Coil springs on OEM shocks
 

Can i install coil springs without change the shocks? I mean, do you think the OEM shocks can handle a more hard springs?

I know normally, i change the coil and the shocks but hte car will be brand new... brand new shocks...

I think this has been done a crazy amount on these cars. I have Tein lowering springs and they're stiffer than stock. Been running them for about 2k miles so far - no issues.

As far as durability goes- The typical problem is that the aftermarket springs go too low and it puts too much stress on the OEM damper by forcing it to ride deeper in it's travel than it was designed. If you're looking for a mild drop (1" or less) and a mildly stiffer spring, aftermarket springs should be fine.

The other issue that affects some cars more than others, is if the car has very little suspension travel to begin with. Using lowering springs often requires the use of different bump stops that are firmer and have a different ramp rate. This allows the suspension to still move correctly without riding on the OEM bump stops constantly.

Ok guys thanks a lot for the informations.

I will probably not going to drop under 1" and maybe change the damper to be safe if i change my coil springs.

I also want to be sure to do not improve the understeer. I want to drop de car a little bit and rigidify the suspension.

i hear that the shock can handle a little drop and stiffer springs. the only concern for me is the fact that you might later want to further upgrade so you are wasting time and money reinstalling suspension components and having to spend money on multiple alignments. keep the car stock for 20k miles. there is nothing wrong with the stock car. i always find it odd that people can spend 30k on a car and then not want to spend the extra grand to get decent suspension.

Good point you are right Fatoni, i just want to pick up some more informations.

I check to buy the Hotchkis springs, i think this is the best way to keep original setup of the suspension and put the car more lower and stifness.

STI Japan offers 15mm lower coil springs designed for the stock BRZ shocks. My car in my sig has them on.

I plan on getting the Hotchkis springs exactly for this reason.


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These are the springs I'm looking for, where were you able to locate them. Were they less than half the price of BC entry level coil springs.
Thank you for any information.:thumbup:

Let me know if you buy it, another opinion will be apreciate.

We have already a good review on this in the forum by the way.

The OEM shocks is supposed to resist :p ... am not cheap, i just want to do not change the brand new shock from this brand new car.

A good performance spring can actually work very well with a stock shocks and struts. To give the car more of a performance "feel," the OEMs will typically over-dampen the shocks/struts and go a little lighter on the spring rate. Aftermarket sport springs, like ours, are designed to bring the spring rates in line with the damping rates of the stock shocks/struts and deliver a very neutral handling car. The other key to using a performance spring on the stock shocks/struts is to keep as much suspension travel as possible and keep from over-compressing the shocks, which leads to increased wear and can cause premature failure. To do this, you want to make sure that you aren't lowering the car more than about 1" front and rear and that you either retain some sort of bump stop, whether you trim the factory piece or use a smaller aftermarket one.

Thanks Hotchkis for the detail, you just confirm we can run your springs whitout any problem to broke something.

2 questions :

Why did you do not give a new bump stop and you ask users to cut the OEM bump?
You have test it and it's working fine?

And, can you tell me if the car get more understeer feeling with you springs?

The OEM shocks are actually pretty decent. The old saying of "you have to upgrade shocks when you use lowering springs" is not always true. In this case, the OEM shocks can handle a decent amount of spring rate. A big drop as others have said will cause problems because there is not a lot of bump travel...anything over an inch or 25mm is too much in my opinion for optimal handling and ride quality. We stuck with a 20mm drop plus we include replacement shortened bumpstops with our RCE Yellow springs.

Below is a shock dyno test we ran on the OEM dampers.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...01415143_n.jpg

There is a lot to gain by going to Koni or Bilstein eventually (when they come out) but for most street drivers the OEM shocks will do the trick.

- Andrew

Those are great questions Mike. A cut OEM bump stop works just fine and there is really no need to go to an aftermarket part. We have performed rigorous track testing with our development vehicle to ensure the durability of our parts. In fact, we took our FR-S straight from the show floor of SEMA to the Global Time Attack Super Lap Battle at Buttonwillow earlier this month.

