Alignment FAQ Thread
 

The Alignment FAQ Thread 2013

Welcome to the alignment thread where you can read about other's alignments along with what you need to know.

The Performance Alignment and Alignment Video Primer:
This will help you learn the basics before you post and go in for your alignment.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdStfXl1h4Q&"]FR-S and BRZ Performance Alignment Suggestions - YouTube[/ame]



Camber

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1356480988

Non-Adjustable on the FR-S and BRZ unless you install camber bolts, plates or adjustable bushings. More negative camber in the front or rear can help maximize grip of certain tire combo's and suspension settings for race and auto cross. For street driving negative camber is not something needed in excess. Negative camber does not equate into better handling and more grip for all setups.

Factory Range
Front: -0.8 through 0.8
Rear: -2.0 through -0.5


Toe

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1356482327

Toe is adjustable via factory rear eccentric bolts and front tie rods.
Toe out in the front can help increase steering feel or effort and turn in at the expense of steering stability at higher speed. Will also increase wandering. Usual the rear is toe'd into help braking stability and keep the rear end from getting as loose.

Factory Range
Front: -0.12 through 0.12
Rear: -.04 through 0.20


Caster

Is not adjustable from the factory unless you install strut tower plates or steering kits like those available from Perrin. Caster is not something you would normally adjust unless you are doing many track events. Greater positive caster can help brake stability and feel under high load.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1356482391

Factory Range
Front: 5.2 through 6.7

My Experience

After owning my share of sports cars and doing track, autox and karting a correct alignment is a critical part of automotive performance and safety. A proper alignment can also help increase MPG and driving comfort.

Whats the Big Deal?

There are hundreds of thousands of alignments done each week in America. It is a critical part of keeping a vehicle going down the road properly. The tires are the only object keeping your vehicle connected to the pavement. The alignment of the wheels can make or break how well those tires make contact. A poor alignment can devastate handling and grip more so than most any other vehicle property.

However not all alignments are created equal.

• Alignments are cheap $75 to $100
• Alignments are time consuming 1-2 hours
• Most techs hate doing them because changing one setting effects the other.
• Factory alignment specs are VERY broad which promote laziness from the technicians doing the alignments.
• Alignments are done quantity over quality.
• Alignment racks cost upwards of 50k, most shops try to do as many in the shortest amount of time.

Quote:

"Modern alignment machines make it so easy a 10 year old could do it but some how techs still f*** them up."

My First Alignment OEM Suspension:

My first alignment was done by a body shop. Please note a few problems straight from the factory:

• Camber had a variance from left to right
• The incorrect factory values were loaded
• The final values were hand written which is a red flag
  

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1356480798



My Second Alignment TF Factory
tougefactory.com

This was my second alignment. I had pre-installed the factory crash camber bolts prior to bringing the car in and had them order the rear Whiteline upper control arm camber bushings before my appointment.

Please note a few problems with my alignment from them:

• Took almost 7 hours waiting in the shop
• Did not review final specs before taken off the rack
• After taking delivery of the car the steering wheel was off center
• I returned it to have them correct it same day
  
• After another 2 hours the steering wheel was still off center and the final alignment had large amount of toe-in set on front wheels.
• Factory specs not loaded on alignment machine
• Did not allow me to use driver weight
  

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1356480988



Third Alignment Self Done

For this alignment I installed the Whiteline front camber bolts which were actually re-labeled SPC bolts.

• Very little varience in specs side to side
• Correct values loaded
• Toe settings properly adjusted for street/performance
• Max Camber of SPC/Whiteline front eccentric bolts -1.4

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1356480988


http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1356480988

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1356480798

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1356480798

REAR CAMBER BUSHINGS UPPER REAR CONTROL ARMS

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1355529909

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1356480798
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1356480798

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1356480798

Values without Driver Weight:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1356480798

CAMBER KITS USED FOR MY FINAL ALIGNMENT:

I am in no way endorsing a specific brand or vendor choose the best kit based on your research and your end goal

Whiteline Front Camber Eccentric Bolts Model# KCA416 : (Re-branded SPC Bolts)
Install Time: 10-30 Minutes
Ease of Adjustment: Easy
Ease of Install: Easy
http://ft86speedfactory.com/whitelin...front-200.html

Whiteline Rear Camber Bushings UCA Model # KCA326: (2 Hours Labor to Install - $200)
Install Time: 1.5 - 2.0 Hours
Ease of Adjustment: Medium
Ease of Install: Difficult

http://ft86speedfactory.com/whitelin...r-kit-215.html

Customized Suspensions Create Alignment Headaches

A factory FR-S and BRZ only have adjustable toe.


