BRZ STi NA 220-230 hp Rumors
 

Auto Express UK has updated rumours on the STi BRZ and postulates the NA engine will output between 220 and 230 hp
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/subaru/...bhp-subaru-brz

Hope it is changes in the internal of the engine, not some added on intake

Interesting level of detail. Seems "reasonable" and logical considering the overall previous message and direction from Subaru sources.

That said, I don't like that the article doesn't directly cite a source....(cough)

This might be no more than the author grabbing at straws interpreting the N-ring photos and guessing the STI is coming next spring.

Of course, it'd be nice if it was.

Rumors, rumors rumors.... One week its this thing, on week its another..
There are several rumors that back up this rumor tough. So who knows. Maybe we never will see a turbocharged BRZ (STI). But what about all the rumors about a turbocharged model... Back and forth.. :bonk:

20hp lol

On a car this weight, even 20hp isn't insubstantial. Assuming a weight of 2762 lbs, 20-30hp should be good to knock roughly 0.4-0.6 sec off the 0-60 mph time.

Rumor threads suck.

Considering people at Subaru have been quoted as saying they want an NA BRZ STI to make about 250hp via intake/tune/internals, 220-230 is still very believable.

I called this some time ago and will continue to believe the STI version will be about a 20hp bump, better tuned suspension, brakes, wheels, and some aero additions. I'm guessing it will run about $34-35k.

Crap! Raising the rev limiter means less torque.
Why can they place the turbo like AVO did?!
That "doesn"t fit" crap is retarded!

Oh please! 20 hp unless its at the wheels is crap!
You'll see a bunch of threads of people racing the STI version
Against the regular BRZ and having even races.
Big wheels, big wing, big brakes, body kit...
All this crap throws away the gained 20hp.

Just like the nismo version of the 370z, all the normal Z's
Outrun the Nismo.

For one, this is silly. So, 20hp is bad, but 20whp is ok? You realize that you're talking about a 6hp difference between those two numbers, right?

Add 20hp, subtract 150 lb in weight, equals awesome.

But let's be honest, this article is crap without sources. I refuse to click :)

No way the STi is gonna be lighter, lol.

why internals? they are forged from factory... actually fracture forged rods and billet drilled forged crank as well as we get super advanced Sodium filled vales in the FA20. to be honest from a mechanical stand point this engine is extremely advanced. and is strong as nails.

Alot of that article has the exact same sentences from the bullshit rumor articles .

I'll believe it when it's announced by Subaru

And the STI is rated to actually weigh LESS... soo with different weight, more power, and better wheel sizes, maybe 1 sec faster :iono:

That was the only thing that kept me coming back when the car was being tested. I would check twice - three times a day for nuggets like these.

http://i.imgur.com/Ukt3i.jpg

It builds hype

If it has 230+ hp and loses 125+ lbs.... plus the brakes aero and suspension tweaks it could be pretty good.

At first I was like: fuck!! I havent even got my regular BRZ yet.

Then I was like: cool, I'll just trade my BRZ in for the STi when it arrives.

Now I'm like: only if they don't make the BRZ STi like the new Legacy STi.

Subaru has a lot of face to save by putting out a kick butt STi version. I have a hard time seeing them come out with a shitter but you never know.

Hey look! A rumor with a source. Now we're talking. (Yes I know this is the Toyota and not STi.)

This would be ideal! But given the size & weight of modern cars, I don't see how Subaru can drop that much weight on a production car. It's a shame that the BRZ weighs as much as it does. I guess it's "relatively light" (by today's standards :thumbdown:).

To meet today's safety standards/expectations, sound expectations, comfort expectations the cars are just going to be heavier.

Imagine if Subaru/Toyota made a car that was super light? Two air bags, super cheap radio with 2 speakers, no sound deadening.

About 5% of their market would want to buy it. They make these types of cars in the UK and they are all expensive and rare. A true lightweight car from a major company that isn't expensive just ins't going to happen anymore.

Agreed. The 2011 Honda Civic Si I got rid of for my BRZ only weighed between 2800-2900lbs. Not much heavier than the BRZ.

I wonder what it is on the BRZ that accounts for the mere 100lbs less than the Si?

I think the miata is the only cheap car in our weight category...

then you get sesto elemento or what ever it is from lambo.... 2200 lbs with 3x as much hp as us lol... but that things like 2 mil...

I would not be interested in a normally aspirated version with more power. Nothing is free; any additional power is going to have to come at the expense of low-end. Since my car will be a daily driver, I will generally not be spinning it to 8000 on a regular basis.

I would conceptually be interested in a turbocharged version, but I'm almost certain there won't be one, and even if there is it will be priced in such a way that there'll be a lot more competition.

Please educate me. If they say, bore out the engine to 2.2-2.5L and do some internal work, plus intake/header/exhaust modifications, why will power gains have to be at the expense of the low end?

Who said anything about increasing displacement? Yes, a 2.5L version would be great - but none of the (admitted) rumors suggest more displacement, nor would it play well with CAFE.

The reason more power out of the existing engine requires a loss at the bottom is - there's a finite amount of torque you can get from a conventional IC piston engine. It's about 1.3 ft-lb per cubic inch; sometimes a little more, but 1.3 is a fair high-end approximation. The existing 122CI engine is almost exactly 1.3.