As for the understeer question, we designed the spring rates to deliver a neutral handling car. The FR-S's spring rates are designed for inherent oversteer while the BRZ is designed for inherent understeer. Our spring rates are 45% stiffer than stock and bridge the gap between the FR-S and BRZ. This is where our adjustable sway bars come in. The front bar has 2 adjustment settings while the rear has 4 settings. This will let you dial in the exact amount of over/understeer you prefer as well as match your roll stiffness to your tire sizes (squared or staggered) and stickiness.

Thanks a lot for this explanation, you help us to know the Hotchkis product.

I ordered them from japanparts.com. They cost about twice the price of other aftermarket springs and about half of entry level coilovers.

Yeah I saw where they are 127.00 per pair, but I'm sure that shipping and licensing will be high for exporting them.

http://www.hotchkis.net/press_release.html?ID=77

BALANCED HANDLING FOR THE FR-S/BRZ

Santa Fe Springs, CA – There is no denying that the Scion FR-S and the Subaru BRZ are the hottest cars of 2012. Lightweight, rear-wheel drive, a responsive chassis, and a low cost of entry make these cars a driver’s dream. Though the two cars are nearly identical, they differ in the tuning of their stock suspensions – the Scion exhibits inherent oversteer while the Subaru has pronounced understeer. In a perfect world these cars would not display either of these characteristics and would be perfectly balanced as they carve from corner to corner. Thankfully, the suspension wizards at Hotchkis Sport Suspension have just released their first in a line of products for the FR-S/BRZ aimed to bring out the true potential of these machines.

Hotchkis engineers spent hours on the track developing sport springs that were comfortable enough for the street but well tuned for track days or your favorite twisty road. These springs offer a mild 1-inch drop front and rear, giving the cars a more aggressive stance, lowering the vehicles’ center of gravity, while maintaining the necessary amount of suspension travel to not upset the already well balanced nature of the FT-86 platform. Increased spring rates, up 45% in the front to 185 lbs/in and up 25% in the rear to 265 lbs/in, reduce suspension bottoming and improve the vehicles’ overall balance.

Like all Hotchkis Performance suspension products, Scion FR-S and Subaru BRZ Sport Springs are manufactured in the USA, come with all necessary hardware, and are finished in durable powder coat. This bolt on upgrade can transform your FR-S/BRZ in a single afternoon and is a great first step in the quest to unlock the true potential of the FT-86 platform. Look for more FR-S and BRZ products to debut soon including adjustable front and rear sway bar kits, adjustable camber plates, and more.

All is in the balance and in the center of gravity.

But, i love car when he oversteer an little bit.

http://www.brz-parts.com/rce-brz-yellow.html

RACECOMP ENGINEERING YELLOW SPRINGS- 13+ SUBARU BRZ & SCION FR-S

Item #: rce-brz-yellow
Price: $349.00
Quantity:


Product Description
Racecomp Engineering Yellow Springs- 13+ Subaru BRZ & Scion FR-S

In keeping with the RCE Sport Yellow spring design these springs are stiffer than the stock WRX springs and will lower the vehicle. However they were designed to match the higher damping or the GTWorx Bilstein shocks, so only use these with Bilstein, or other appropriately valved shocks.

Racecomp say : " However they were designed to match the higher damping or the GTWorx Bilstein shocks, so only use these with Bilstein, or other appropriately valved shocks. "

I tried the lowered coils on one dampers and no issues as a daily driver, but much room for improvement is there for track use, if that's what you're after.

I'm looking to buy some Hotchkis coils and happened to find them here for $174.80 with free shipping.

http://www.customcarscentral.com/hot...FQSf4AodVGsA1Q

Anybody ever dealt with this place ?

That's the wrong price and description... that's for our WRX version.

Check our vendor thread or our own website.

EDIT: look here http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...71&postcount=1

- Andrew

Good to know thanks Andrew, this why it's important to check and verify where you buy your aftermarket pieces.

