BRZ/FR-S Track Worthiness
 

It's too early to speculate... but if I buy this car I will be entering into a couple of HPDE events a year. I've owned a few commuter Toyotas but never owned a Subie. I have no experience with Boxer engines apart from the occasional test drive so hence was curious to see what you guys thought.

In the current NA trim what do you guys expect will need some beefing up in the interest of safety and longevity?

I'm thinking of these upgrades:
1. Oil Cooler
2. Trans Cooler (i'd like to get an Auto because of a left ankle injury)
3. Oil Pan baffle? Is the FB a dry sump?
4. Gauges (oil temp, coolant temp, trans fluid temp?)

The last thing on my mind is how to try and squeeze out every last HP from the car but instead it's important to keep it reliable.

Also, for you WRZ/STi owners... how has the Subie warranty treated you for your track driven cars?

boxer engines in NA form are a tad harder to gain HP (from my friend who tunes/owns and has owned numerous Subaru vehicles)

First thing, change out the brake pads for something with a higher temperature rating. You may also want to run some brake cooling ducts similar to the ones on the Gazoo Racing car.

No factory Subaru engines are dry sumped, and the H4 configuration is prone to have oil pool in the heads during long high g corners. So oil starvation is a legitimate concern. Baffling the oil pan is a good investment, but whether or not the pan is baffled make sure the oil level is at 'full' before you go out on track.

Get the gauges and do a trackday before you go adding oil/trans coolers. See if you even need them first.

Subaru has an on-again/off-again relationship with customers who track their cars. When the WRX was first released in 2002 they gave buyers a membership to the SCCA, then (reportedly) would deny warranty services to those customers later on.

Working in the aftermarket, I can tell you that every dealership/service writer is different and you need to have conversations about your planned mods/activities before you commit to a specific service department (remember service departments are not always in agreement with the dealership--they are often run as separate businesses). Some writers will let you get away with anything, others are just plain old sticklers for the rules.

The bottom line: If you are worried about retaining your warranty do not modify your car. If you are not able/willing to completely write off the car do not take it to the track (even for an HPDE).

As for what mods for HPDE duty BRZ/FR-S: Brake pads, brake fluid, and good, synthetic motor oil filled to the appropriate level. If you are doing a lot of tracking (8+ a year) accessory gauges wouldn't hurt at all. Primarily, I'd be looking at oil temp and oil pressure. If you are getting the AT then a trans temp gauge might be a good idea too.

It's tough to predict how durable the internals of this new powerplant are going to be, but I would guess that unless you are really upping the power beyond normal NA realm, you will have no issues in flogging this on the track a few times a year.

Mitsu did the same w/ EVO owners at SCCA events they would photograph plates

Thanks for the wise words. I've had good luck with Hawk HP+ even given their mild squeakyness. You're right, brake pads would be a given. Sway bars might be something to think of down the line also. Trying to avoid any coilovers since i'd like to keep it stock height for DD duties.

Thanks for the note on the oiling issues. I did not know that!

Also, wise suggestion on the gauges. I hope the OBDII protocol for this car has provisions for these sensor readings already.

Thanks! Good advice

1. Track pads, at least in the front, but possible in the rear too (less agressive of a pad though). Good brake fluid such as ATE Super Blue as well.
2. Spare set of rotors for when the track pads eat the first set of rotors
3. Baffled oil pan never hurts. It won't be dry sump (at least I'd find that VERY hard to believe)
4. Check oil between sessions.

For gauges I'm a fan of oil pressure (can tell you a lot, including oil starvation issues) and oil temp. Water temp is fine too but less critical since the stock inaccurate guage will be good enough for most. Auto trans temp, maybe I have zero experience with automatics on track. Most likely the auto will already have a cooler built into the radiator.

With any luck, a good race shop will pick up on this car and do a full-suite datalogging of a stock car to find it's weaknesses and then build a catalog of offerings that fix the root-cause of the problems. Simply slapping gauges in the dash only helps if they have programmable warning points or if you have a passenger watching them like a hawk.

Like old greg said, there's no reason to "upgrade" things if you don't know it's a problem to begin with. The car may already have sufficient oil and trans cooling, we don't know yet. A baffled oil pan is a likely candidate; most cars need one for track work. The severity of it however usually lies with the tires you run and if the tracks you run at have any unusual circumstances [i.e. very long left-hand sweeper that may cause oil or fuel starve].

This will all play out after the car comes out and we get datalogged track time. We can only speculate for now.

The brakes on the car aren't big, about 11.6-11.7" front. That's likely on the edge of being big enough. Good track pads, adding brake ducts, braided hoses, and good fluid will help make the best of the situation [I'm partial to Motul 600 for feel, and Castrol SRF for tough heat issues]. Again, the tires you run and your skill level play a big role.

Then there's the issue of the passenger compartment [since I can't say c0ckpit]. Hopefully the seats hold us well, but who knows how well the seats will accommodate 6 points [not likely].

I notice the oil pressure gauge in the racecar when it drops mid turn (and it's a dumb gauge, the ITR has defis with warning lights)..

the rest I basically agree with..

except that you should never use harnesses with reclinable seats either.. reclinable seats collapse in serious accidents.. use harnesses with fixed back seats and a rollbar/cage.

Didn't I read somewhere about this car it will have a baffled oil pan? Of course I'm not 100% on this, but I recall something for some reason...

I don't recall that, though I'd be pleased to find out if it did!

True, i got photographed on my Evo MR by Mitsu track spies! I thought it was for magazine coverage, my buddy just told me they are not. I'm glad i did not have any warranty issues/repairs after that. :burnrubber:

What about for the Scion? I want to drive it at Portland International Raceway. Is there a way for a person to just drive their own car around the course without it being part of a race?

Can you take off your plates? I don't see why it would be necessary once you are at the venue.

No one really thinks a company would do the things that Mitsu and Subaru did to SCCA members.

Yes. Go to a HPDE.

how about volt meter?

I noticed my car's battery die alot. Will Volt meter help in this issue?

No. Fixing whatever is causing the battery to drain will fix that issue. A volt meter will simply tell you the voltage at whatever point you are picking up the signal at.

If you're going to go to the occasional track day with this car I'd say a good set of brake pads and tires.....simple and cheap.

This. ^

I'm expecting (besides basic oil & coolant) to be able to get away with just pads, fluid and maybe SS lines and ducting to handle occasional full HPDE events. That's the whole reason I'm buying this car really.

I'd be extremely disappointed if it were necessary to look into extra cooling, baffled sumps etc. just to do HPDEs.

If we're talking about R-comps they maybe I'd tolerate having to add a baffled sump, extra cooling etc. given all of the extra Gs.

Depends on a few things, namely skill level and potential weaknesses of the car.

This is just to address those who've never done a track day (don't want them to get scared away): all you need is a helmet. Don't worry about modifications, not even brake pads or tires. For your first weekend you'll be learning the line. Only those with racing DNA would be pushing the limits of the brakes/tires their first weekend.
My first weekend was in a stock Miata with stock pads and all season tires. I had a BLAST.

You've made a nice point there sir, thanks for keeping it real. :)

Having said that I'm one of those track junkie types. Been there & done that so it's tempting to jump ahead and try to imagine weak points.

I think I'll take a page out of your book and just enjoy trying out the stock setup for awhile before assuming I need XYZ mods before I've even hit the track in the car.

I did start tracking in a stock Golf R32 way back when and indeed it was fun times. :)

I've seen guys track Accords and Yarises and stuff and they didn't do so bad either.

Thanks for sharing a whiff of the coffee beans. Track snob-itis and moddiction are powerful contagions.

[QUOTE=mike2100;238138
This is just to address those who've never done a track day (don't want them to get scared away): all you need is a helmet. Don't worry about modifications, not even brake pads or tires. [/QUOTE]

I would add track insurance to that too. Unless you're ok with someone else hitting and destroying your car potentially.

Brett

All those sitting on the fence about trackday, please just go! It's awesome in any car, regardless of performance! The car will make funny noises and smell weird when you're done, but unless you really abuse your car it will be fine.

I took my daily driver on track this spring. 2007 Golf TDi with a DSG transmission, and I loved it! Lots of tiresqueal, loads of understeer, and learning the track, but still awesome!

http://youtu.be/AJ80BlEO3rY?hd=1


Complete first session on track, and you can judge my reactions versus just a few laps later....
http://youtu.be/tf6pqNKev7A?hd=1

Ah yeah track insurance is good if your policy doesn't cover you. Especially important if you're going in a new car!

