h6 swapouts? any thoughts or advice?
 

was looking at some stories and videos of people who had swapped out their impreza/legacy/STI engines with h6 engines... would something like that be possible for the BRZ? think it would it be a better car, or just jack up the handling? how much does something like that cost, and is it hard to find someone who can be trusted for reliable work?

thx

probably. but if you decide to do this, be prepared to spend A LOT of money, and dont expect your car to be returned to you in a short amount of time.


the car hasnt even hit the market, so nobody except for toyo and suba engineers really know what the engine bay looks like...

Anything is possible for the right amount $$$$$$

You'd end up adding a bunch of weight in front of the front axle. So yes, the handling would be screwed. I hate to suggest this, but a turbo kit would be an easier/smarter/more viable solution for moar powah.

if thats what you want i would suggest saving time and money and just get a 911

The EZ30R (the R is important) and EZ36R both weigh ~50 lbs more than a DOHC EJ, so I doubt the handling would be effected all that much. The H6 engines aren't particularly expensive, you can find EZ30R's in the $1500 range if you look hard enough. Very few people bother swapping them into Imprezas, so there isn't a lot of demand driving up the price. The big downside is that the OEM H6 ECU has some sort of anti-theft feature that makes it a worthless brick, so you'll need to buy/install/tune a stand alone ECU.

If you have the tools and don't mind doing your own wiring/tuning, you could probably swap one in for < $3000. If you sell your stock motor, you might even come out ahead. Getting more than ~270 bhp out of one, though, is going to burn a crater in your wallet.

The 'R' means it doesn't have the absurd single exhaust port per head, correct?

Yes, you are correct. Although, in the EZ30D's defence, that single exhaust port makes custom headers super easy.:bonk:

Technically speaking, I think you'll find they are both EZ30D.

i hope this statment is true but with 12.5:1 comp ratio i don't know how viable boost will be on this car. :(

IMO, the 6-cylinders are a better option than the Turbos. You won't have to figure out where to put the turbo and deal with all the custom piping, and considering how far back the engine is in the FT86 chassis it should fit in there even better than they do in the Imprezas!

I wouldn't be surprised if we see one or two H6 swaps showing up next year, maybe at SEMA or another venue.
Ya, but one motor is so different than the other people just started calling it the EZ30R (along with how they called the cars 3.0R and such).

ECU, trans, diff...

I'm sure it will have LS3 swap in the future...

I will bet dollars to doughnuts that a turbo install will be way easier than any EZ swap, there are only a handful of impreza's running with legit setups. I've talked to Chris at EFI Logics who built one of the greatest track H6 imprezas and he told me that it would be more time, money, and issues; all for less power.

And if you goal is high power than the EZ's will submit defeat to the EJ's without a doubt.

There are only a handful because of how easy it is to swap the turbo motors instead. Plus, nobody has done the work on the H6 ECU's (well some have, but usually winds up being a stand alone setup) and its more complicated to fit the H6 into the Impreza engine bays as it takes a bit of work to get them to fit.

With the Toyobaru's drivetrain location being where it is, I don't see how the EJ turbo setup will fit as it currently exists. There won't be enough room behind the motor, and there won't be enough room under the motor. Its going to require some sort of custom turbo location, which is more difficult than making the H6 fit.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...n/img0887t.jpg

There's only a handful because the H6s don't make any power. Tuning them is easy, but they still finish up slow.

I reckon there's a good chance you might have to take back that last statement too ;-)

Rotated setup. If you are doubting space for a turbo but think the bay can accommodate an EZ your nuts.

how much longer is the EZ block than the FB or the FA or the EJ?

You can always lower the comp ratio w aftermarket rods & etc. :iono:

The EZ is only ~0.7 inches longer than the EJ (the EJ has belt driven cams, which adds length).

Based on bore pitch, I figure the EZ will be ~2.5 inches longer than the FA/FB. By extension, the EJ would be ~1.8 inches longer than the FA/FB. So if there isn't enough room for an EZ, there may very well not be enough room for an EJ either.

I'd be perfectly happy with 250-275hp from one of the H6's. I bet with the EZ36, the car would be semi-muscle-car-ish with its power delivery :p
It looks like the header goes a completely different direction than Subaru headers usually go:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ojen/wide1.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ojen/wide2.jpg
I'm HOPING they left room for the turbo in the usual location, but even a rotated setup might not have room if there is a space problem behind the block.

But if you look at that engine bay photo I posted, there is like a foot of space in front of the motor before you even hit the radiator, so there would be plenty of room for a longer motor (even though EZ's aren't that much bigger as stated).

thanks greg.

2.5 inches and ~50 lbs over the front axle, hmmm....that still sounds more reasonable than swapping in an EJ. for people that want a reliable power boost, they'll have to wait for the factory to come out with something IMO.

another option is to bump the displacement, thoughts anyone?

No, it looks same style and direction as my RS (kinda)

why would you put an H6 engine here when you can literally drop a WRX/STI engine in this car like a freaking lego toy?!

