My AP Exhaust Problems!
 

Well so far ive had nothing but nightmares with this exhaust. Below i will describe why.

I purchased this exhaust from Vivid Racing about 4 months ago, the first time with the exhaust at the track the mid pipe connecting to the rear section of the muffler came loose causing it to bend and scratch as it dragged in the track it held together which was nice but it was almost completely ruined. First i thought that i had not tightened it correctly so i tightened it as much as i could again, and even the local track mechanic checked it out and said it was good to go.

A couple of weeks later i noticed the exhaust was leaking by the clamps since it had black exhaust snoot around there and after another lap session the exhaust came loose again as i was coming back into the pits. I tightened it as much as i could and noticed now that it was starting to leak where the rear section connects to the right exhaust canister but i checked it out and it was tight so i paid no attention to it. My last two track days have been night mares between the mid pipe and right section popping off every 5 laps (btw this caused my oem rear diffuser to burn). I also noticed that my catback had the logo on the right exhaust tip and it had nothing on the left exhaust tip, i guess it slipped by them when they shipped it but at 800+ dollars this should be no excuse.

I decided to contact vivid on Monday explaining the problem and sending them pictures of the exhaust, keep in mind this is not my first track car and i have had nothing but great experiences with greddy, hks, borla, and tomei at the track but i had never tried AP. Sure enough their sales manager got back to me and told me he was going to get in touch with AP and fix this asap.

Well he did get back in touch with me but offered me to send it in and he would have it repaired and sent back. Now my main problem with this is that i cant have down time i have a couple track days that i have paid for and they are non refundable, so sending in the exhaust means loosing $500 bucks in my track fees plus the shipping of the exhaust both ways which imo is in a non repairable condition, its going to cost me almost the same to just purchase a new exhaust. Sadly i cant run my oem exhaust because i threw it in the trash thinking i would never need it again. My mid pipe is bent, the welds on the clamps that are integrated to the rear section are torn and so is the right rear section, it leaks, its scratched since it dragged on the floor and its missing a logo on one of the exhaust tips, so i really dont know why they would want to repair this exhaust. Its not in the garbage yet because i may have to just take the clamps off and weld it at a muffler shop to keep me from missing my track events until my new invidia exhaust arrives. I was also notified by their sales manager that since i track my car they could not issue a full warranty replacement. So to me thats not standing behind your product, a good exhaust should be made to take abuse in the street and on the track. Way to treat a customer that has purchased with you guys for over 4 years, and im not talking intakes and shift knobs im talking about parts for 2 full track builds and at least 3 other DD vehicles ive spent a good amount of dough with them. I really miss their old sales guy Billy, he always took care of me.

I had a similar problem with a tomei turbo outlet pipe on my sr20det the thing cracked and i was issued a new one by tomei no questions asked after it cracked after only 2 track events, or my boomba catch can that the glass cracked and they sent me a new one as well no question asked. Shows you the difference in customer service.

Here is my old evo x thread of the boomba catch can

http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25591

Anyways had to vent and let you guys know what my experience has been, i hope you guys do the same and share your nightmares on the forum so we know what we are purchasing.

Pic of the right exhaust tip that has the logo and my burned diffuser:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...F58358F9AA.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...F58BB6E9D6.jpg

Right Exhaust Tip with no logo

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...S/IMG_0782.jpg


First track event my exhaust popped off here are some pics of the damage, you can see the clamped scratched up a bit while it dragged as well, so this would stop vivids claim that i might have hit something!:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...S/IMG_0820.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...S/IMG_0819.jpg



welds tore on the rear brace screws:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...F56B67CC3A.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...F552720B92.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...F5644DA7C8.jpg


You can see some exhaust snoot where the exhaust clamp is leaking, and yes i have double checked and triple checked that its tight.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...F57A70A7F9.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...F5731F9A18.jpg

Right canister keeps popping off!!

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...24409A387C.jpg

I don't know how they will fix that dent. You must of smacked it hard.I would of asked if they can give you a new or "refurbished" and cross ship.

Worse comes to worse I would just run the stock exhaust. I don't see it doing anything damaging to your tune.

Well it popped off during a lap and it banged on the floor for a bit and dragged thats why its scrapped, on my build thread i posted about it. I thought it was my mistake because maybe i did not tighten it enough but the track mechanic mounted it again and tightened it and approved me and it popped off again.

Here was their response, direct copy and paste from the email they sent:

"I spoke with Agency Power and they have offered to take a look at it and can repair the damaged unit, but with the issues you've already had with the system on the track we would not be able to supply a warranty replacement "

"Agency Power does stand behind the product by all means, although with the situation of your system falling off once and taking track abuse this would need to be inspected and repaired rather than replaced as a warranty. I have attached a picture of a new exhaust and its integrated clamps, it is unheard of to see this over tightened to the point of ripping off. This is the situation we have and I apologize for any issues this may have caused. The other damage to the system has caused concern, this does not seem to be an issue of an exhaust that will not handle abuse, although every component has its limit."