What if I add adjustable suspension coilovers?

• Now you will need to install camber correction kits to be able to correct camber the changes.
• Lowering the car will change camber variances and toe variances side to side.
• Alignments now require you not only adjust toe, camber but you will also now have to deal with corner balancing.
• As soon as you change the ride height your alignment changes.
• Since your car now has altered adjustable height shocks/struts on each corner, the factory weight balance is now different. (EXAMPLE: A car that was now 52/48 cross balance could now be 40/60 or worse.)
• A normal alignment without adjustable suspension takes about 2 hours.
• An alignment with corner balancing will take as much as 7 hours.
• Corner balancing is a specialty service done by very few shops.

If Adjustable Suspension is Such a Headache Why Do So Many People Do it?

• They don't know any better
• Coilover kits are a dime a dozen
• It's a cheap way to get a drop
• Stigma
• It's advertised as making the car handle, often with no proof of this

10 Things You Should Know Before Installing Coilovers

1. They don't automatically make the car handle better/faster
2. Know the spring rates are of the OEM springs and the Kit you bought (If you dont know this answer then reconsider buying them)
3. You will need camber correction kits and potentially caster kit to get your alignment fixed after the install.
4. If your alignment is out of spec it can effect performance far beyond whatever you may have gained with the coil overs
5. Alignments just got 3x more complicated
6. Alignments now cannot be handled by most shops
7. Do you know what corner balancing is?
8. Every time you change ride height you need to re-corner balance and re-align.
9. There is no such thing as a track setting that is good for the street and vice versa.
10. Most coil over kits were never even tested on a track or street, they were computer designed and MAYBE test fitted. (Ask for proof of testing, chances are you won't get it.)

Absolutely a great thread. Thanks!

Awesome post, great info!

can you comment on the differences between the whiteline bolts and the factory crash bolts? does the whiteline give you more negative camber?

for someone who's looking for some negative camber but nothing extreme, would you recommend camber bolts at the front and the eccentric bushings in the rear?

Please sticky this thread please. Our final alignments are very similar but i stuck with the oem camber bolt and used SPC rear lower control arms. Took a couple tries to get it right, patience is key and having somebody that will do it how you want instead of just trying to get it in factory spec is key.

Very nice points made about coilovers although corner balancing is not really required in most cases for a daily driver. I think brzranger felt that way also. If you do get coilovers but want to keep alignments simple you can get KW, Tein Street Basis, GC Street, Cusco Street Spec, etc that use the factory upper strut mounts.

I appreciate the quick response and quick shipping, will definitely be using you again for other parts.

After I installed the OEM Crash bolts the max camber before alignment was:

FRONT RIGHT: -1.2
FRONT LEFT: -0.7

Since I did not do this alignment myself, the final numbers were actually:
FRONT RIGHT: -0.5
FRONT LEFT: -0.5

There are a few reasons why and please remember this actually may differ from car to car due to manufacturing differences.

• The crash bolts are harder to align because when you loosen them up on the alignment rack camber you are actually pulling on the wheel hub to move the entire assembly in and out. This makes it very difficult to be accurate.
• It takes more time to do the alignment this way.
• The tech doing the alignment may have not wanted to spend the time to get more camber. Once he got both sides even he probably just called it quits.

As you can see the Whiteline/SPC bolts did actually get more negative camber, and were much easier to use to align the car. You can expect a max of -0.9 to -1.4 of camber. And it took about 20 minutes to adjust on the rack. For $55 through ft86speedfactory just use those and be done with it.

Unless you plan on doing autox in a stock class.

I got -1.6 on my factory crash bolts and most have been between -1.2 and -1.6.

Absolutely agree with you. Everyone has a different idea about what the best kits and parts are. I don't even want to get into that. I just wanted to point out that, when you start adding adjustable suspensions the easy part is installing them. The hard part is actually getting the alignment, balancing and tuning setup correctly.

Daily drivers don't need 40 way adjustable shocks, rebound and bound adjustment. It's one of those selling features companies sell like snake oil to people who have no idea what that even means. Most of these same companies can't even provide spring and damper rates on their products either.

I am allowing for this, however every car is different in terms of manufacturing. All I am saying is some cars may get more or less camber with the factory bolts. I don't want to provide wrong information. Nothing worse then telling someone:

"Expect X" And when they get Y they are pissed off.

If you are sticking with stock class for autox go with the crash bolts. If you don't care about that use the Whiteline kit, it's much easier to adjust on the alignment rack and more precise, if you can deal with spending an extra $25.

thanks for the honest feedback. staying in stock class doesn't concern me since i'm not a hardcore autocrosser. i will sell the factory crash bolts and buy some aftermarket camber bolts.

if i understand this correctly, the whiteline bolts don't move the entire hub assembly when adjusting for negative camber.

Are you planning on lowering the car? The rear bushings are PITA to install; I figure once I drop the car that I'm just going to grab some adjustable rear LCA. If you're not going for stock class, it's the better choice IMO.

Sticky this

not looking to lower it anytime soon. it will be just more headaches and money spent into the car that won't really benefit a non-track car.

if i can get about -1.5 at the front and rear, i'll be pretty happy. -1.5 should be pretty decent for spirited driving.

Yes the Whiteline Eccentric Bushings for the rear upper control arms are a pain in the ass to install. The arms have to be removed. The OEM bushings have to be pressed out and the Whiteline's pressed in. It cost me $350 for the parts and the install from TF works.

The only reason I did this is because my factory alignment was poor.

REAR LEFT: -0.1
REAR RIGHT: -1.0

So I wanted to correct it and needed a kit. The adjustable rear lower control arms are much easier however you are now changing the factory suspension components and they stick out like a sore thumb. Very little info has been posted about them either in terms of longevity quality etc. So I stuck with the bushings.

Here is a recommendation, get the parts you need front and back. Talk to a reputable guy like Jeremy from FT86speedfactory or whatever vendor you want. Make sure they have a good return policy on unopened parts.

Make your appointment as mentioned, let them know your intentions, and have them do a baseline alignment check. Should take them about 20 minutes tops to see where you are at in stock form. You may not even need to worry about the rear as some cars have plenty of negative camber in the rear from the factory. Most cars actually have about -1.0 and yours may as well. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYi9wXcC7w"]FT-86, BRZ, FR-S factory wheel alignment review by Whiteline - YouTube[/ame]

If this is the case then just ship back the rear kit to your vendor. Save time and money. Then just have the shop install the front bolts which take 5 minutes a side and get your alignment set how you want it.

My camber was also off an entire degree more on the right rear. The SPC arms are so easy to install it makes up for them being $300 as opposed to $150 for the whiteline kit in my opinion.

As per my video when you turn an eccentric bolt be it the Whiteline or the rear toe eccentric bolt the arm or hub moves like this when the bolt is turned: (White DOT being the bolt being turned)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._animation.gif

Can you keep an eye on them over time and see if your alignment stays in spec in the rear in terms of toe and camber and post back?

Absolutely, Turn in Concepts uses them on their track car also. There are some other LCA's coming to the market soon also. Whiteline and Esoteric should be out soon i've heard of others but haven't seen anything.

sti makes an adjustable rear LCA for the BRZ. i don't know if it's adjustable or not though. i think @Racecomp Engineering has them installed on their BRZ. they may know the answer to this question.

Have to look that one up thanks.

Wow - great thread with good info. Thanks all for posting.

Really second guessing my decision now... I have some Eibach pro-kit springs I was going to have installed at TF Works. OP, Is this same place you had your alignment done? Sure sounds like it, but when I look at their site the address is for 2181 Foster Ave in Wheeling IL. That is different than address on your 2nd alignment sheet. When I asked how they would be doing alignment I was told, "With just the springs we will do neutral non-race alignment for the street...". I assume that is dropping the car on springs and then factory spec alignment. Which I had previously thought would be fine.

I guess I took it for granted when I had Prodrive springs on an STi and the springs came with very specific/exact alignment instructions and settings for after the springs were installed. Eibach pro-kit springs for the BRZ does not come with alignment specs for after install. So I had assumed they wanted OEM alignment.

The real PITA here is there is sooo much variance in the OEM alignment settings. That is a big range across all the factors mentioned.

Should I hold off on my alignment appointment now and get some of the extras mentioned in this thread like camber bolts?

