Originally Posted by M-17 (Post 607065)

I still prefer the F-150 over the Silverado. Do you know if the Sierra will have the same interior?

Originally Posted by Supermassive (Post 610206)

I haven't like GM trucks since well...maybe the first Z71's in the late 90's. It also doesn't help GM's case that as a company, they failed the US, by requiring a bailout from taxpayer money to stay in business because of poor management and lackluster design and quality.

That said, I drive a Titan, best damn truck I have ever driven...can't wait to see the new Titan design...hopefully it's just an evolutionary design so you can still tell its a Nissan.

Originally Posted by Supermassive (Post 610206)

I haven't like GM trucks since well...maybe the first Z71's in the late 90's. It also doesn't help GM's case that as a company, they failed the US, by requiring a bailout from taxpayer money to stay in business because of poor management and lackluster design and quality.

That said, I drive a Titan, best damn truck I have ever driven...can't wait to see the new Titan design...hopefully it's just an evolutionary design so you can still tell its a Nissan.

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie (Post 611420)

1. These new motors are going to be 11:1 compression, direct injection, with VVT (cam phasing only) and AFM (cylinder deactivation.) Sounds real outdated.

http://www.lsxtv.com/news/gen-v-fami...ncluding-a-v6/



2. The 4.3 V6 shares only displacement with the "28 year old motor" of which you speak. It shares NOTHING else. That motor features all the same basic technology found in the new LT1. That's like saying the 5.0 out of the Fox Mustang is the same as the 5.0 in the 2012 Boss 302.

3. The EcoBoost 3.5 V6 is not a lower tier engine for the F150, it's simply an alternative to the 5.0 V8. It actually costs more to option than They make comparable power and get comparable fuel mileage. The 4.3L EcoTec3 is going to be a base motor. Try comparing it to the base 3.7 V6 F150 instead.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/04/c...or-towing-not/


http://www.cleveland.com/business/in..._ecoboost.html

If you get a trim level with the 5.0 standard, the EcoBoost is $1,095 more.

4. There are NO performance figures out for the new EcoTec3 5.3 or 6.2 motors. You're quoting numbers from the outgoing generation of Vortec motors.

http://www.lsxtv.com/news/gen-v-fami...ncluding-a-v6/

5. Displacement/power is meaningless in a vacuum. A Toyota 4.6 DOHC V8 makes as much power as a 5.3 OHV V8. Thanks for that stunning revelation. The OHV V8 is smaller, lighter, simpler to repair and maintain, and gets comparable gas mileage. The 4.6 is uses less displacement to skin this cat. BFD.

6. The outgoing Vortec 6.2 made 403hp/417tq. That is not the motor being released with this generation. That motor was released in 2007. But if you insist on continuing this apples to oranges comparison, the current Ford SOHC 6.2 makes 411/434. I wouldn't exactly call that killing the competition.

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie (Post 611645)

This is ridiculous. The engines are brand new. They share displacement and the fact that they're pushrod V8s. The power figures are not yet released. The 4.3 V6 you refer to was released in 2002. The 3.7 V6 was released in 2011. That's essentially apples to orangutans.

Vortec 5300 - 310/345, 9.9:1 compression, injectors in the intake, fixed timing.

If you insist that these are the same motors, take that motor, add direct injection and cam phasing, bump the compression to 11:1. What do you get? Oh, that's right, more power. Because that's what GM did for the current generation.

This is starting to just look like trolling.

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie (Post 612117)

This assumption is why I think you're trolling. You have no idea what kind of power the new engines are going to make, but you want me to accept that no matter what, it will be less than the Ford offerings based on absolutely zero empirical evidence.

Your assumption is seemingly based on the fact that the engines are going to be substantially the same because they're pushrod v8s with the same displacement and ignoring the large bump in compression. Drop the FA20 in your car from 12.5:1 to 11.5:1 and see how much power you lose.

The EcoBoost 3.5 V6 you continually refer to is a twin turbo motor that costs MORE than the 5.0 V8 option. Why would you compare that to the base NA V6 in the upcoming Silverado?

The current 5.3 has a 9.9:1 CR. If I took that motor and did pistons and milled the heads to bump it up to 11:1, that motor would easily pick up 30hp. What did GM do this generation? Oh right, it built a 5.3 with 11:1 compression.

Originally Posted by JoeBoxer (Post 612153)

The ford 3.5 is twin turbo, the 3.7 is what you would compare to the 4.3 in the Chevy...

Originally Posted by JoeBoxer (Post 611979)

Still rather have a Dodge, better looking, nicer interior, 5.7 Hemi with almost 400hp, 8 speed auto and available factory air suspension front and rear. I had a 2011 R/T and it was a beast but resale value was awful when they came out with the Express models.

Originally Posted by Hachivic (Post 612417)

Those hemi rams are sick. I was at a red light a while ago with a ram in front of me .When the light turned green that thing took off like a bat outta hell.

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie (Post 612409)

I'm not. I'm lambasting you for failure to be objective and assuming facts.

You are ignoring the fact that the EcoBoost 3.5 is a twin turbo motor designed to be an alternative to the 5.0 V8 and has no place in a discussion of base engines.

You are assuming that, even with the technology and specs I've proven will go into the new motors, they will still simply fall short of the figures for comparable motors from Ford. You have no earthly idea if they will, but, to support this point, you point to previous power figures as representative of exact future power figures.

You are assuming that the 4.3L Vortec, which was released in 2002, is an accurate indicator of future results, completely ignoring any further advancements in GM powertrain tech. Like the 3.6 DI V6 in the Camaro that makes 312/278. That competes directly with the 3.7 V6 found in the base F150, as that motor came directly from the Mustang V6.


However, even in spite of all this, all I'm asserting is that you should not condemn a product simply based on your assumptions of future power output, that, from what you have represented, are based on an idea which you plucked out of the air that this generation of engines will have negligible gains over the outgoing engines in willful ignorance of the differences between the engines.

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie (Post 612534)

I guess you could. I assume that the direct injection and increased compression will lead to a bump in power to make the motors competitively comparable with their corresponding motors from Ford and Chrysler.

However, what I haven't done is carried that assumption through and condemned or endorsed the entire vehicle.

That is true. Of the current generation. Unfortunately, you wrote that about a truck and a line of motors that you know virtually nothing about.

Again, this would be an astute observation about the 2013 Silverado. But again, you were talking about the 2014.

I don't know whether or not they will be competitive. However, the increase in tech over previous generations increases the likelihood that they will be. I have not foreclosed the possibility that these products will suck. You have foreclosed the possibility that they will be competitive and choose to look at individual facts without context to support that opinion.


"The FR-S makes 200hp from 2.0L. The Genesis makes 275hp from 2.0L. I don't know why anyone would spend the money for an FR-S when you could get a clearly superior vehicle for the same or less money." See how that logic falls apart?


Or how about we rewind to March of this year.
"The FB20 makes 145hp. The FA20 is the same engine, but with more compression and direct injection. Clearly it will only make 145hp. The Miata makes 170hp. Better entry-level sports cars can be had for essentially the same cost as an FR-S."

Originally Posted by Wes B. (Post 613976)

Sorry, but from the looks of things, you've been doing your best to endorse the GM/Chevy Silverado 1500.

"Facts without context" -- Kind of sounds like what you've been posting this entire thread.

Originally Posted by chulooz (Post 614891)

Saw a Sierra with a big 'BUILT IN DETROIT' written across the back glass; fool doesnt know that his truck is hancho en mexico.

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie (Post 614726)

This has gone on long enough. You've written the trucks off. I haven't endorsed them, but I refuse to write them off. We disagree on the power potential of the new motor. Neither of us is going to convince the other of anything, no matter how many facts or assumptions we throw at each other. I'm sick of arguing the same points over and over again. Come NAIAS, one of us will eat crow. Until then, I'm content to stay this conversation.

Originally Posted by Wes B. (Post 617964)

I've written them off because there are far better alternatives for the same price. What's to say that the 2014 will be any different?

Originally Posted by ottopilot (Post 606988)

So today GM unveilled their new truck, all I have to say is I'm pretty underwhelmed with them, they look like the old one with a bigger grill and new headlights....

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie (Post 618010)

Don't know. Nobody knows one way or the other. We'll see in January.

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie (Post 833836)

5.3 Ecotec3 power figures released. 355hp/383tq. 16mpg city, 22mpg hwy for a 4wd. 16/23 for 2wd.

Ford's 5.0 truck motor makes 360/380, gets 14/19 for 4wd. 15/21 for 2wd.

Originally Posted by Wes B. (Post 897157)

Gearing for each truck?

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie (Post 899667)

The 2013 F150 can be optioned with a 3.31, 3.55, or 3.73. 6th gear on the 5.0 is 0.69

The 2014 Silverado, according to AOL Autos, can be optioned with a 3.08, 3.42, or 3.73. I don't have trans gearing information for the 2014 Silverado specifically, but the current 6L80/90 has a .67 6th gear. No idea if that's been changed.

Originally Posted by Wes B. (Post 899811)

While the figures are impressive for the new 2014 Silverado, I still not wholly convinced it is the better truck when compared to the F-150.

As far as power figures are concerned, I congratulate Chevy on churning out some pretty decent power figures. The recent power increase puts them on par with the F-150.

I firmly believe, however, that the most misleading figures are those relating to Chevy's gas mileage claims. Sure, the Silverado might certainly get 2-3 mpg more than the comparable F-150, but lets take a look as to why that might be the case. At 70 mph, the F-150's engine is spinning at 1,733 rpm while the Silverado is spinning at 1,566 rpm. This accounts for about 1 mpg, and the 1-2 remaining can be accounted for the fact that the SIlverado's engine turns off 4 of its cylinders when cruising. So, it's really no wonder that it gets slightly better gas mileage than the F-150.

All in all, Chevy has come a long way, but I simply don't understand all of the hype surrounding their new lineup.

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie (Post 900265)

The hype is mostly that they're finally bringing a new, competitive product to market. The GMT900 model cycle lasted far too long and was, in the end, grossly inferior to other offerings.