Is this car traction limited for some reason?
 

Well, with winter here and the first few miles of winter driving, I have to declare this car to have less traction in the rear than what makes sense. Is there anything about the design of the rear suspension that would cause this condition? It is certainly worse than the Miata or a Pick-up truck.

As background, my 37 years of driving experience has been almost entirely with RWD platforms and the FRS has a set of Blizzack snow/ice tires.

So far, the traction control seems to keep things under control, but I have to wonder how it will feel going down the highway during blizzard conditions? Anyone further into winter conditions than me and have some real world experience to report?

On the plus side, since I can get away with it, it looks like the FRS is going to spend some serious (deliberate) sideways time while commuting during snowfalls!:burnrubber:

My guess would have to be due to the skinny rims, regardless that you have snow tires. If they're the same size as the OEM tire, then that would explain your limited traction, from what I've seen/read across the Internet. Then again, I do not know much about driving in snow as I live in the South and we get snow to where it makes driving difficult about once every 5 years or so.

"Driving with snow tires"
"Do not drive in excess of 30 mph (50 km/h), regardless of the type of snow
tires being used."

Strait from the BRZ manual

@Eurasianman careful what you read on the internet. Wider is not always better.

@NOHOME I've not been in snow but my seat time in an FRS was on a wet/slippery surface and it was plenty easy to slide the rear around. I imagine it will be like proper sports cars from the past... requiring a delicate touch in inclement weather (or a big grin while you hang it sideways!). Let's see some pictures of fun in the snow!

I lol'd.:bellyroll:

Except for a few exceptions (vehicles designed to operate on top of the snow) narrower than summer tires is always better in the winter. You want a small contact patch with lots of the cars weight on it.

-Rich H.

Glad I put in my post that I pulled the info from the 'Internet' :p

I drove mine yesterday in the blizzard here in Salt Lake City. I am ordering my snow tires this morning. Also remember that AWD is only going to improve power Traction. AWD has nothing to do with stopping power. Stopping power is entirely left to the tires on the car.

Oh, and plus 1 to the "Skinny is better" in snow comment.

Where's that guy who drove 60 mph on summer Primacy's through 2" of snow?

Hopefully he crashed his car being that responsible :slap:

Weight is also key with the right tires.
I would say that since it's pretty light in the rear, adding some weight in the back will have a significant impact.

I've driven on stock tires in 40^F weather and felt the loose traction. Also driven on 205/50/17 Dunlop WS 3D tires in 55^F weather and felt the loose traction. It was strange; the tires were great on my WRX in the winter and I assume they'll perform great on this platform, but the first roundabout I took I felt and heard the rear slide out. Haven't gotten my salt or sandbags into the trunk yet though.

It's the factory tune in the suspension, the stiffer rear spring induces "lift off" oversteer which means the car will oversteer even when off the power. It can be exacerbated with less available friction.

The traction control should be able to correct this easily on the highway, surface streets with tighter turns might give you some fits.

the car does the same thing in the rain, at 10-20 mph you can drift forever, but me and a few members went on a cruise, we were doing 100mph through some of the sweepers on backroads in the rain, my traction light never came on

sometimes more snow the better, especially since you have good winter tires

give it time, take it slow :D

if you want to go fast, i would say try some rally cross to sharpen your skills, in the snow on blizzacks is like on dirt with knobby tires

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfOEJ-HZ1-Q"]NÜRBURGRING Formula Race Car. ICE and SNOW. NORDSCHLEIFE. GRAND PRIX TRACK. ANDY GÜLDEN. - YouTube[/ame]

ill leave this here

Thanks for stating this. I have already said the same thing in another threads about snow tires and traction.

OP: I think its the lightweight car that is the culprit here. The traction nannies help, but most are saying its still an effort to move with speed on snow/ice. I'm guessing that most drivers who want to use their cars in winter conditions may resort to the 'sand tubes' most pickups and other RWD cars need in the trunk for some circumstances (like that one 'hill' that ices up due to the old school brick roadbed, ask me how I know...)

Eric G

I think by the time it snows down here in MA my snow tires will be worn out from this nice weather.

Same here. I think next year I'm waiting for the first forecast of snow before switching them on.

-_- Same. It keeps jumping between low 40s and high 50s. I put mine on later than I did last year and I'm still thinking I could have waited; I was just tired of night time driving in the moisture, which wasn't pleasant on the OEM tires at 40^F.

