What if...Honda and Mazda joint together to come up something to compete with 86?
 

I know Honda and Mazda is fully capable to built their sports car, just like Toyota and Subaru. Just fantasy chatting here so how would you think?

Great! Competition is good for all of us.

There is no relations between Mazda and Honda.

You would more likely see a Mazda 3/Focus/S40 type effort. I don't think that Volvo and Ford still have a relationship. But I believe that Ford is still tied to Mazda in some way.

They wont team up

Even if in another dimension they did... Then that means more competition... hooray

It would be a hellava car! Certainly better electronics which are dismal on the BRZ.

If Honda is using the same design team that designed the 2012 Civic, then I'll pass.
If Mazda builds the same quality as of their 2001 Mazda 3, then I'll pass.

Imagine if Honda uses the design team that designed the 2012 Civic and let Mazda build it... Uh Oh... We gonna have an ugly looking car that rusts in no time.

If that's the reverse then I would have to see.

A 2001 Mazda was designed more the 13 years ago. I'll give you a 50% rating.

The BRZ is what the next RX7 should have been. I'm not sure the Wankel is a viable engine anymore, though. Which is a shame as I always enjoyed the 'exotic' nature of owning an RX7.

But, I'm fully invested in my BRZ now so the loss is offset. :)

its in swedish but mazda and alfaromeo are teaming up to develop the new mx5 / coupe car togheter... should be intressting..

http://www.automotorsport.se/artikla...ensam-sportbil

link is in swedish but you get the point..

google search: 4c alfa romeo

http://www.tuningnews.net/news/11030...cept-hr-01.jpg

still a concept.. but you get the point..

I think Spyker and Gumpert should build a competitior to the FRS/BRZ. Bring it!

the 4c is not the mazda/alfa car. the 4c is a 60k+ elise type deal.

Mazda and Honda have built some great sports cars in the past; if they ever were to work together to build a sports car, the result would undoubtedly be spectacular, as long as they keep it gasoline-powered and don't screw around with hybrid/diesel drivetrains. Those are awesome for economy, not going fast or having fun! *cough* CR-Z *cough*

mitsubishi motors (not the keiretsu) and mazda maybe as they're both relatively small and it would be financially difficult for them to go at a new 86 style sportscar on their own. honda doesn't really have to partner up and neither does nissan.

Mazda and Alfa Romeo have joined together to build a shared platform for the new 2015 Alfa Spider and a brand new MX-5 Miata. Only the platform will be shared. The bodies of both cars will be different and designed by each company respectively. The Alfa Romeo will have it's own engine and suspension as well.

What cars have they built together?

He did not mean built together.

Ohh... I must improve on my english then :p

This. Fiat wants to use Alfa brand to milk higher-margin luxury segment. I expect something like an Elise, but has a bit of creature comforts and can comply with safety regulations.
But I'll truly believe it when I see it.

Um.... I'll just leave this here: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7...victory-twice/
See also: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-le-mans-racer

Isn't Mitsubishi OUT of the North American market???

"Fiat"? Why do I think Chrysler might somehow be eventually involved?

I assure you Honda would not wish to associate with Mazda.

Don't think that Mazda needs much help. The Miata is a well established product that toyota and Subaru still need to work on if they hope to have a better product.

The Miata philosophy from the start was a japanese word that meant "One between the horse and rider" The Toyobaru philosophy seems to be whatever the japanese word for "build a bridge and get over it" would be.

As much as I think the handling targets for the twins are spot on, I think the car is at least a year early to market and a ring or two outside of "bullseye".

The more I think about it, I feel more lucky that I owned and driving one today. Both Toyota and Subaru technology/experience in one car. How often can this happen?

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/12/m...-in-september/

No that was Suzuki that left the North American Market last year.

Realistically they might as well be dead though; Mitsubishi is vowing to soldier on despite the fact they only sold around 55,000 vehicles total for the fiscal year 2012 in the U.S..

Mitsu is going through a soul searching process right now and seem to be focusing on trying to "out green" Toyota. Their new "eco friendly" branding started with the i EV and will continue with the reintroduction of the 1.0l 3 cyl Mirage to the U.S. and Canada.

I personally don't think the all in on tree hugging route is the right way for them to go. Historically, during their most profitable hey day, Mitsu was known for performance vehicles. Almost every model had a high tech performance variant: 3000 GT VR4, Eclipse GSX, Galant VR4, Lancer EVO, Colt Ralliart Version R, etc...

Both Mitsu and Mazda's engineers are very capable of producing wonderful sportscars but their managements are holding them back (Miata notwithstanding). A joint venture in a similar vein as the Toyobaru project could yield an excellent sportscar.

Yes, thank you I'm well aware of Audi's technological masterpiece. I'm also aware of Porsche's hybrid race cars and Mazda's diesel race cars. While that stuff is great in a multi-million dollar race car, it won't translate well to an affordable sports car. The technology is too new, complicated, and expensive right now.

*COUGH* Porsche 918 Spyder *COUGH*

Sure, it'll cost something like 800k later this year, but there's no denying the performance! Capable of 0-60 in just under 3.0 s, runs to about 90 mph in full electric, top speed of around 200 mph, ran the 'Ring in a claimed 7:14, 580 hp when the batteries are drained, can completely recharge its batteries through regular driving, and can still get something like 78 mpg when driven normally :burnrubber:

I'd love to live in a future where that sort of hybrid tech has trickled down into your every day sports car. Seriously, some just cryo me right now and wake me up when this has come to pass!

Also, I just noticed that you already acknowledged this car's existence but poopoo'd it off by citing the price/unproven tech. Just saying, you stated that hybrid systems aren't for going fast or having fun at all. I'd say this proves otherwise :thumbsup:

What I meant was that so far, any attempt to put hybrid or diesel technology into an affordable sports car (i.e. CR-Z) have not gone well. Oh sure, I'll admit that I prefer a petrol-burning engine to a diesel or a battery-powered thing, but really my concern is that someone will come out with a brilliant car idea and it will get weighed down (literally and figuratively) with fledgling hybrid technology. My experience with diesels is limited to an Audi A3 TDI with a 6spd DSG gearbox, but it was not fun revving to just 5,000rpm.

Electric hybrids actually have plenty of potential to be fun. Torque from 0 RPM? Yes please! It's just that they've been used for fuel economy. A well-designed hybrid would be crazy fun, I think.

If Honda developed the powerplant (say a direct-injected F20 or K20) and Mazda developed the chassis (for example, a lightened 2-door RX-8), that car could be a viable competitor to the upcoming BRZ-STI. Imagine 260 hp NA in a 2700 lbs car.

But Honda and Mazda on their own could develop a viable GT86/BRZ competitor. Of course first of all they need the funds and the car has to bring profit, or aleast no loses.

But the task is not easy. First it has to be lighter, than even better balance, but that can only be achieved if the engine is mid-front mounted and eventually has a transaxle gearbox. Center of gravity can also be lowered thanks to dry sump, but all that increases costs on both sides. The GT86/BRZ is a hard package to beat. I guess the Alfa 4C will beat them, but it will also cost almost as a Cayman.

Dunno why Honda would need to redesign anything. Just start cranking out more S2000s. Maybe less premium to keep the cost down but don't reinvent the wheel.

pipe dreams of a RX-7/S2000 frankenstein...

:drool:

This could be awesome if mazda designed a nice lightweight RWD chassis and honda supplied the powerplant.

Or even vice versa if honda brought a new rwd chassis out and used a rotary...

I'd take a lighter weight S2000 fixed roof coupe with a better rear suspension design and proper aero.

Screw Mazda, no need for them to enter the picture. Honda is capable of it. Too bad last I talked to them they basically said "yeah, there won't be more cars like the ITR and S2000 from us anytime soon." :(

NSX development is moving along well though, too bad it's so anti-NSX I would never buy one.

Yup... I'm thinking something along the lines of a Rotary with Honda reliability, and a fixed roof coupe. No hatch business....

Imagine if the renesis had F20C reliability and MPG....

Strictly theoretical of course ;)

in due time, no doubt

Assuming one of those listed did pull it together in time to build a competitor (coupe, rwd, ~200 hp) in the same price market ($24-28k) they would be at least a full generation behind this car. It would be comparable to the "catch-up" that other companies were forced to do to compete with Prius. However, unlike Prius where the mpg demand created the market and any financial losses in competing were justified by future sales, it would be hard for another car company or union to get it together fast enough. Especially at a cost that could be covered by demand, since as much as we want to be a majority of buyers we entry-level rwd coupe lovers are a small segment. If there's going to be any new entrants from those companies it will be slightly above FR-S/BRZ (hp & cost) and timed to market at the time that owners are looking for an upgrade.

That said it would be nice to see some competition, if anything to make race/autocross days more exciting.

There is one good thing that could come from a joint effort by Honda and Mazda. Maybe Honda could convince Miata to get rid of that stupid grin!!

having had both.. YES! slightly longer than the S2K the new 16x rotary motor ~26-2700lbs, 250hp @ say 8000rpm or higher i'd be sold for sure as long as i could fit. i would take the fuel economy hit rotary power is awesome. :party0030: