Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   BRZ First-Gen (2012+) — General Topics (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   turbo yes (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2587)

BMWDAD 12-02-2011 06:50 AM
turbo yes
 
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2588

Buggy51 12-02-2011 06:53 AM
You mean... supercharging?

Dark 12-02-2011 06:53 AM
Turbocharger No, Supercharger most likely.

BMWDAD 12-02-2011 06:55 AM
okay

carbonBLUE 12-02-2011 07:04 AM
i would be fine with a supercharger with a built in intercooler w/ warrantee :D i would be all over that... lol

Dark 12-02-2011 07:35 AM
Like the article says, Toyota needs to retune the suspension to handle extra power. I prefer a model with tuned suspension and supercharger installed from factory better than the one installed by a dealership. Maybe Supercharged FR-S Release Series.

Levi 12-02-2011 07:48 AM
What a Supercharger adds 100 kg more? In this case I prefere an engine kit, the car gets even lighter.

SUB-FT86 12-02-2011 07:59 AM
I highly doubt they meant the Supercharger alone adding 100kg. I guess they meant beefing up other components as well.

70NYD 12-02-2011 08:50 AM
Lol a properly tuned and upgraded CAR will always involve adding Breyer brakes, driveline components and suspension to match the power
You loose handling from increased squat under more power, but who thinks about that really??

Ryephile 12-02-2011 08:57 AM
For the link-adverse:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUTOCAR.co.uk
Toyota is already hard at work evaluating a high performance version of the new Toyota GT 86 sporting coupe. Chief engineer Tetsuo Tada says that not only is a supercharged GT 86 envisaged, test cars have already been made and are being evaluated by Toyota Racing Developments, the Japanese giant’s in house tuning division.
Tada-san favours the supercharger approach because it is simpler to achieve than increasing engine size and doesn’t wreck throttle response as turbocharging might. Indeed Toyota says that turbocharging along with four-wheel drive and wide tyres are what make sports cars boring to drive.
See our rendering of the hot Toyota GT 86
Supercharging is also a key competence for TRD which has been offering this kind of forced induction as an aftermarket kit for Toyotas since 1998. He would not be drawn on what kind of power a supercharged GT 86 might develop but Toyota is known to consider the car’s chassis could easily handle an additional 50bhp to go with the 197bhp already generated by its Subaru 2-litre flat four motor, a view with which, having driven the car, we wholly concur. However he says the TRD is also looking at ways of modifying the suspension to cope with the extra power, raising the possibility of a still more substantial power hike.
Read more about the Toyota GT 86
TRD’s most popular supercharger conversion is applied to the American market Tacoma pick up, boosting its 4-litre V6 engine from 233bhp to 301bhp suggesting that a 280bhp GT 86 with, critically, a massive boost in the low down torque the car currently lacks would be easily achieved. Even in the unlikely event that all the modifications added 100kg to the weight of the car, its power to weight ratio would still at least equal that of the 326bhp Nissan 370Z, a car capable of hitting 62mph from rest in 5.3sec and recording a top speed of 155mph. The standard GT 86 needs around 6.8sec and does 143mph. It is not yet known whether, if approved, the supercharged GT 86 would be offered as an aftermarket pack or as a model in its own right.
Tada also confirmed that it was so important to his team that even the standard GT 86 drifted properly that special tests were incorporated into the car’s development programme specifically for this purpose, ‘the first time this has ever been done on any Toyota.’
Andrew Frankel
Amusing points to me:
*they pretty much diss any turbo AWD car, which I got a LOL out of
*they readily admit having TRD working on the chassis tuning for a supercharged setup
*They leaked that they're doing a supercharger setup. Does Toyota get their jollies leading-on potential customers?

Infernal 12-02-2011 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 70NYD (Post 87897)
Lol a properly tuned and upgraded CAR will always involve adding Breyer brakes, driveline components and suspension to match the power
You loose handling from increased squat under more power, but who thinks about that really??
very true - most people think spending all of their money on a remap and turbo-back exhaust then adding GReddy stickers and painting their calipers red is adequate :P

keiri 12-02-2011 09:05 AM
One could take this to mean that further along the way the possible differentiators being the Toyota/Scion will be supercharged and the Subarus turbocharged; it would push the two models further apart and further allow people to choose the car that provides power the way they prefer.

Interesting if true and it does make me wonder about a timeline on this.

Longhorn248 12-02-2011 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infernal (Post 87909)
very true - most people think spending all of their money on a remap and turbo-back exhaust then adding GReddy stickers and painting their calipers red is adequate :P
Everyone knows that red is better! It makes car faster and brakes stop quicker.

Dragonitti 12-02-2011 09:42 AM
If it's a supercharger, I would hope it would be a roots type.

ryude 12-02-2011 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonitti (Post 87926)
If it's a supercharger, I would hope it would be a roots type.
I'm hoping it's twinscrew.

mele63 12-02-2011 10:01 AM
I'd love to see a factory-backed bolt-on supercharger package from TRD or SPT but I am skeptical due to the 12.5:1 compression ratio....meaning we may have to wait a few years for special model to come out.

Ryephile 12-02-2011 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryude (Post 87930)
I'm hoping it's twinscrew.
I think his point was anything positive displacement. Twinscrew ~~ TVS >> classic Roots, of course. A centrifugal would be less desirable since boost is RPM proportional.

Since we're talking TRD here, roots is most likely, yes?

ryude 12-02-2011 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryephile (Post 87946)
I think his point was anything positive displacement. Twinscrew ~~ TVS >> classic Roots, of course. A centrifugal would be less desirable since boost is RPM proportional.

Since we're talking TRD here, roots is most likely, yes?
I've never seen TRD use anything except roots.

Sabastian 12-02-2011 10:35 AM
If they do a supercharged version, I hope it ends up being an actual factory model with bigger brakes, more aggressive suspension tuning, etc. I think I would much prefer that to an aftermarket bolt-on.

cassidy0998 12-02-2011 10:36 AM
definitely going to be roots if it's true. Toyota has offered them on many of their vehicles for years.

This would make sense - I've heard of people asking Toyota if there was going to be a turbocharged version of this car - their replies of "absolutely not" make more sense now.

I hope I'm not getting my hopes up for nothing though...

Motordyne 12-02-2011 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryude (Post 87930)
I'm hoping it's twinscrew.
It will be.
Notice the article said it will greatly increase low end power.
TRD is already doing a lot of work with belt driven Eaton based superchargers.

mokinbird87 12-02-2011 10:55 AM
Twin scroll turbo set up would be what I want as it provides a flat torque curve and instant response...

Infernal 12-02-2011 11:12 AM
has anyone ever heard of someone supercharging a boxer/flat4 ?

ryude 12-02-2011 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motordyne (Post 87977)
It will be.
Notice the article said it will greatly increase low end power.
TRD is already doing a lot of work with belt driven Eaton based superchargers.
http://www.superchargeronline.com/im...ots_blower.jpg
Roots is a pump, it draws the air through the inlet, the air heats up against the casing causing heat\turbulence. Cheap to build, easy to tune, and tends to be more efficient at lower boost levels.

http://www.superchargeronline.com/im...ew-cutaway.gif
Twin Screw is a compressor, it draws the air through the inlet and compresses the air within the screws. Less heat\turbulence, more expensive, better at higher boost levels.

Twin screw has less parasitic loss compared to a Roots, but you're talking 5-10 HP in our power range.

OEM's use roots style because they are reliable and cheap.

TS are used in lots of after market and racing applications.

Levi 12-02-2011 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mokinbird87 (Post 87997)
Twin scroll turbo set up would be what I want as it provides a flat torque curve and instant response...

WOW, TURBO and INSTANT RESPONSE in the same sentence. Tell me of any turbo engine that has throttle response as a naturally aspirated engine?

The best turboed cars - 911 Turbo, 1 Series M, M5 F10, MP4-12C - all have turbo lag and cannot match the responsivnes of 911 GT3, M3 E9X, LF-A, Ferrari.

A supercharger can be a better solution if you want more power without losing throttle response. Audi S4 with Supercharged V6 is a better car than BMW 335i with Turbocharged I6. However Audi handling sucks.

youngxlos 12-02-2011 11:59 AM
Everyone always talks about turbo lag... from my experience there is barely any lag, and its only noticeable wen I'm in like 6 gear in the highway and i put my foot down, takes about 1 second to hit boost then the car is off.
So unless your using a massive GT35R you'll barely notice lag, I have a GT2860RS and when i put my foot down the car goes, there is no lag, and I'm using 9.0:1 CR

Supercharging to me is stupid, it takes power to make power, turbos dont.
we can sit here and argue about it all day, its all personal preference if they make a factory supercharged good for them, ill still rather turbo mine.

Jah1mon 12-02-2011 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngxlos (Post 88060)
Everyone always talks about turbo lag... from my experience there is barely any lag, and its only noticeable wen I'm in like 6 gear in the highway and i put my foot down, takes about 1 second to hit boost then the car is off.
So unless your using a massive GT35R you'll barely notice lag, I have a GT2860RS and when i put my foot down the car goes, there is no lag, and I'm using 9.0:1 CR

Supercharging to me is stupid, it takes power to make power, turbos dont.
we can sit here and argue about it all day, its all personal preference if they make a factory supercharged good for them, ill still rather turbo mine.
I couldn't agree more. Elimnating lag, or making it less noticeable takes the right compression ratio and proper turbo sizing. Both of which Subaru can match. I do hope they go this route with a Sti model.

ryude 12-02-2011 01:00 PM
All turbocharged cars have lag, whether you perceive it or not is not the argument.

subaruslow 12-02-2011 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngxlos (Post 88060)
Everyone always talks about turbo lag... from my experience there is barely any lag, and its only noticeable wen I'm in like 6 gear in the highway and i put my foot down, takes about 1 second to hit boost then the car is off.
So unless your using a massive GT35R you'll barely notice lag, I have a GT2860RS and when i put my foot down the car goes, there is no lag, and I'm using 9.0:1 CR

Supercharging to me is stupid, it takes power to make power, turbos dont.
we can sit here and argue about it all day, its all personal preference if they make a factory supercharged good for them, ill still rather turbo mine.
Do you realize a bone stock 335i bmw with 6psi of boost makes 100% of its torque from 1400 rpms on???????????

dunno how to respond other than I'll show you my med turbo upgraded sti blowing the doors of na cars.

compare a 2.5 to a 2.5 turbo, the turbo car can easily have as much or better response.