EDIT - Also, OP it looks like the car in the second alignment pic is a Subaru Outback. Were all of the alignments mentioned on your BRZ? I originally assumed so, but confused by that pic. Your last alignment pic indicates it is for a BRZ however.

i forgot to paste the link.

here you go.

http://www.sti.jp/parts/catalogue/br...0250ZR000.html

you have a good point, and that is why i'm not touching any suspension parts until i can grasp all the different things that are going.

it appears that the factory suspension doesn't allow for a lot of adjustments, and when you install aftermarket springs, you may not get the suspension back to its factory specs.

it sounds like it would be a good idea to prepare yourself with an aftermarket suspension kit if something can't be adjusted with the factory suspension parts, such as the whiteline camber bolts. the rear is a bit more tricky and expensive to adjust.

There is basically zero camber in the front from the factory. So the drop will give you more negative camber which is actually good. The question is how much? And what is the variance from left to right?

To do it properly I would at the very least pick up the eccentric bolts for the front. That will only cost you $30-$50. TF should not charge you to install them as will be apart of the spring install anyway. You can point Mike to this thread from TF Works, here I am sure he will take care of it for you no charge.

Adding the front bolts adds next to nothing in terms of alignment time, and at least you know you have even camber on the front and can add more down the road if you choose.

The rear is the concern. Most cars already have around -1.0 in the rear, and like in my case and few others we see -1.0 and 0.0 from side to side.

So with the drop in the back you are going to add at least another -.5.
Talk to TF and make sure they have the rear kit in stock just in case, or the control arms whatever you would want.

That way when they get it on the rack and installed you have your ass covered and you can take care of it right then in there.

Just an FYI if they are going to do the rear bushing camber kit, it will take them forever. So make sure you are not waiting there all day.

>_< So pricey for some stupid arms. I trust TIC and bought quite a few things from them for my GD WRX. As long as the design is solid (read: not Agency Power, there's discussion on those) and some routine checkup is done on the pillowball, everything should be fine.

I just want to clarify the first two places I had my alignment done at, did not have their machines updated. So they substituted the specs for another car to get the alignment machine to start the process. Did they bother to look up the factory specs afterwords? I don't have any idea.

This is why I included the specs on the first page just in case they don't have their system updated, and you can be educated before you go in.

In the alignment I performed myself, the machine was properly updated with the proper specs before we started.

@Dezoris, for educational purposes, can you list the possible aftermarket parts (eg., camber plates, camber bolts, bushings, etc) to induce negative camber, and possibly the pros and cons of each

There are so many and more coming, one that caught my eye recently was these AST ones from TIC. I trust these guys along with RCE on suspension stuff, if you want camber plates anyways i don't personally.

http://turninconcepts.com/product_in...oducts_id=1258

There are also the Ground Control ones, Whiteline Com C, RCE is coming out with some, etc.

thanks.

it's confusing when there are so many options to get negative camber. it would be nice if there was some sort of FAQ that has a list of all the different options and their pros/cons.

I tried to make a list one night but i don't have the organizational skills like Darren has done in the wheel thread.
For the front your basic options are just the OEM camber bolts or Whiteline, then you can step up to camber plates.

For the rear you have the Whiteline upper a arm bushing which is cheapest but also most difficult to install. There are a number of rear lower control arms, only a few i like that are reasonably priced, SPC, Whiteline, GTSpec but there are more of these coming out too.

Not to say there are other quality options out there but some of them are over $500 so these are just the ones i like, i sell other ones i could make more money on but those are my favorites.

it is my understanding that aftermarket coilovers don't provide negative camber adjustments, correct? the reason why you get negative camber from an aftermarket coilover is because of the shorter coilover length, but there are no adjustments unless you get some type of camber kit (mentioned in the above posts).

It's going to be even more confusing.
Ayau, I added what I used in my original post.

I hesitate to start recommending brands or products when it will be impossible to keep up with all of them. However I will add a breakdown of each type and why you would use them.

However, as Joe mentioned the Whiteline/SPC eccetric front bolts are tried and true for 90% of FR-S/BRZ owners. If you need more camber adjustment than those bolts provide, chances are you will will be spending a lot of time on the track.

Same with the rear bushings, they just work when you need camber "correction."

Coilover kits that have upper camber mounts will give you adjustment in the front but not the rear, there aren't any on the market *right now* that offer camber adjustment on the rear.

100% correct, lowering the ride height generates more negative static camber. Most kits do not include camber correction.

Some coil overs offer camber/caster plates which are installed and adjusted at the shock tower.

On the wait list for the Whitelines direct FTW!

I'd like to see the whiteline arms as well. Hopefully painted black ;)

do you think there will be other options in the future to add more camber?