They actually come out to $166.06 after the 5% off for Black Friday sale. What a deal.


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Youll save more in the long run to just get coilovers

^^ I fail to see how that's true if you care about handling more than being low...

You need to spend about $2200 minimum to get quality coilovers, which is about double what a set of Koni yellows and quality springs will cost, or about quadruple what a quality set of springs (RCE Yellows, Sprint, etc) will cost.

$1000 coilovers will get you low, but they won't handle properly on anything but glass smooth pavement.

Agreed.

Not true iv rode in frs with bc and it was smooth. I was just stating that over time the original shcks will need to be changed

So, just like every other car then. Cool.


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The only way I see the need for coilovers is if your really serious about racing. Just so you can dial your dampening and ride height perfectly for how you drive. But a good set of springs with a good set of struts will be more than adequate for the weekend racer that also needs to drive their car all week.

will be getting the yellow for my FRS. when will you make a cupkit with struts shocks springs ? i love the kit you have for the 04 STI , buddy of mine has them they are soo good for track and off track.

We'll have a Koni Yellow + RCE Yellow package once they're out. :)

Eventually we'll have custom valved Bilsteins but that's a much longer process and I don't know when that will happen.

- Andrew

BCs do work well for many of the customers that are looking for them. We do get a lot of customers that have taken off their BC/Megan/Ksport/D2 etc. and want something higher quality but for many who just have to have coilovers at a low price they do the job for many of those customers. They are one size fits all damping/spring rate made to fit a variety of cars, which is how they get the cost so low and why handling is not ideal (because the shocks themselves and their valving is not designed specifically for the FRS/BRZ). Is there a handling improvement over stock? Well they are a lot stiffer so there is a lot to gain from just that and it "feels" different, but they do have their drawbacks.

BCs do wear out too...the pillowball mounts and the shocks. Yes you can can a replacement shock insert for 100 bucks or whatever and that gives you some ideas.

In my opinion a quality spring + shock package + a few bushings would be better all-around fun daily driver set-up. Durable, great ride quality, fun, fast, and easy to drive. As I've said the original shocks are pretty good and I expect them to last a long time with a drop of an inch or less. Konis or Bilsteins even longer (and both are rebuildable with real warranties).

Shocks and quality valving are really important and a good foundation for a suspension set-up, so I don't like to make sacrifices there for other features, like height adjustability if it's not really needed. The stock shocks are pretty good, and will work well and last long for a normal daily driver with a mild/medium drop lowering spring. It's a great inexpensive solution that I would not hesitate to run on my car.

- Andrew

Just because it rides smooth there's no direct correlation to how well it's going to handle. Old Buicks ride really smooth for an example.

What makes it handle well is proper valving AND adequate bump travel. A shorter bump stroke means higher spring rates which gives less traction. Hitting the bump stop on a street isn't always harsh, but on a track it transfers all the weight possible to that corner and makes a car handle funny.

Over time the original shocks will need to be changed in any car, even with stock springs. If you look at the replacement interval some shock manufacturers recommend, it's only 50k miles (80k km's). From what I've read, I doubt the lifespan of the stock shocks will be drastically reduced just by replacing the stock springs with a good quality spring. The harder driving that tends to come with replacing springs will probably wear them out faster than the springs themselves.

:bow:

Thank you guys to provide a lot of details and precisions about suspensions setup.

I will probably buy a good set of springs who lower not more then 1" and i'm going to be happy.:happyanim:

Now, Race Comp or Hotchkis??? Can you help me to make my choice :(

I need to be lowered and more stiffness and maybe i need to keep the oversteer possibility.

I think this kit is pretty cool with the rear camber adjustment : http://www.racecompengineering.com/i.../brz-lite.html

What's do you think?

Agree ^^^

Thanks Racecomp for the honest feedback on OEM shocks.

I looked for (for reference what it might equate to for future BRZ option) this on your site and couldn't find the Koni Yellow + RCE Yellow package for the STi cars. Did I possibly miss them on the site in the STi suspension parts listings?