How To Properly Carve a Canyon
 

Check this out if you wanna see how it's done and what to use. Absolutely incredible. http://www.youtube.com/user/svronin

And these are the photos: http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=750477
:bow:

Impressive

personally.. i think he took it kinda easy

i used to run that canyon FREQUENTLY in my MR2. i don't know why he refers to it as "on the way to Spunky," because Spunky Cnyn Rd is off of Boquet Canyon Road, a few miles past the end of that road, and personally, the road he's on is MUCH better. spunky is too short and dare i say it, too tight/twisty. i wonder if he was running the same loop i used to run, lol. could run it around in circles, roughly 150 mile loop including all highway connections between canyons.

i would usually run that one in the opposite direction that he's driving it in the video, making it from the In-N-Out burger on the North end to the 7-11 on the South end in roughly 18-20 minutes. :D

and not to nitpick, but he's hardly using the car. also, i don't care for the amount of shuffle steering i'm seeing going on.

anyway, it's a GREAT road, and not as popular as some of the other SoCal roads. at least, not when i ran them, things might have changed since the last time i ran there.

-Mike

See how its done? Its a video showing off the road, if anything. He's not really pushing the car hard at all.

Awesome car and amazing road though! I'd love to check it out someday.

Just noticed that the car in the pictures and the car in the video aren't the same...

Unless he did a RHD conversion after shooting the video.

Both look LHD to me.

damn made me want to get that exige s i test drove few months ago, im still waiting for the FT86 :party0030:

You read my mind. From what I can tell he has never seen track time. One of the first things you learn is to keep your hand's in certain spots depending on how tight the turn is. This maintains consistency through the turns the next time you go around the track.

Ah, you guys found vids of my buddy Frank's car.

That Lotus is now twin charged with a MP62 roots, a huge turbo, and a nice A2W IC.

Actually, my IC build is an adaptation of his old manifold that he was kind enough to part with.

I don't recall exactly what his Lotus is putting down now (I think he recently went with a bigger turbo), but it's well over 400 to the tire if memory serves, with massive low end gunt given the twin charge set-up.

Frank's a cool guy -- head over to moremonkey.com to check out more vids and pics.

This stuff was on s2ki and someone there said he was putting down 500 or so.

it's a fantastic car, don't get me wrong. i just think it's being used improperly... and it's hard for me to tell, but does it seem to you guys like he's heel-toeing or just dragging the revs up with the clutch?

-Mike

no his not doing heel & toe, no commitment & no confidence on the turns tooooo scared to wreak his lotus but he pushes on straight area using all its got, watch the .52 to 58 sec of the video i wonder why he let off the throttle on that turn its a short right, left, right im pretty sure even a stock exige or elise can carry better speed on that area, classic sign of hesitation.

Huh -- I'll have to give him a ring and see what's new. Can't find a recent dyno. I know he picked up a whopping 120+ whp below 4K with the blower/turbo combo.

My poor car would just go sideways with that much torque :bellyroll:

But yeah -- that car is pretty much perfect.

i'd be babying that car too, a slight error and bam your lotus is no longer pretty, or worse with that canyon dropoff...

but yea after seeing that and this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuJEXp-EKso
i pretty much officially want to twincharge my future ft-86

I wouldn't baby it if I did a build like that. I'd baby it if it were a garage queen. If you're gonna 'build' a car, especially a lotus, then use it properly, or be forever scorned into the corner of 'posers'.

That aside, all this speculation, maybe he's never driven the road before? Granted there were a few moments in the video where its quite obvious he was taking it sleazy. But if it was his first trip down the canyon, yeah, I'd take it a bit easy too.

Log onto moremonkey and share your critique with the Ronin -- I'm sure you'll get an interesting response :bellyroll:

Love that car, for a second i was thinking it was the K20'ed Lotus that was in a couple canyon carving videos but im glad to see the original Toyota motor.

To me there is no better layout then MR. Thanks for posting!

ummmm, and how much is the tally? car+mods+patience/pain... when youve got 40-50k easy let me see you canyon carve it to the limit

My 'critique' was aimed at the message of babying that car. All I pointed out was, if you're gonna make it look like a real man's car, you might as well show that you can fill the boots, so to speak. I wasn't by any means calling Ronin a 'poser'. He took it to the canyon and had his fun with it. Thats more than most richie rich poser bitches can say about their expensive toys. Thats more than I've seen most of said people do, personally, having lived my HS/early college years around one of the richest areas in the U.S. They're everywhere around here.

