People need to relax!!!
 

people we need to relax about this car. really after years of following this car and surfing these forums for even a glimpse of a camo clad picture we are going to start nit picking about this car? I really do not understand some of the arguments being made here. the scion looks 90% of what the concept is, and after months of arguing that this car was going to be overpriced we see that they made some cuts in the form of luxury to price the car appropriately, and everyone is bitching about it. :bonk:

I truly believe that they are going to start this car at 22k and perhaps charge 1k more for the automatic. that is a different enough price than a tc and it slots in nicely to compete with the gen coupe 2.0t. and if this is the price who cares that it doesn't have a starter button, fog lights, led headlights (like you wont be able to pick them up on ebay when the aftermarket gets a hold of this car) ect. w/e this a really cool car i love the look of it and since its a scion it will have a kick ass stereo and be priced correctly.

what it looks like is that the scion will be a more hard core bare bones car and the subaru will probly have more luxury items. both cars will have their pluses and minuses. i really like the scion and i like the scion brand i cannot wait to take this thing for a spin

Agreed. I can't wait to drive both of them.

A low spec model will do nothing but help the modding/tuning community.

Thumbs Up
 

:thumbsup: Toyota / Subaru have created something for everyone.

Suck it up Princess!!!

lets hope the whiners don't take over this thread. but i agree with you TS!

FORREAL!! I'm so excited about this car. I actually think it couldn't have turned out better. Exactly what I was hoping for. I think it looks better than all of the concepts.... But that's just me.

And the Scion version looks a bit cheesey. Which I'm also happy about! Everyone wanted lower cost. They delivered without losing all the good stuff. A nice DVD/Navi headunit, drop, wheels, I/H/E mods and this with be the ULTIMATE machine!!

Can't wait to buy my first SCION!!

Finally, a thread written with common sense!

Welcome to the internet, where no man or woman is ever content with what they're given. If there's ever a reason to bitch and moan, they will find it as many of them believe the internet is for complaining and porn.

I can understand why people may be concerned by the price however, since Toyota are keeping this nervously close to their chests, which in turn makes the demographic nervous that they may not have the funds to shell out on what has always been perceived as a very cheap sports car. In fact, I recall rumours going around when the first leaked images were coming through that they expected this car to be in the £12,000 bracket which was never realistic. So, if people have always held that view, it's likely it has always been kept in mind that the car should be as cheap as possible, or at least in the low 20s.

What he said, last night was the biggest cry baby fest I have seen in a long time on a forum.

:word:



:lol:

i'm pretty sure half the people complaining aren't old enough to buy a car or afford the car to begin with. people just want to complain for the sake of complaining.

How are you sure?

By some of the post and threads started I'd definitely believe it. I think the Fr-S will start off $21,999 which is great for many, and BRZ will be the higher end starting at $23,999 for the premium...but I don't wanna get my hopes up...

Because I believe people who are mature or of age wouldn't re-iterate the same complaints over and over again in multiple threads, often times in incoherent ranting.

I have been taking a "glass half full" approach to the differences between the 86 and FR-S. Sure the interior and exterior aren't quite as great looking as the 86 but that also means it will be more affordable for me which is the most important factor in my judgement on purchasing a FR-S. I feel scion has done a good job on making comprises to keep the price down. While the complainers see a ugly stero, I see a nice big double din opening to put the touch screen stero I want in!

I asked it just to see, but you'd be surprised...

I've been to a ton of meets with different forums...

Oh the things I've seen... You'd be surprised... I know people twice my age that makes me go WTF sometimes, or when I finally meet the people that started certain famous threads my jaw just drops...

Then I find out their profession and it just drops even further lol...

Some of the most mature forum members are 18-24 year olds that work for every penny and totally don't take anything for granted... Most of the trouble makers in my old truck forum were I would say 28 - 40

People seem to mix up trolls and honest discussion in here. Usually it's by people who are no better than outright trolls, these people are the blind brand/car fanboys, which are plentiful here. Yeah, it hurts that people don't think your car of hype/choice can't cruise on water, get over it. People have different opinions. My worst observations have been people who put down some well written explanations to their disappointment just to be flamed by some fanboys.

Two sides to every fence.

I really think I couldn't be much happier with how the FRS turned out. I almost feel like the bitching and moaning is a good thing. It suggests that non-enthusiasts will be turned off by this car, and only those that really believe in the design principles of this car will buy it. That and 17 year old girls. ;)

I also think when people actually SEE the car in person some of those doubts will subside.

Some people simply want a nice, fun to drive car in the vein of the original AE86 that they don't need to modify to enjoy. Not everyone wants to void their warranty the day after they purchase a brand new car. If that means they spend $5000 more on the sticker price but get all the doodads that they want, then they should offer such options. I don't see why the "purists" are mad at people who just want a well optioned (without going overboard), sporty, daily driver.

I'm happy you're happy, but don't think for a moment that it's "non-enthusiasts" complaining about this stuff, as enthusiasts will actually be the ones to more so to follow up on the car and get info online in these days. Actually, I think that this car will actually sell more to "non-enthusiast window shoppers" on looks alone than actual enthusiasts.

:thumbup:

Initially I admit I was bitter because the car lost what the JDM 86 had (and I'm one of the ones who isn't as price focused as many-I'm expecting to spend 25-27 on the car). When that didn't happen I wasn't happy about it. However, if they offer the same as options then the fact that the base car is.. well base doesn't really mean much.

The problem is, we don't know if those options will exist. If they don't then we are basically being forced to go to Subaru IF we want those options without modifying the car.

I will modify the BRZ/FRS if I buy one, I just don't want to have to do so immediately to get what I want as the base platform.

As I said though, if those items are offered as options than Scion hasn't lost me as a potential buyer yet.. it'll come down to pricing. I know those reports of the FR-S being 30k are based on a cracksmoker.. but if they aren't.. well..

I generally consider myself an enthusiast. I've been on track in 30 degree weather. I would have loved seat heaters on those days. I've autocrossed in 24 degree weather and drove an hour to the autocross site and it was 18 degrees when I left.. yep, would have loved the seat heaters there too. The HIDs are a requirement of mine as well. The seats, well maybe the regular seats will be fine but I suspect that I'll prefer the alacantara seats.

If those things really make me a non-enthusiast then I guess I'm not one. :shrug:

This is exactly the point I was trying to get across in my criminally neglected thread a little while ago. Here's what I said:

Unlike some enthusiast forums, I don't think this one has a dedicated Toyota/Scion dealer who is trying to keep everyone up-to-date, correct me if I'm wrong. So, I'm hoping some of the people who were at the FR-S unveiling last night could clear a few things up.

I understand that what we see in the official Scion literature is still a "pre-production" model, however the concerns I (and I think a few others) have are legitimate and are holding me back from putting down a deposit.

Do we know whether or not there will be a "high-spec" version offered by Scion? If not, will things that are offered on the Toyota 86 be offered as options for the Scion? HID headlights? Push-button start? Upgraded seats? If these are all boxes I can check on the order form, then great, where do I sign? If not, and the difference in cost between the Scion and the Subaru is ~$3000-4000 (based on the loose info we have), then the only option for a "high-spec" 86 of any kind in the USA is the BRZ, correct?

I'm sure that when the car comes out and I get one it will be great, but in the 6 months until it comes out (in the UK) we have to talk about something!

I think things will work out well having both Toyota and Subaru selling the car as hopefully it will give bit of choice.

As far as I know there is no dealer/manufacturer presence here with any real knowledge. There are a few that pretend yet will never name a source.

I think a lot of this will be cleared up at NAIAS. Both Scion and Subaru stated that the US spec would have their official/public debut there. I'm *hoping* that will include things like pricing, brochures, availability date, etc. I coach a hockey team with a service writer at the best performance Subaru dealer in the area so I'll check to see if they've heard anything when I see him on saturday. I'm hoping he'll be able to sneak a brochure away once they get them if it's before NAIAS so I can see it :)

For the same reason as you, I'm not putting a deposit down on either at the moment because I'm still unsure which I want. I was waiting to put down a deposit on the information that I was hoping would be released at TMS originally..