It's probably safe to assume that your policy does not cover you. Pretty much every car policy has exclusions written such that they won't cover HPDE, PDX, auto cross, etc.

Brett

To some extent, I agree with Mike, but I'd upgrade to a better brake pad then stock, say the Carbotechs (www.CTBrakes.com) and something other then all-season tires. Don't need an "R" compound, just a better high performance street tire.


Agree. Most, if not all car insurers have included a clause that reads something to the effect of "We will not cover any incidence on a racing surface."

Feff

I'd switch pads and fluid. Novices are especially bad at dragging brakes and generating heat, sending one out with OEM pads and fluid is just bad advice IMO.

I definately agree that no suspension, power, etc mods need to be done, and in fact, I always suggest people learn their cars stock. Lower limits to learn with and it provides valuable information on what needs to be fixed once you have enough seat time.

And we won't even allow anyone with less 4 or 5 events and have been signed off for solo to run R comps. Covers up mistakes and makes the limits much higher so incidents happen a lot faster and they are harder to fix once the car exceeds those high limits.

I know you guys know all this already, it's for the others reading :)

Definately get HPDE insurance unless you can afford to push the car off a cliff. It's too high risk when a significant amount of financial loss is possible to do so otherwise.

I agree I've had no issues with brake fade even with stock pads and fluid but others have. I believe they aren't compressing their brake zones very well and must be dragging. I seem to use very little brake on this car but I'm also on race tires so I do have higher entry speeds and therefore have not had to scrub much speed.

With that said I did put my STi Brembos on with Hawk DTC 60s I believe and OMG I can brake so late in this car and it's just a punch and go. I don't think there is a brake marker even this late into turn one. Have a look:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYTqLQdfwdo"]Element Tuning FRS/BRZ Cat-Back Delete Summit Point 6-2012 - YouTube[/ame]

That 140 whp, 2400 lbs Miata was giving me fits on the straights. Until I found out the specs on the car I was like oh man somethings wrong with my engine.

I've been pretty hard on this car so far and it never overheats and it never has brake fade. I think I did finally get some fuel starvation dropping below 1/2 tank on race tires so if running track tires and you have a long right hand sweeper, keep the tank above 1/2.

I'm concerned about oil starvation since the grip level is so high on track tires for a stock car. With that said I'm not seeing the oil consumption we get on the WRX/STi so I think due to the low crankcase pressure not as much oil is getting pushed and trapped in the heads. When we boost our FRS and fully prep it for ballistic cornering speeds we will definitely offer a dry sump kit. For now I'm keeping my AC :)

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

I'd guess there are stock baffles in the sump......this car was designed for track duty from the very begining...they don't want to warranty blown engines.....Just like spec miata's.....their system works just fine......

All the Imprezas have baffled pans and its adequate up to a point and i would imagine its the same on thr FRS/BRZ. I will probably get a oil pressure gauge when we modify the suspension so i can start monitoring it.

If the baffling was completely inadequate i would have already spun a bearing so for now with race tires and no suspension mods owners should feel safe.

As a point of discussion, I would recommend upgrading the rear pads with the same compound as in front, if at all possible. First, the weight distribution and low CG of this car will allow the rear tires to do more braking. Second, there is less cooling capacity in the rear and less heat sink (smaller calipers/rotors), so they actually also need a higher heat range. Third, the car has electronic brake force distribution and will even out your braking forces anyway.

It's certaintly possible, I haven't driven the car on track yet. That hasn't been the case in my previous cars but I'm willing to give it a shot.

Remember that this car has a whole helluva lot more weight on the rear tires than the typical fwd car. Just mentioning that because it looks like your primary race cars have been fwd.

Agreed. I mentioned it as well in another thread on this topic :) I experienced it in my S2000 also though.

I agree.....I will be following your progress...since it appears you are one of the 1st to get out there on race tires..... I am hoping the FRS-BRZ becomes the next miata on racetracks...... I'd love to see a spec FRS class in a few years.....

Gotcha. I would think that car would be similar...