@scape, its a matter of opinion, thats all. If i'm going to build a car to perform, I'm going to push it. Otherwise, whats the point of pioneering performance limits on a car? If I wanted to rub it with a terry cloth all day and try to get hoes to sit on my lap, I'd just strut around in factory trim and watch 'em flock. If I'm gonna build a car to perform, then I'm gonna put it on stage and see what it can do.

Frank's been building/playing with fast cars for a looong time... He used to hang around with guys like Ak Miller, driving around the desert in propane powered hot rods :D

He's not a pro-driver, nor claims to be, but he is a serious hardcore gearhead :party0030:

Like I said, shoot over to the moremonkey forum...

so in your case if you built this lotus you'd drive yourself off the cliff. let's be realistic here and stop the so called "critique" of yours.

Post one..

http://trollcats.com/wp-content/uplo...l_trollcat.jpg

Trippin, why don't you head back to your own forum :) and talk about OldSkoolToys some more over there... Lord knows you don't have anything better to do.

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/show...303959&page=11

.

hahahahha....whooptidoo. really it was an idiotic statement. so let me ask you something, are you going to push a 500 whp through the canyons when you dont have to?? yeah i dont think so. dont get your panties in a bunch there super man.

i think it's perfectly fine to not push hard through canyons. they're public roads, not racetracks.

that being said, the driver didn't appear to me to be heel-toeing, and for many of the corners, he was engine braking into them.

and i don't have a problem with shuffle steering when it's necessary (do not confuse shuffle steering with sawing). it is not necessary in that canyon. i would be AMAZED if that Lotus has a slower steering rack than my MR2, and i never had to regrip when driving that road.

-Mike

You have to be a freakin idiot with absoulty zero drivin skills..
I do the 12mi. stretch in that video in 8:26 min. hat's an average speed of 87 mph. Now tell me why I would I should be heal and toeing when the gearing is perfectly matched at my shift points and engine braking is the proper way to set up the next corner without upseting the car with heavy braking and scrubing off too much speed, not to mention the sand and blind corners that need to be taken with caution.....

You are an idiot that has no clue how to drive in the canyons, if you can say you never had to regrip the wheel while drivin that canyon you would need arms like Gumby on a hot summer day.....

You have no clue as to what you are talkin about.....:laughabove:

Uh-oh trust fund Tommy and his FF goons are coming to spoil the fun. What a joke :bonk:

IIRC, from 7-11 to In-N-Out is 18 or 19 miles. now, it's been a while since i've been out there, but i have a hard time believing the section you ran was a full 12 miles. that's beside the point.

so you're arguing that the proper way to downshift is to DRAG THE REVS UP WITH THE CLUTCH??? that's the most asinine thing i've ever heard. heel toeing has nothing to do with gear ratios. at all.

when using brakes properly (notice i never once said you should be threshold braking at every corner), the driver will not upset the car coming into a corner. i feel sorry for you if you are unable to use brakes without upsetting the car.

sand is definitely an issue, which again, is why i think it's fine not to push hard through a canyon. but to me, it seems like you're trying to make excuses for a lack of driving skill. sand has nothing to do with proper driving technique.

in my car i'm able to turn the wheel roughly 120 degrees in either direction before i need to regrip. that gives me a total of (if you do the math) 240 degrees of wheel angle before regripping. it looked like you maybe turned the wheel that far once or twice.

next time, try to put together a better post that defends what you're doing in the video instead of sitting there calling me names and contradicting yourself. you say you want to be cautious around blind corners and sand (i agree), but then you also say you "don't want to scrub off too much speed." seems to me like you don't know which side of the fence you want to be on.

-Mike

as far as the shuffle steering: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzRlGNP2OsA

they saw at the wheel a lot, but none of them feed the wheel through their hands like you were doing constantly in the video. the video you post of Rhys climbing Pike's Peak showed him feed the wheel when he was in high-angle slides, something you weren't doing in the video. and the video of Foust around the road course at what looked like Fontana was a pretty poor show of steering work.

-Mike

here's another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttHEgQftwtw

notice that his hands are nearly ALWAYS at 9 and 3 on the wheel, even when he's fully countersteering at 2:06.

-Mike

Here's the video again now what clutch draging to keep up the revs ? You don't have a clue as to what you're talkin about.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9NhmUmeDPU
There is a huge difference between scrubin of speed and mantaining a smooth corner entrance and momentium through the turn alowing for a fast and controble exit...as I said before you have no clue how to drive the canyons....
You say I have a lack of driving skill ? Take another look at the video and point out the times I cross the center line, better yet point out the times I don't cross the center line.....at speed..:search:...a measured 12 mi. in 8:26 87 mph average.....and that is the point. It takes skill to drive in control at speed....

Heal and toeing is used when braking and downshifting simultaneously (prior to entering a turn), and allows the driver to "blip" the throttle to raise the engine speed and smoothly engage the lower gear so that there is no momentery locking of the drive wheels which could upset the car as it enters the corner. It has everything to do with gear ratios matching drive wheel speed...:laughabove:... Now point out one time the rear wheels chirp due to improper downshifting....:search:

I never contradicted myself, you just don't know what you are talkin about and that's how people know it's you speakin like an idiot..
(denoting a person of low intelligence)..:happyanim:

responses in bold blue.

-Mike

wow, you have lots of money. great. another self righteous asshat with a larger checkbook than brain. those are some great looking cars that you claim to have driven. RS200, Stratos, Quattro Sport, and a Renault of some sort.

it's unfortunate that you felt like you had to be so confrontational instead of having an intelligent discussion. it hurts my neck stooping to your level.

-Mike

when you downshift, i hear no throttle blip. no blips at 0:18, 0:41, 1:08, i heard a slight blip at 1:23, hit the center line at 2:20, no blip at 2:53, 3:33, 3:54... it's unfortunate that your reading comprehension skills seem to be worse off than your driving skills.

The fact that you didn't hear it means nothing. The fact that the car does not react [gets upset] to the shift does..... I have syncros fool....

you have no idea how i drive. good job making assumptions though!!!

When you talk like a fool assumptions are all I have to go by..

what was "beside the point" was the distance of the section in the video. maybe what you don't understand is that i have driven that canyon nearly 100 times, in both directions, and my point was that i didn't think that section was 12 miles. if you have evidence to the contrary, i'll happily retract my statement.


Go to Google maps and mark it out, I've got a GPS in car that tells me so along with my odometer.....and I have no reason to bullshit anyone ..

i know what it is and how to do it properly while threshold braking, but thanks for trying. my MR2 doesn't have ABS, so i actually had to learn to prevent lockup myself.

That's great but what's that have to do with the discusion since my ABS was never engaged while braking...

you stated before that you had "the correct gears for the corners." that's fine, but explain how having the proper gears for the corners precludes you from needing to execute a proper heel-toe downshift coming up to the corner.

Again you don't know what you're talkin about....I do have a sycro gearbox you know...and one more time the rear tires never chirp on a downshift so you have no idea what the hell you're talkin about....turn up the volume..

you have no idea what i know, how smart i am, or anything about me. you're the one who joined this forum exclusively to come on here and call me names. that makes you an awesome human being.


Again you assume too much your lack of driving knowalge leads me to believe that you indeed are an idiot.....You are not the reason I joined this forum but it's a good thing I did so that guys will open their eyes and not believe all the crap they are feed by guys that don't have a freakin clue as to what they are talkin about......

if all it takes to have this AWESOME driving skill is the ability to keep the car between lines painted on the road, i'm surrounded by all of the world's most amazing drivers constantly when out on the road. oh, you didn't run into anything either? good job!!!

Now this is the one and only time you've said something correct.....

Stay in school....

that's nice. i'm done with this, i have better things to do with my time. enjoy your cars. i hope i never see you drive again.

-Mike

PS - according to google maps, the section you ran in the video was 8.6 miles. so you averaged closer to 63mph. and like i said before, from 7-11 to In-N-Out is just under 18 miles.

My d**k is bigger than yours. Enough said. /thread.

:laughabove: if all it takes to have this AWESOME driving skill is the ability to keep the car between lines painted on the road, i'm surrounded by all of the world's most amazing drivers constantly when out on the road. oh, you didn't run into anything either? good job!!!

My bad it's 11.5 on google maps... 83.5 mph average and still don't cross the line, have fun girls...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour...13032&t=h&z=13

Bye TOMMY!

:popcorn:

Good show!

Oh! This thread needs more pics!

http://www.forumspile.com/Penis-Cat.jpg

Cat pictures... what would an internet forum be without the sting of cat pictures? :lol:

Anyway, from about 00:45 on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9NhmUmeDPU you guys really consider that "babying"???

Is it considered "babying" until the car goes sideways or something? Then again I'm only a softcore car enthusiast... :lol: