My Engine getting forged.
 

AWDtuning splitting cases and installing forged internals prior to boosting.....so at this point is my warranty still good? LOL !.....EJ257 piston on left,..... 86 FA20 forged on right (lower compression) Arias....noticable smaller. Pauter forged rods.Crank race bearings.

Yes just send me your info to help save our beloved Nigerian Prince

:bellyroll:

Got some details? What all are they installing... costs? Flower Mound isn't so far away :D

Talk to Keith , Mary , or Will at AWD,.....they will hook you up....They are Subaru experts and have for years, made serious power from these engines. Extremely reasonable price wise.

Nice...you will be able to turn up the boost. I'm waiting to see how the stock internals hold up. I'm only looking for 270-310 whp. At least you will have piece of mind when boosting.

updates? @cf6mech

I think this is his...from AWDs site

http://www.awdtuning.com/media-port/...013-scion-frs/

I couldn't get the video from their site to work for me but here it is

[ame]http://youtu.be/f1GBRKdXQgg[/ame]

Mmmmmm, forged internals always look so good.


All your base are belong to me.

I was hoping for a bit more than 322whp on a fully built motor, there's guys running ~300whp on stock internals on 93 octane.

Built motor doesn't automatically mean more power, it means more reliable. He also lowered the compression 3 points which drastically lowers the amount of power per PSI.

I think he was running around 13 psi and made 330, which is more psi than stock but its more reliable than making that power with 8 psi on stock internals.

He could max out the turbo at around 450rwhp on pump has and his engine will be completely fine, not unlike the stock motor at that boost level on pump gas.

stock internals are already holding strong at over 640whp :-D

310 not even denting them :)

it's nice to hear the stock setup will hold a ton of power, but the car was never built to withhold this kind of stress.
Better to be safe than sorry

i would lover this compression to get some real torque ANY DAY.

Actually its at 365whp / 301 for torque,.... on a very conservative Mustang Dyno. All the claims of reliability at more power un-forged,...good luck with that.

good luck with everything man.

I totally understand all of that, my point was why go to the expense of building the engine to only make ~20whp more.

There's lots of cars making good power on stock internals, if it were me I would run stock internals until there's a problem and have an engine built then.

Other things like transmission, rear end, brakes, suspension that need to be upgraded too before big power.

One step at a time :thumbup:

Usually when you get to that problem its too late allready to save the block

I was shocked at how "cheap" built blocks are. P&L has one on the shelf they were going to throw in their car, but with the power the stock block was holding they passed.

A shortblock from subaru is about $2500 + forged puts it in the 4-5k range.

640 on e85. A built engine could probably hit 900 maybe 1000whp on e85. IF the owner dare too.

I think most Tuners dont recommend more then 8-10PSi on 93Octane

i want this so bad. i'm jealous.

IMO, even the power of 5psi (~250-280whp) is more than you should be running on stock brakes. The transmission and rear ends in the 500whp+ cars seem to be holding up fine with nothing more than a stronger clutch, which this will absolutely need already anyway and should've been done with the engine out if it wasn't.

Ive also dealt with AWDtuning. Would recommend them to anyone!

Ask the guy who threw a rod and had to replace an entire longblock as opposed to just splitting the stock case and putting in new internals.

I have been around Subaru turbo engines long enough to realize chances are with the stock internals it will be a matter of when it will break moreso than if especially if you are pushing it. I hope I'm proven wrong but there is nothing wrong with paying for some piece of mind.

ON E85

Try running that high on pump gas and let us know what happens :)

I don't really understand this response...... It doesn't matter if its E85, pump gas, flux capacitor, or cracked out gerbils. 640hp results in the same stress on compenents no matter how you make it. The only difference is that E85 allows you to do it. Detonation on E85 or pump gas has the same destructive nature regardless if it's built or not. Detonation can kill the most invested engines you can build. Sometimes built engines allow some more forgiveness but the real reason for built engines regardless of fuel type is to withstand the pure stress of making more powah! It should not be done to combat detonation........

The fact that a stock engine is surviving 640hp is testament to the stock components and more so the tune. Could it be a one off? perhaps, but still rather amazing when you think about the amount of cylinder pressures being generated on stock pistons. The shear force being applied to stock rods under that muh pressure is crazy. Not to mention the stock valvetrain holding this too. I am all for built engines though there is no question they will last a long service life under severe punishment assuming you are avoiding detonation like the plague. For longevity the rule of thumb is over build and under power with a fantastic tune.

He's only suggesting that detonation is far worse on internals than more power. We're talking about the limitations of pump gas on stock compression ratio here.

Also, E85 is awesome.

The internals are impressive, no doubt and I don't disagree. The fact that people have been making north of 500hp on E85 is incredibly impressive. However, unless you lower the compression ratio there is no way you're going to get that power out of pump gas without detonation, hence my original post.

Many people don't have access to the stuff, nor would they want to use it even if they could. For making great power, go for it. But for the rest of us, it's important to clarify that the same cannot always be done with pump gas.

If this was directed at me no worries,...Clutchmaster FX400 is installed,..Drive Shaft Shop carbon fiber driveshaft,...and Drive Shaft Shop Axles,...Stop Tech BBK brake kit. Don't know what these claimed 500+whp FRS/BRZ are using for dynos or fuel delivery systems (and I'm not talking just fuel pumps and injectors) because this engine gets extremely lean trying to support those kind of numbers without some kind of surge tank setup or different FUEL RAIL SYSTEM. Might run for awhile that way, but more sooner than later things are going to go POP !,..eventually someone will come up with a viable solution,...but right now there isn't any that will keep it from going too lean at full pull above say 350whp to be reliable long term.

Seems FBM has figured it out and working on a fix,...STOCK THERE IS NOT ENOUGH VOLUME OF FUEL TO RELIABLY BE BOOSTED ABOVE 350WHP.
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there were no claims of reliability of higher powered engines being made, just a simple fact that the stock internals of the engine are holding up with almost double the power you are making, without the expense or labor of installing forged components. :) congrats on the new engine. :party0030:

Holding power right now and holding power for 60K miles are two different things.

ok.

I have strong suspicions that many of these high horsepower "stock motor" cars have built motors now for one reason or another. I don't think the stock internals can handle the power that many are led to believe.

:thanks:

Ive seen the stock internals up close and person when they came through my block. The Rods leave alot to be desired!

The rod's are obviously the weakpoint of the short block. But I think it is way too soon to go after them.

Doesn't matter how strong the short block is, until the DI/coilpack/overheating detonation issue is resolved it is premature to build a short block. The issue is turning into an epidemic, if the root cause is poorly machined DI ports, gonna wish you had 2014 cylinder heads on that forged bottom end. IOW's blow a DI seal and a forged short block will blow up just as easy as a stock short block.

Good luck.

NICE! Good luck with the build!

Keith and Mary are good people

I'm just a few minutes down from their shop

I definately agree with you... FWIW mine blew because of something unrelated to the strength of the rods, they were just the first thing to let go. I would have suspected a forged shortblock to do the same given the situation. Hmmm thats interesting regarding the DI, My car has never used the DI and i'm still up in the air about what i'm gonna do regarding the ports when my new motor goes together soon.

Don't have a DI problem with my engine, I guess I'm lucky,....if I did it would of showed up along time ago,...I'm at 20psi of boost......with probably 50 dyno pulls....no overheating issues.....as far as building a short block forged,.... its common sense for my application IMHO.

Time will most certainly tell the true story. I cant imagine beginning a 400+ project without including forged internals into the equation. The additional strength (durability) and lower CR (flexibility) make the cost decision a no brainer. I am looking for a ~275 solution with a focus on temperature management that can take multiple track sessions in the southeast without issue. Even at this modest output I am probably going to make the switch as I prefer to do things once and try to get it right the first time.