fix' is easily reversible (remove the switch, take off the tape, replace) when bringing the car in for service. That will be my plan to deal with it.
If you come up with another method to delete the up / down feature, be sure to share with us.
Seeing you're from London, is ToyotaTown your dealer?

Yup. And I feel sorry for them because they ere stuck with this issue as much as we are.

I actually made it 24 hours before they failed again after the dealer did their magic. Caught it this time or I woulda had another snowman inside. This was after the window being stuck up all day, so I was looking for it.

I hate those bastards always putting flyers on the car!

fyi Imprezas from the early nineties had frameless windows, dono about them now but up till 2005 or so they were frameless.

Agreed. lol. i just take em off and throw em away. lol USELESS