Hence why all european manufac are heading towards less cylinders+turbo

youngxlos 12-02-2011 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by subaruslow (Post 88133)
Do you realize a bone stock 335i bmw with 6psi of boost makes 100% of its torque from 1400 rpms on???????????

dunno how to respond other than I'll show you my med turbo upgraded sti blowing the doors of na cars.

compare a 2.5 to a 2.5 turbo, the turbo car can easily have as much or better response.

Hence why all european manufac are heading towards less cylinders+turbo
what is your point?? i never said anything wrong about turbos... i own a turbo car, and if i was going Force induction I dont want anything else but turbo.

was that comment aimed to ryude that was saying all turbos have lag???

Dark 12-02-2011 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngxlos (Post 88372)
what is your point?? i never said anything wrong about turbos... i own a turbo car, and if i was going Force induction I dont want anything else but turbo.

was that comment aimed to ryude that was saying all turbos have lag???
I think the guy was confused and thought you were against turbo.:lol:

Levi 12-02-2011 04:51 PM
I wonder why Ferrari is not yet going turbo if turbo is so much better? The MP4-12C with high revving turbo engine is marginally faster than the Ferrari, yet also lighter than the F-car.

Ryephile 12-02-2011 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi (Post 88536)
I wonder why Ferrari is not yet going turbo if turbo is so much better? The MP4-12C with high revving turbo engine is marginally faster than the Ferrari, yet also lighter than the F-car.
They did back with the F40.

Ferrari, like Toyoda-san, understand that turbo's have lag and a disconnected throttle response, which detracts from the emotional connection to the car. McLaren isn't interested in Man/Machine relationships, only lap times and statistics.

This is why Ferrari's drop panties and McLaren's get NASA-geek attention.

Snoopyalien24 12-02-2011 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infernal (Post 88015)
has anyone ever heard of someone supercharging a boxer/flat4 ?
http://www.csl.mtu.edu/~jmcarder/subaru/sptsc.jpg??

subaruslow 12-02-2011 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryephile (Post 88545)
They did back with the F40.

Ferrari, like Toyoda-san, understand that turbo's have lag and a disconnected throttle response, which detracts from the emotional connection to the car. McLaren isn't interested in Man/Machine relationships, only lap times and statistics.

This is why Ferrari's drop panties and McLaren's get NASA-geek attention.
This is ridiculous, you are clearly a reader not a driver. You are generalizing beyond idiocy.

This is why;

-Australian v8 supercars are turbo'ed
-Some lmp1 american leman cars
-FERRARIS BEST and many other f1 cars until 1989 when turbos were banned. Ferraris 1980's turbo f1 car was a dominator

You don't even understand the argument you are making. There is some validity to joe schmoe saying his z06 or whatever it may be has good low end and response compared to a car with a turbo (generally against a stock car). However a similarly displaced car with a turbo charged, or a correctly matched turbo/engine setup can easily dominate an n/a car and give far better response. N/A cars like m3 have zero torque and crap low end, so low end could easily be matched by a turbo'ed car.try driving one.

Saying they detract from emotional response is utter horseshit. The rush oh a high horsepower turbo car is hard to beat, and if fast with a robust powerband theres nothing better.

If ferrari had a turbo you'd crap yourself in the drivers seat. Ferrari knows only a certain amm of power combine with handling is needed and at a certain point more power is too much, and thats true of any chasis/drivetrain.

Also trashing mclaren is idiotic and makes you look foolish.

Levi 12-02-2011 07:29 PM
Try an M3 E9X and rev its V8 till 8.400 RPM all day, then tell me if it has torque and if its not fun.

Dimman 12-02-2011 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryephile (Post 88545)
They did back with the F40.

Ferrari, like Toyoda-san, understand that turbo's have lag and a disconnected throttle response, which detracts from the emotional connection to the car. McLaren isn't interested in Man/Machine relationships, only lap times and statistics.

This is why Ferrari's drop panties and McLaren's get NASA-geek attention.
Now maybe, but the F1 was phenomenal.

quik1987 12-02-2011 08:31 PM
It would be cool if

Toyota = Supercharger

Subaru = Turbocharger

phenoyz 12-02-2011 10:31 PM
will the toyota TRD supercharger FIT in the brz engine? in case you bought the brz and later on you wanted to add the TRD supercharger?

tranzformer 12-02-2011 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phenoyz (Post 88955)
will the toyota TRD supercharger FIT in the brz engine? in case you bought the brz and later on you wanted to add the TRD supercharger?
If it fits the Toyota it fits the Subaru.


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