A turbo kit will cost you $5k plus if you pay for installation for people like
me that only know how to use a screw driver you'll spend $6.5k
for that much money you can install a WRX engine and EVEN save money vs turbo charging an engine that is not designed for turbos.

wouldn't you want to at least get some mileage out of the motor you payed for before swapping it out for a different one?

Here's a H6 ready for a test fit.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w...H6Turbo003.jpg

Looks yummy. But sure looks big.

Look again, the header goes OVER the crossmember not under it.

Plus, the exhaust ports are DIRECTLY over the crossmember, not in front of it, so the header is going to have to be squished a bit and go out the front before it turns to go to to the back of the car.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...n/engine-1.jpg


This is what you RS exhaust looks like:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...en/oilpan4.jpg
Because the H6 also fits in there like a Lego toy, and the rear mounted turbo setup on a WRX/STI engine might not fit due to firewall clearance.

Obvious answer: Some people like naturally aspirated engines.

Less obvious answer: The Impreza engine will drop in, but none of the turbo plumbing will. There's a good foot and a half behind the motor in an Impreza, this is where the up-pipe, downpipe and turbo live. There will be no such space in this car. The exhaust manifold from a 2010+ LGT is a potential option, but there's no guarantee that it will clear the FRS/BRZ subframe (in fact, it probably won't). Then there's the intercooler to consider, the stock Impreza unit isn't even remotely an option, so you're going to need a front mount and the requisite piping. Lets add all that up; You'll need to buy/fab new headers/up-pipe, down-pipe, intercooler, charge pipes, bumper beam, and almost certainly a high flow fuel pump. That all sounds to me like a turbo kit. And let's not forget that there has been no official release stating that the old Impreza ECU's will be plug and play with the new wiring harness, only vague references. So at this point it's still just wishful thinking. I agree that an EJ swap will probably be a better idea than a turbo kit on an FA if you're looking for huge HP, but don't expect it to be cheap/easy.

Factory fresh motors are worth more in trade. You'll be able to ask for more cash if you Ebay your motor with 10 miles on it than if it had ~30k. If someone is dead set on a mega-power build up, it would make sense to pull the motor sooner rather than later.

Huh, my bad. I didn't examine it closely.

FYI, mine don't look like that. Mine look like this :bellyroll:
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...0016_large.jpg

And mine looked like this for awhile :thumbup:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...derandcat1.jpg

Interesting setup. :wub:
How did it do?

Bout the same as any full exhaust, around +15hp. On the dyno, it showed about that much but with an intake too but that was in wheel hp of course.

That was a header from a JDM EJ20R Legacy, 4-1 header going to a 2.5" flange without a catalytic converter (the US model 4-1 headers have the catalytic converter right there). Only one on the country that I know of (imported via JDMparts.com), no idea what happened to it after I sold it though...

(sorry for the hijack btw)

how about a supercharger on either the h4 or h6 with the engine being lower and giving the probability of more hood clearance(or you can buy a hood with a scoop and be raised a bit if things don't clear easily, toyota has superchargers with built in air to water coolers in the manifold so you would do away with all the piping + better reliability, maybe it will have a secondary tune programmed into the ecu like the 00 - 07 corolla 1zz-fe engines where you can plug and play a supercharger and the ecu adjusts automatically...( im talking strictly about the corolla fyi i know modifications had to made to make the supercharger kit work on the celica/ poniac vibe)

Ya, HUGE amount of room in front of the engine for sure:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3..._r_900x600.jpg

Turbo would be the easiest option. Customize a 10'+ Legacy GT setup.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...ic-112786.html

Wow, looking at it in that sort of mindset, you're right. That engine bay is huge. It's reasonably long and very wide. I think we may see quite a few engine swaps in this car.

I'm concerned now that the motor might be too low for that turbo layout, and the headers might not clear the space between the subframe and engine.

I HIGHLY suspect the engine placement is a good reason why we haven't seen any news about a turbo motor yet.
Viper V10 swap? :iono:

:laughabove:

I really doubt it.

The Viper engine is 34" long vs ~18" for the FA, you'd have the throttle body sticking out of the hood.

An LS1 is a possibility (~27"). But for the Toyota faithful what may be more important is that the width should leave plenty of room for a DOHC V8, such as one of the UZ or UR engines. It should also allow stuff like the VQ37.

The OEM spec hood is too low for any big V to go into that car. Small front mounted super charger would be perfect for it, extra power gain without changing power delivery characteristics. 12.5:1 compression seems high until you consider that engine has direct injection. Just replace the direct engine fuel injectors to larger ones and disable the port fuel injectors. Custom ECU will be needed along with bigger fuel pump of course.

I think H-6 swap is completely viable. All H-6 engines are same as over-square 3.0 H-6 in outside width and length. Engine mounts can be fabbed easily from steel to arrange the location by a couple of inches forward and up. The biggest issue will be mounting the 6-speed transmission to Subaru engine that might have different bolt patterns and flywheel + sensors. So a viable option is to put in the original Subaru AWD transmission along with the engine and pull out the font drive shafts. Lots more work on transmission than the engine.

Never mind, it was their trans mount making the exhaust routing like that.

All that piping for a major case of turbo lag.