I agree with Clamp, nothing wrong with having the car with options.

Also, brand loyalty and your view/expectations on what the car should be vs other people, it's a matter of opinion. I don't think it's wrong that people got let down a bit considering how good the Toyota 86 launch was and all the options that were available vs the north american launch. It's not wrong to question a manufacturer on their decisions, it helps build a better end product.

If the whiners want to REALLY be constructive, they should be notifying or messaging someone within toyota to try and push for change. This car was made possible by feedback from enthusiast, so who knows? Maybe they'll listen?

True people should expect that the Scion version of the car should be cheaper, but people put expectations on this car to be special in a sense that maybe for once the north american counterpart wouldn't get screwed on options like we always have. (at least the important bits are the same though, engine, chassis, suspension)

I've been watching all the threads so far from yesterday and yeah there are some definite trolls and there was lots of bitching, but even still, they're a few valid points within the sea of trolls in whining.

Another thing is that while some of us like to track/auto-x/drift our cars. This car is getting a recognized and hyped global release to a car that has cult status following. So the demograph of buyers is going to be all across the board so be prepared for comments like what was seen yesterday.

Either that or start a new hardcore FBR86Z community just for motorsport enthusiasts.

I agree. Right now I'm currently looking for my first NEW car that I want to be fun and performs well and looks as a bonus. I may not be gutting it out and going full race but I'd still like to take it to the track once and awhile and just have fun with it. I'm going to have this as my daily driver so I'd like to have those options just so when I go out I have amenities of a good looking nice car or else I'd just keep driving what I have because it's about on par with the interior with the Fr-S. I really hope they do have options I think many people are jumping the gun a bit I mean they haven't even announced price yet and people started complaining. If the Fr-S doesn't satisfy my needs I'll gladly go by the BRZ because its my first new car and I want it the way I want it but at the same time I'm not going to bash the Fr-S because that is also what many wanted just a base that has no fancy tie ins. The way I see it BRZ=High Spec, Fr-S=Low spec

i am 27 and i am also looking to buy my first new car. i have to say i was a skeptic about this car and the power plant they chose for it, but the more i read about it the car the more i like about it. i have realized that i am not going to race it and i want something that is cool, gets good millage, and will not bore me. i think this fits the bill perfectly i live in Miami fl so as long as it has a kick ass stereo, a good a/c, and power windows i would be happy.

I agree, HIDs are a great safety option, something I can't do without anymore.

You know what, I did.
I did sent Toyota at the beginning of the year telling them not to make it a Scion.:thumbdown:
I did sent them another email telling them I'm really not happy with the FR-S when the rest of the world gets "86" in the name a week ago.
I did again sent them another email about the wash down equipment that was shown from last lights event and ask them to make those missing items options.
I do still hold out the hope that there will be options.

Most likely nothing will happened. So that will probably leave me disappointed.

Most of all, I'm disappointed with those in the forum that seems to be against options. Whats wrong with options? Options are options, right?

I just thank toyota for giving me a chance to relive the days when you could buy an AE86 (affordable, Toyota econo-sportscar and the best of both worlds) NEW from the factory.

-17 year old, inspiring Automotive Engineer, Car enthusiast, and AE86 lover. :thumbsup:

Even the "low spec" scion has a projector low beam that will produce a nice beam pattern with a halogen bulb. Just use a quality bulb (Osram Nightbreaker, Philips Xtreme Power, etc), aim the lamps PROPERLY and everything will be fiiiiiiiiiiiine.

I have a car with HIDs and another with Halogens, both using projectors (the same projectors even). The difference is night and day. Lots of the so called "premium" bulbs in the US are tinted and actually REDUCE lumens while changing color tempt so it looks brighter. Clear bulbs are the best for light output in terms of lumens (for HIDs and Halogens).

