TSC VSC
 

So I've had my 86 for a week. I have loved every minute of driving it. But I am so scared of daring to push these buttons!

I am not entirely fearful of me not being able to handle the car. I have had professional driver training. Its more that these buttons would seem to cause the car to behave so differently.

I have had a blast running through the hill roads, and it feels so planted, such a go kart. And I cant help but think the amount of times I would have fallen off the road if it wasn't for these electronic aides. It does allow me a little slip, but very little. I can definitely feel when its kicking in, and see/feel it when its majorly interrupted power to the wheels.

Is anyone out there actually daring enough to turn these off on public roads? I have seen threads of crashed cars that usually starts with "so I turned TSC off".

I may eventually take it to the state track and give it a go, other than that I am sticking to, hell no!

I would suggest try VSC mode for now as it allows a little extra slip but traction control still steps in when it gets further out.

I have done VSC mode driving through Nebo - Kenilworth and felt quite safe and controllable.

I know this will sound strange but in the wet traction control to me feels very intrusive.

Find adeserted parking lot or a track and explore the limits. No other way to find out.

I drive my car 95% of the time, if not more, with them totally off. Especially when doing mountain runs and spirited driving.But even on my commute to work.
Wouldn't dream of leaving them on.

^^^ same here. Off all the time.
Nothing better than having full control of your car.
@Devie
Sounds like your not too confident. I would suggest keeping them on until your learn how to control it.
Especially if you have an auto. Nothing worse than smashing your car or putting anyone else on the road in danger.
The manual can be controlled so much more than an auto.

It will come in time. Just take it easy and push it little by little.

Unless you are planning on interesting manouvers , leave it all turned on. You never know when you might slip up.. Patch of oil, whatever.
I will turn to VSC sport, when I am going a bit enthusiastically.
Anything that requires TC and VSC off, you shouldn't be doing on the street anyway.

My car is a manual.

As I said its not that I don't think I can handle it, it's that it would change to car so much. The chance of error increases a lot.

Ill have to try it in a safe environment. I've crashed a car once where I fell off the road trying to be fancy and learnt my lesson there. Luckily all I did was smash my wheel.

Easier to recover in a manual. Just take it easy n don't put anyone's lives in danger.

Late night empty Carpark n hope u don't get caught

In those situations it will allow you to accelerate a bit more through them going from a major to a minor interruption. The car's handling characteristics don't change but your fun factor will increase provided you are confident in your ability to control it. You've only had the car for a week leave the nannies on and get to know the car a bit more =)

What are the modes out of curiosity?

VSC Sport just allows a little bit of slip before the safeties kick in?
And if you press traction control it will turn off for the first few gears and then turn back on or something like that?
And also hold traction control off for X seconds and it will be (almost) fully disabled and stay off?

So everyone saying to leave it on, it is safer, you are just a hoon if you ahve it off, etc... Have you guys never owned a sports car without these things?? .....

We r not hoons. We just want to be in full control like you used to be in older cars.
Drive by wire, just doesn't seem like full control. I find it a little annoying with throttle response. Has anyone else noticed a difference ?

Guys have got to keep it on if they r not confident enough or don't know the cars limits yet.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8212

Read the 2nd post

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7300

Vsc demonstration n test video

It's good to know what it feels like to break traction, and then the next step would be what to do once the rear wheels start to spin. The easiest way to figure this concept out is by driving in snow or rain if you have no snow. I'd also recommend you do this in an empty parking lot...
Living in Alaska, I flip on the VSC every day because the traction control as it is is way too much. It makes driving in the snow more difficult than it needs to be. The tires need to slip a little bit so I can actually get moving... I know that sounds ridiculous, but when you can't move from a stop because the traction control is fighting you, it's a real pain.

I turn it off not to be a hoon but for those moments like turning into a gap in traffic when you really don't need the car changing your input.

Maybe you mistook my post... I am part of the collective "we" you mention....
My post was aimed at the ones saying "leave it on, leave it on"
I rarely have them on, because I hate them. I hate not being in control. This is the first car I have ever owned with these features, and i have always been into "spirited driving", racing and drifting.
So, please, DO NOT confuse me for those who think the traction control should only be turned off on the race track.

I am/was actually surprised at how good the throttle response is, given that it is electronic. I have driven much worse fly by wire cars :)

im just saying, that for driving to work, i dont need those big fucking lights on the dash staring me in the face.

it takes 5 seconds to turn it all off, so why not just leave it on till you need it off?

if you are not planning your manouvers at least 5 seconds ahead of time, you are driving poorly.