Don't fret. I have yet to see evidence that winter tires wears faster on dry pavement / summer. Some people use them all years long here, including me...

But I don't know how you drive :bellyroll:

With everything turned off, my god i've never driven a more tail happy car in snow!
I can't turn in a intersection without going sideways even at 5mph :D But i like it, it's fun, hehe.

But if i keep traction control on and just go easy around it feels like any other car except ther slip light is constantly blinking, hehe.

Yea I suppose better safe than sorry with the snow tires. I just can't wait for the first real snow fall. Now I just need to find some empty parking lots.

Tire width barely affects contact patch size. Total contact patch area = (roughly) weight/tire PSI. Tire width affects contact patch shape. So what you said makes no sense whatsoever. You'd still want narrow tire, but not for the reason you gave.

2 OP: how many miles do you have on your winter tires? My Xi3s were very slippery for the first 1-2 hundred miles (normal for all tires). It's okay now, unless it's wet and 60s. Then it's like I'm driving on ice :P

I've driven mine in some crazy snow/ice and it's just because it's lighter than what you're used to. I have studded hanooks with 2 40lb salt bags in the trunk. Might put a third in there.

Mighty fun. :)

I guess what I was looking for was design considerations. The weight thing never had a lot of validity with me since the car has plenty of weight and it is well balanced front to rear. My Miata was a snowmobile compared to the FRS and never made for a lack of confidence in snow conditions. I could however, always tell if a Miata had a sandbag in the trunk because it was traveling backwards: more than 50% of weight in back does that every time the brakes lock up!

I will give it a bit more time and experience. The tires are only a few hundred miles old and as mentioned, even the manufacturer says they will be slick for a while. I guess I find it unusual in that the FRS is the first car I have owned that might actually NEED stability control in order to stay on the road. Are cars starting to be like fighter aircraft in that they can no longer sustain basic flight without computer intervention?:sigh:

I'd guess the Miata is just softer all around which makes it easier for it to keep grip in very low grip situations.

He probably meant narrower contact patch.

Yep I bet that has something to do with it. I've noticed cars that are softly sprung/damped are more stable in the snow. Makes me wonder if disconnecting the swaybars in the FR-S would be an easy fix (along with adding ballast to the rear).

Now we might be on to something, a non-compliant suspension will be more prone to let loose during transitions maneuvers. Might be on to something with the swaybar; Old rain racing trick.

Still not sold on having the weight balance shifted past 50-50.

Studded snow tires? Why not chains also! Think I will keep this apples to apples? Studs are a big no-no in most places and noisy as hell if you do have them.

55Front 45 rear and a super low front CofG = dosn't want to transfer weight to the rear = limited traction...It's a purdy pick'em up truck sand/salt will help LOTS.

yeah! the car's too f**kin' light! lack of "ballast" compromises traction in spite of having narrow snow tires on it!

wow! there ya go!

ehe! he! he! you wouldn't be laughin' if ya lived here!
for sure ain't no snowmobile!

thank "christ" for the nannies in "'THIS" car

Aren't you obligated by law to use winter tires during winter weather?
Here in Sweden there is a law that states, winter tires must be used between 1 december -> 31 March IF the weather conditions are snow/ice/snowmud and cold weather (around zero degres celsius).

Someone needs to get a GoPro and make snow driving tutorials - FT86 style. :D

they DO wear at a faster rate,because of the softer compound rubber.

After 2 weeks of snow and ice conditions I can say that despite having EXCELLENT winter tires the car is very sketchy. Doing about 60km/h and the back in constantly stepping out with any throttle at all, the TC system is amazing though and always catches it. I would not want to be doing 100km/h+ for any length of time.

That would make sense but there are no such laws here unfortunately. Most people have no idea what kind of tires are on their car. It's scary to think about :(

Open to discussion. Summer/performance tires are pretty soft and wear out faster than winter tires would. My winter tires last way longer than all the summer/sports tire I ever had. I had summer tires last 1 summer and a pair of winter tires last 2 summers and 3 winters.

Not what I wanted to hear. I assume winter tires?

There has to be something about the rear suspension to this car because in the wet with the traction control off I ca steer it with the throttle all day long. I actually worry that I might get an exhibition/dangerous driving ticket just coming off a ramp on a surface street.:burnrubber:

im glad the auto has a "snow" mode, have you tried starting off in second to limit the tq?