Youll be buying a Scion, built by Subaru with development shared with Toyota.

Thank Toyota for that.

Sorry, I just don't want you to get confused.

Huge difference between real HID systems and aftermarket bulbs in a projector. Sorry, there's no comparison. Not to mention they also last much-much longer as well.

I must be the only one who hadn't noticed the changes until they were pointed out. Honestly, the little things people are whining about makes no sense to me. What's next, "no sunroof model? oh noes" The fact that they WILL be options guarantees you can have your toaster seats and blinding hids.

These are the LAST things I care about in this car; I'm glad that we finally got a JDM powerplant, not a FB20 with 160hp for MPGs.

*just going to say sorry for the long post in advance


Honestly, good on you! (no sarcasm) You were proactive and voiced your opinion and that's what people need to do to see the options you want on a car they're trying to target for you! So again, much respect.

The way I see it, I'll be using this as a 10% track car, 5% hooning, 85% dd. I want to modify it, have fun with it. But I also need it to do the DD shuffle. The radio I don't care, I can swap it out, fog lights most likely optional, HID's are cheap to buy and I can install them myself. Stock exhaust? That's getting thrown in the woods. My only gripe with the car is the interior rear seats. I do road trips and I take people along and the rear seats don't look too comfy for my passengers. If I really didn't care about the back seats, I'd get a miata. But I'm not greedy like that. :D

I own an AE86, I still have my full interior in. On track days I pull it out. But for a daily run around, it's nice piece of mind when you can take friends home after a day of work or go out somewhere with people in toe and have some comfy seats. Again, it's really my only complaint. (like I said before engine, suspension, chassis all in tact and I am happy)

Another thing I hear about is people say, "Do you see what this car is based on?!(ae86) It should be spartan!" I'd beg to differ. It had a very reasonable list of factory standards and optionals that were amazing for it's time! by todays standards yeah it's not that great, but back then, it was really good and priced well to boot! My problem with this statement is that people are making an excuse for it to be spartan which I think is wrong. We should expect a car maker to include nice amenities that surprise us since it makes us feel that we got more for the money. It's how companies like Honda, Toyota, Subaru and Nissan got to where they are today, they over engineered there cars and were brilliant because of it! but I digress.

Ideally I think that i'd be fantastic if this car would be offered in 2 trims. the base and the premium (with all the knicknacks everyone wants like HIDs, LED DTRLs, HVAC, etc etc.) with a good list of factory optionals. It would appeal to both sides of the potential ownership base, and keep more sales within Scions brand instead of having people jump ship to Subaru just because of creature comforts. (not that theres anything wrong with Subaru. Revenue streams all lead to the same ocean anyway with this car)

But yeah anyway, price is key, and at the end of the day I really just want to drive this car. I will most likely wait till the 2014 model to buy one (I never buy the year one models) but it's not going to stop me from test driving it once I can get my hands on one. :thumbsup:

I don't care that the car no longer has a push button start, dual automatic climate control, and seat warmers. I do, however, care that the design of the new center stack was executed so poorly.

The center console was a blank canvas for them to design a manual HVAC layout and they chose to put three staggered knobs in a really large and cheap looking piece of plastic. That's a big disappointment. They could have used the same basic design of the JDM climate control; just use three similar looking/sized rotary dials and use the same neat looking toggle switches to turn on/off the AC, re circulation, defog, defrost, ect. It wouldn't really have cost any more to do that and it could have looked great.

Another complaint; white lettering on a silver dial for the tach? Why? Its so difficult to see! I'm not to worked up over that because that's an easy fix with an overlay, but again its just disappointing to see another completely unnecessary design issue.

At this point, it all comes down to pricing. If they managed to keep the price really low I can overlook these new faults that the car has. I just hope that the Subaru comes to the states intact so there will be another option.

Ok,

1. This IS the "JDM" climate control; it's part of the low spec package in Japan. The brochure that was leaked is proof.

2. The other FR-S had black lettering on white. It may light up at night. Or just bad lighting.