Not confused. I know what u were saying. We. Meaning me u and other ppl who turn it off.

Yeah throttle response is good, just feels different.

Been away for 1 day and miss the 86 already. :(

Fair enough man :) FWIW I don't think most of us are hoons either. I like to ahve fun, but I am no idiot.
LOL I know how you feel... I was away for a whole month :/

empty car park.... those bloody hawk eyed cameras and security guys....
I had a few bad memories in local shopping centre with massive car park.

Maccas car park :)

All macas 24 hour. Too many highway patrol cops, especially between 10:30-11pm...

Industrial areas

I think this warrants a cruise to some remote location up or down the coast away from Sydney, surely there's open barren places to drift and do some other relatively unsafe things :)

^
I am entering paranoia mode here.
Sure, you can look for a deserted area but what happens , on the off chance , that a patrol finds you? Dangerous driving at minimum, maybe impounded car. Maybe a better (and more costly) option would be to go to a skid pan or drift school. Not so much for the drifting but the car control.

I would just practice on the streets and just keep an eye out for the cops and hope no unmarked police cars catch you. Although i wouldn't recommend it if you want to keep your driving priveleges.

Other than that try a skid pan day that should help.

So went for a spin today, and gave turning both off a go.

Around backstreets and some fun corners it was fine. Easy to handle, a little slip here and there with easy corrections. Then I was going around a sweeping bend at some speed (the actual limit on this road is 80 going into 100 after the bend... I was going something ;) ). Had some slip after hitting a small bump in the road around this corner with 0 margin for error or I'd run into a barricade on either side.
Came out of it fine, but heart was racing.

These buttons are staying ON for public roads :) .

leaving them on, is the best way to stop learning to control your car....

in the 70s, 80s, and even 90s, most of those craps were not available on cars.... and people were doing fine...

unless you just want to do stupid shit with your car, wich in that case, you will probably crash yourself, if you drive normally, you will just know when you're about to lose it, at the place of driving and never knowing that you are over the limits of the car but the tcs is bringing you back...

Yeah these nannies, while great for some, are definitely for me one of the negatives of my "upgrade".

They'll be off most of the time. If I'm honest, it'll be nice to have them available though.

I used to drift very seriously, and drifting on the street IS NOT a good idea ESPECIALLY if you are only learning and don't know what you're doing...
Don't be a retard, skid pan and track days are cheap....

yeah i turn it off, i have never had cars with it on and i drive them cautiously when conditions require. 600Nm + bald tyres + bad surface + wet roads = one very slow driving experience

brings back the argument - just because tyres are sliding or spinning does not necessarily mean the car is out of control (driver dependant)

so for me i will have them off.

a question for the heroes that drive every second with all assists off:

in what fashion does having these safety measures on infringe on your driving experience on public roads? not 'spirited drives' or mountain runs, your day to day, traffic light to traffic light traffic.

What exactly are these electronic systems crippling in your experience that you so desperately need to disable them?

Hint: "ego" is not a valid answer.

Couldn't agree with you more.
I do Advanced Driver Training and,trust me,the vast majority of people greatly overestimate their ability.
How many people do you know that don't think that they're good [or even very good.....]drivers?
The reality in my experience is very different.
By all means turn off VSC/ESP systems on a race track once you have garnered some basic skills,but there is no reason to do so on public roads.
If you turn them off,and are driving along next to a B double in the rain that decides it wants your lane,trust me your swerve and recover manouvre will be greatly compromised.
We've done this type of scenario at some of the courses,with ESP/VSC on and off,and the results can be potentially devastating with it off.
It's all very well to think these systems are hindering your driving pleasure,but when something goes wrong out of the blue they can literally save your life.
I know just how fast you can lap a race track without the systems interfering much,and if you're triggering them on public roads,you're overdriving the car.
By their very nature they operate when you're exceeding the level of grip of your car.
Sure as Instructors we turn them off on the Track,but mine are very much turned ON for public roads.
In a perfect world we wouldn't need doors or seat belts but unexpected stuff that happens out of the blue can kill you in a second.
I [and my 2 passengers] survived a massive accident some years ago on the way back from the Surfers Paradise races that probably
would have killed us all if the ESP was off,due to the"manouvres" I had to perform to avoid a car carrier on my side of the road.
One minute we were quiety cruising along at 100kph,next we were spread all over the Highway[but we missed the truck]
You can't predict where it's going to go very wrong sometimes,and being an innocent party doesn't make it hurt any less.[5 broken ribs,punctured lung,etc]
And when it does,you'll be thankfull for all the help you can get.
Cheers
Len

Thats something I like to hear right there and exactly how I feel about it.

I do consider myself to be a good driver. The reason I made this thread was to see peoples opinions on the driver assists. As I mentioned in the OP I have had advanced driver training in an STi, Evo 8 and an XR8 Ute. That ute was especially tail happy.
You never know when going around a corner for there to be oil or some other slippery substance on the road causing you to to lose control. Bang. Either your life, or innocent others, are in danger, let alone your new shiny toy.

I'm very happy to be leaving my assist on :).

I cannot agree with you more, yes, in those situation, vsc and all those gadget will probably help you a lot..

STILL... i keep them off... not because i am reckless... i drive responsibly, and when all that electronic stuff is on, I don't KNOW when my car reach it's limit, when it will stop to grip...

and the day i will lose control with all that assitance ON, i will really lose it...

i drive safely, with all the assistance off, and as an exemple, i don't try to overtake a 53 foot truck on the highway when it rains.... why? because i know it is risky and i could oversteer or understeer...

all that electronic assistance, make the car react not like it is supposed to, not normally, and then it change your judgment on what is your real driving limit.... probably it help a lot of drivers... but i prefer to learn, and drive slower on snow or rain, while still knowing that if i smash the gaz in a curve, i could loose it....

then again... if you don't have the judgment to drive without those, and you don't take precaution on your car's handling depending on the condition of the road... maybe it ain't the best choice of car for you..... it's still a small sports car rwd after all...

I have been experiementing with Trac off this last week, today driving through Lamington National park it was definitely more fun feeling the tires spin through the corners and dirt just a more natural feeling.

Although i havn't been through any advanced driving courses i feel more confidient with them off than on especially when it is raining as TSC is too interferring in those conditions.

Another thing i don't like is having to press down the off everytime i start it wish there was option for off by default.

Guys,you're just not getting the point.
Under good conditions,good line of sight etc it doesn't make much difference on or off.
It's when the unexpected happens,or an unknown corner tightens up,or someone runs a red in the wet in front of you and you have to do a violent swerve,that ESP/VSC can save your life.
And it doesn't matter how good you[think] you are,you can't control all the elements and other drivers around you.
You can leave all the gaps you want,but other drivers may not operate to the same programme.
I think I'm more carefull than a lot of drivers,but I still ended up in hospital for ten days through no fault of my driving.
I've had people turn up at the Track,turn everything off[despite never having even seen the track],and proceed straight to the scene of the accident.....after being told to leave it on for a while.
Like I said,the difference between perceived skill levels and reality can be huge,and in most cases,is.
Doing skids in Maccas car park doesn't rate much talent-wise.
Like I said,by all means enjoy your cars,but responsibly under controlled conditions,not public roads.
I ran my 86GT at Wakefield recently in VSC Sport mode as a test,and was amazed by how good it was at speed.
If you think you should turn everything off on the road,you're going way too fast.
Our cars have a very good VSC compared to some,so just use the Sport mode if you're so inclined.
At the track you're responsible for your decisions,on public roads other people can be involved.
Have fun but do it safely.
Cheers
Len

So I must be a "hero" because I drive with them off??
I don't have an ego, nor do I think I am a "hero".
What I do know is my driving capabilities, and I know the car is more capable than I am.
So have you never driven or owned a car without them?? How do you think people survive in cars that don't even have these "aids"??
You do realise that cars haven't always had them, right??

Len, You make some good points and I understand where you are coming from. However, I will pose the same question to you as I did Varvs... How did we all function and stay alive before the invention of these aids?? Until now I have NEVER owned a car with traction or stability control, and I am still alive :)
While yes, they can save lives (I don't doubt or say otherwise), can you not see how they can also make people lazy/complacent??
I haven't had my car at the track yet, but I will soon enough, so I can't comment on how the VSC effects it's performance there yet, but it does reduce the fun you have, especially on track where, while a little sideways isn't fastest, it does provide good fun.

My last car although boring and slow i.e camry, had no TSC or ABS or airbags and i didn't have any issues even when locking up i was able to modulate my braking.

If you are not confidient enough leave all safeties on, but telling us that turning them off is dangerous is absurd as per above makes you complacent and rely on them to safe you.