I used to work at HKS and never heard of anything like that at work or on my own free time. I've never heard of an exhaust getting damaged from purely "track abuse". An old or rusted or off-track experience or improperly installed exhaust would be a good reason to void a warranty replacement but it doesn't seem to be the case.

Basically it would be nice to hear why Agency Power does not supply a warranty replacement.

I'm not really understanding why you tracking your car has anything to do with a defect in the exhaust. What if it fell off while driving around and it got scraped? No where in their limited warranty filing page does it state that tracking your car voids anything. If they void warranties on this basis they should atleast inform their customers.

I have the same exhaust, i am havin a power loss issue that i just started investigating. I really need to put the car up on jacks and make sure I don't have the same issues you do. I have no plans of ever removing the exhaust so do you think welding it would be okay. or do you think it would make it too difficult to install a high flow cat and headers down the road? I really love the sound of the exhaust but I'm scared to have problems down the road.

I would like to hear it as well man, i have been very transparent and honest in my build thread and i posted about the exhaust coming loose after my first track event. I actually gave them the benefit of the doubt but when it came off again and i saw leaks in the clamps i knew it was the exhaust. I have 4 witnesses that were at the track when the exhaust came loose. The sales manager even said while we were talking on the phone that why was i mad at the exhaust if i was happy with it before, i was happy because i had not realized the quality of it and i gave them the benefit of the doubt the first time it came loose and even put on my build thread that it might have been my mistake. Then after i got pissed he went on and said that i could have hit the exhaust loading my trailer etc thats why they wanted to see it. Sucks that after being their customer for 4+ years they would doubt that i would lie about something like that just to get a new part now. I had the opportunity to send it back and get it fixed and i decided to just suck it up and rather bought a new exhaust today from evasive so thinking i would do it to get a freebie is ridiculous on their part.

Racing is the root of all evil!!! (tongue firmly in cheek)

Slip joints are utter garbage, we had the same problem with the clamp always letting loose on the Solo Performance exhaust on the Solstice. Our solution was to buy V clamps and weld em on. The bonus here is we had 2 rear sections in case we had issues with meeting sound, so they each had a mating collar in case we ever had the need to switch, it was super easy.

http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS-Performan...98388/10002/-1

Buy a pair of bands, a clamp, and you've got an interim solution for your track days, it could be a long term fix, but that sucker looks pretty mangled...


But yea... I read their response as "Agency Power does not design their product for track use"... so if you plan to track the car, probably should look elsewhere to those companies who do design for track use.

The problem with my leaks are on the rear section , the front connection to the cat seems fine since it mounts as the stock one would. The problem is the rear slip ons, i think their clamps are not tough enough and the pipes are to short so there is very little pipe inside the clamp which causes it to leak and pop off. I guess the heat from the track really gets to it. I also have their first version of this exhaust i know they revised it later on because John who used to work with them told me so, this might be why also only one of my exhaust tips has the logo.

OMG yea, that is a TERRIBLE design. The clamp is to CLAMP and retain, not meant to be a small joint pipe and take load. :lol:

Sounds like someone needs to invest in a header back and drop ap quick.

I agree, on the street it might be ok but at the track where the car is constantly under WOT and absorbing bumps this can become a huge problem like it did for me. Thanks for the link on the V band clamps :).

I purchased an invidia exhaust today and have a motiv concepts front high flow cat which works awesome, i was about to buy AP headers but decided to wait for another company to make some after seeing what happened to my exhaust and the way they stand behind their products.

I sold my GT-R with 24k miles and that car had a lot of track abuse on the HKS exhaust and not a single problem, i installed it my self as well.

We're just gonna have to build you an exhaust buddy!

Right on, sucks for the headaches and the unnecessary money spent, but looks like you have the situation under control.

If the pipes on the A.P. are short a few inches, you will need to weld on an extension pipe to close the gap in order to get the V-band collars close enough to clamp.

Single exit titanium would be soooooo good!! But ill take a good quality Stainless Steel single exit as well!! (The ricer inside me still likes fart cans). I have to say so far i am more than impressed with your high flow cat!! You guys should build a straight test pipe with a resonator. That would be awesome, its a nice compromise between noise reduction and performance increase. :bow: For now the invidia will get me out of trouble but i do want something better down the road. The exhaust selection from companies so far has not impressed me.

Vivid/AP have always had quality and customer service problems. Alot of subaru forums will not let them post/advertise due to poor quality service and parts.