You can move it around, but you can't really increase it. VVT/VVL has done a lot in terms of increasing the RPM range where the peak can be maintained (the current Mustang V8 is a great example of this, as is the 'second peak' in the FA20), but it's not a miracle-worker. If 230HP is the target, it'll have to come at a higher RPM, which will require shifting the torque curve higher.

I had read some speculation about boring the engine out back during a different flurry of rumors which is why I mentioned it. I wasn't hanging my hat on that, I just used it as an example of a change.

Fair enough though, I was unaware of the ~1.3 ft-lb/i^3 rule of thumb. Good to know. It'll be interesting to see what Subaru decides to do and what tradeoffs they make as they increase power.

I think a NA 2.5 would be killer - that, I would go for. But I'm guessing in the interest of fuel economy it's not gonna happen.

There is a 2.5L version of this engine, isn't there? FB25, or something like that?

Unless something crazy happens the STi will be the heaviest of all the models.

230hp NA is almost perfect though. And even with the increased weight it will still be quicker.

I would also assume the car will cost around $32,000 USD.

Even with a raised HP, the increased in weight plays a factor in handling & braking. I'd rather have a modest bump in HP, but with less weight. But we all know that is not happening.

I hate all this Hybrid crap! they've better not put a fan motor in this car.

hehehehehehehehehehehe

They shouldn't call it an STI. maybe an RS? or did RS stand for Rally Sport?

Subaru needs to think of a better brand for a FR based performance car is what I am getting at. People associated STI with turbo, RS with rally. etc.

If Subaru does adopt a FA25 ill only accept it if it retains its 100hp/l at 250hp+

Otherwise an FA20 making 230hp@8000rpm while still retaining 30mpg and low co2 is fantastic.

Weight gains are expected but within reason. in the same token there is no reason the car should gain 200lbs of weight in non-performance areas.

For those worried about any sort of weight gains, remember the key is low CoG. Any weight gains will still be very diminished vs cars with higher CoM.

If anything, like i have said in the past. the FA20 needs an intelligent lift profile on the cams. The current AVCS does not have i-lift. Despite the high factory compression ratio, its not as high strung as initially predicted. Plenty of head room and improvements on the factory components can be seen already based on recent tuner experiences.

I hear ya,

STI and STi are not one in the same. So for people who are slightly ignorant of that only see STi as one entity, assocated with AWD, TURBO, BBK ect.

Subaru Impreza WRX STi ts sounds redundant until you realize that Tuning shop STi is a separate entity.

The BRZ should not be released as an STi, rather BRZ Ts. Considering it is tuning shop STi that is offering the BRZ variant, and not Subaru/FHI.

I agree, current hybrid technology would add more than 200 lbs (Comparing Camry to Camry Hybrid as a basis). Costly lighter systems start jacking up the price without sufficient gains. Screw CAFE, make a FI system available (as an accessory) for a reasonable price, I would be more interested in that.

I would almost expect that HP figure to appear across the board, not just in the STi. I suspect what will make it special is the appearance as well as the handling upgrades.

Unless I totally missed the this being an STi only HP bump part of the article.

*edit before someone gets mad at my "i"s being capitalized.*

so basically they're doing nothing more than bolt ons and a tune:bonk:. Not that exciting i'd rather get a base model and build my own "sti"

18inch wheel is unnecessary

Pretty standard thinking, id agree to do this as well if it wern't for a few points.

If you manage to get a BRZ for flatout 26k out the door, or used for 22-23k.

Spent an additional 2-3k on mods to equal the difference between the base and a STi in performance alone. you might still end up coming a bit short. Heres why, assuming you would be able to buy a BRZ STi for 33k out the door. (pricey i know) You would still get 18in wheels, suspension and brakes upgraded. An ECU adjustment with raised redline, 20-30hp more while still been economical and meeting emissions. A while being able to retain your warrenty and have a substantially larger resale value in 10 years vs base model.

Consider the following..Buy a used base BRZ at 23k
+$1200 on wheels and tires
+$600-1000 on aftermarket suspension
+$400-$3000 on BBK
+$300-$600 on ECU install and tune
+$400-$800 performance Exhaust
ect... you start to figure in that maybe just outright consolidating all that money you spent on mods to equal or greater than STi, into your monthly payments you'll be saving more money overall. Eyeballing probably well beyond 2k in savings alone if you just bought a BRZ STi. Not to mention install times or if you payed for the labor to get your BRZ to that level.

If the difference between the STi and Base model including all factory options is less than 5k MSRP, then the better value is the STi.

If the difference between the STi and Base model is more than 6k including factory options, it becomes more apparent that Subaru missed its mark, and is playing in price territories of real sports cars, and might fall short in the lower totem poll.

Basically the BRZ STi NEEDS to be priced between 29-30k MSRP to be considered a successful release. That is 2k more than Limited and 4-5k more than Base(premium).

That additional 5-6k premium from base will still get you;
Wheels + Tires
Suspension
BBK
ECU tune
20-30hp bump
Exhaust
Front and Rear under diffuser
Side Steps
Rear Spoiler
Warrenty
Resale Value
*limited options (Digital HVAC, Fogs, HID, etc..)
not to forget the possibilty of having STi badging on your seats, your gauge cluster, possibly a flexable strutbar.