Sorry to hear you are out the money for a poor quality exhaust. :(

Wow, that sucks! I can't believe they are using exhaust clamps. Is this an AutoZone sponsored exhaust system!?! :bellyroll:

I've also heard bad stuff about Vivid but I still keep them open as an option. I guess ft86club can be looked as a clean slate for them from me. I haven't bought anything from them yet but I'm keeping an eye on a few parts I have interest in. Time will tell if they gain this communities trust and my hard earn money.

I love my MXP but its a little heavy for a track car, durability shouldn't be an issue though. I love my Motiv stuff though when they release one I'm all over it.

Man i always heard bad stuff as well but always seem to had a great experiences with their sales guy billy. When my sales guy Billy left vivid my problems started, no more discounts or good customer service. I remember back when my wife bought me a v-box lap timer for x-mas, ups lost it and Billy shipped out a new one even before ups's insurance covered it now that was good customer service. I guess i never expected this from them but in a way i am happy it happened with a cheap exhaust and it did not happen for example when i bought the HKS exhaust for my GT-R which was expensive as hell, i was actually between the HKS and AP for my gt-r but went with hks.... glad i did.

Damn man! Good luck with the new exhaust. Invidia is a great company as well. They will stand behind their products. You know this is serious when I offer you the AP catback and cost and you say no :thumbdown:

Good luck with your track events as well :thumbsup:

LOL thanks for the offer Chirs!! But yeah i dont want anything to do with AP for now, unless they improve their products and get their heads out of their asses when it comes to customer service. Props to XTR Performance for taking care of their customers :party0030:

Agree with you completely. This is honestly the first issue we have seen with AP. :barf:

Appreciate the complement as always!

-Chris

AP=fail

Thanks Chris!! Ive got quite the track event list coming up: Texas world speedway, MSR houston, COTA and more harris hill!! I hope the invidia is up to the task :p

Theres a reason why they are banned from every major Subaru forum. Sorry for your bad experience with them. Hope people on these forums now see why they are such a bad company and quit bashing people who say negative things about them that are all true

I always heard the subaru stories and being a long time customer of them i foolishly ignored them. I hope people learn from others mistakes....... Now lets wait for vivid & ap to blame me on hitting something, or bad install, or that it got caught with something. :thumbdown:

Other vendors have a great example here of how not to treat your loyal customers, let this be a lesson to us all.

You sound like a big whiny baby. Buy a new muffer clamp to replace the leaker. And replace your canister flange with another clamp. Cost maybe 30$

You are either a complete idiot or a conformist if you think you should pay a good amount of money for an exhaust and have to be dealing with these types of problems and then also have their customer service suck and not willing to replace the exhaust. The exhaust ruined my diffuser, set me back every single time at the track, leaks in every single connection, its banged up and bent because it hit the floor so many times, and the welds are torn as well. Why should i have to pay 200 bucks at a good muffler shop to fix it, when it should have never been broken in the first place. Like i said money is not the object here i just purchased a new exhaust instead of sending this thing in, i even got a brand new AP catback offered by xtr performance at cost since Chris was compassionate about my misfortune with this exhaust, i declined the offer since i dont want to keep having these problems.

If you like to look the other way at the problem go ahead but im sure a lot of people would be pretty pissed if their exhaust system started falling apart after just 1500k miles. Like i said this stuff is just not supposed to happen.

Welds??? fix them with a clamp. Your shitty exhaust, came apart because it has shitty Chinese clamps that are already a shitty design. You Were 100% aware of this clamp design when you purchased the exhaust.

But what ever. Go do what you do.

I still can't believe that other guy bought this one instead of something else with this thread going on. Not sure why Epson is so hostile either?

Some people man, you would think they would be grateful for the advice and instead he calls me a whining baby. I didnt call him an idiot i said he could either be an idiot or conformist he chose the former when he said i called him an idiot. Nothing wrong with being a conformist, but those people should just keep their opinions to their selves.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o..._the_troll.jpg

we get the full darwinistic span here...

I guess they weren't kidding with the claim "Agency Power offers a LIFETIME Limited Warranty against defects or failures"

The emphasis was just on the wrong word, should've been on LIMITED :)

Limited as in "if your exhaust falls off due to our defective workmanship and it happens to hit the ground while moving, then all bets are off!"

Either way if it was a defective product or a bad install. If I were vivid/AP, and knowing the perception that people have of them on this forum. I would have just cross shipped a new one. The loss of potential customers way outweighs the cost of a new muffler. If the muffler is built in house the loss should just be the cost of the metal and a little time.

Just looking at the warranty description baffles me on there website,

I hope they can come in here and fill us in but this is what i'm getting. All AP products are intended for race use only but won't cover on track use?

Maybe they only cover street racing. Track racing is a no-no? :burnrubber:

I would typically agree, but apparently they will still be able to sell their product as long as there are those willing to blindly buy.

#SeeThreadStarted2HoursLater