Mini NSX
 

Hmmm... I didn't see this posted anywhere, but figured I bring this to light over here.

If only it were offered in rwd. I'd like a new mr2 basically. Unless Toyota follows through on theirs

Looks great but awd and the price kind of a turn off.

Don't like the looks.

I think I'd have a VERY hard time spending upwards of $50,000 on a Honda... just sayin.

It will be an Acura. :bellyroll:

If it gets the J35, it would make for a hell of a car... 6 speed please!

It was talked about a while back but no renderings were posted.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...ighlight=Acura

I really hope they don't replicate a smaller version that looks just like the NSX. That would ruin the NSX as a whole. Make a smaller version with a completely different exterior with a completely different name.

$60k for a K20/24... I think not.

This could be really cool if it turns into a sorta upscale MR2 (with good styling PLEASE), but as JDMenrique wrote, if it's high dollar for a K20/K24, do not want. Or even a J35. Please do not use an engine plucked from an Accord.

At that price, a (very) high rev low displacement V6 would be pretty neat. Smooth but racy and great sound.

I hope Honda does something soon. They seem to be turning into the Toyota of the 2000's.

Looks cool. Should be RWD.

And when did Honda start making Mazdas? That Honda Concept looks like a Mazda concept..

there's gotta be room for improvement from the factory for the accord's v6. i think it is very conservatively tuned because it is in fwd duty now (much like nissans VQ is tuned down to about 270hp in their fwd altima vs 300+ in the Z's).

Of course there's room, but that's not the point. The point is that a big heavy low rev engine is not exciting, and a sports car needs to be exciting to make up for the "lack of value". The J35 has a 93mm stroke, so it's not going to be much good above 7000rpm no matter what you do to it.

The VQ37VHR is not just a VQ35DE in a higher state of tune. It's newer (newer combustion chamber design), has VVEL (huge benefit), and has higher compression ratio and higher displacement. Take those into account and you realize the VQ37 isn't all that tuned up.

For a mid-upper tier sports car Honda should be looking into either something like a new F20C or a 2-2.5L V6 that revs just as high. If the lowly Civic can get an 8000rpm capable K20, they should be able to do this. All they need to do is bring together the best of the engines they've made before: 3 stage VTEC, high compression ratio, the new direct injection systems, new variable speed oil and water pump, shortish stroke in the 80-85mm range + nice long forged rods, and it'll have silly power, great sound (NSX revving up = pure race car), great fuel economy. And torque is for old people driving Mercedes Benz, gtfo.

I would even argue that a small displacement (2.5l-3.5l) V8 would do the trick. The key is to keep the stroke of an engine at a relatively low level. Back in the 60's, Ford created the Windsor 302 (102mm bore and 76.2mm stroke). The thing was a beauty, and I'm surprised that they replaced it with the Modular V8 lineup. Those engines could create 400+ NA horsepower easily and could sit at 6,000rpm all day long. If Honda can create a similar, yet smaller, powerplant for this car, they should be fine.

"Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races." Enzo Ferrari

But Honda has never made a V8 :bellyroll:

Right, short stroke is the key, although it doesn't have to be that short. The F20C had an 84mm stroke, 90mm bore. The 2ZZ-GE was 85mm stroke, 82mm bore. If Honda does a square 81mm V6, that would land them at 2.34L displacement. The F20C lost a lot of torque above its power peak, I'm guessing because the stroke was pushing the mean piston speeds to the limit, so with 81mm stroke it could make slightly better power over 8000rpm. With direct injection, 3 stage vtec, 12.5-13.0 compression ratio, Honda should be able to get 290hp out of such a monster. Their new multiple speed oil and water pumps (long overdue in the automotive world really) should gain back the horses lost to emissions equipment.

In an ultralight car, it could definitely be competitive, if they can maintain original NSX weight it'll be almost as fast as a Cayman S. If they can't drop the curb weight down, there's always the option of increasing the bore a bit to get more power. I'm just describing my dream car toned down a little :D (I'd prefer even smaller displacement and lighter, sorta like my current car except 4 pots aren't as cool)

I know, and it's incredibly disappointing.

The description is spot-on (as far as V6 ideas go). I would expand on your idea and urge Honda to borrow some from Ford's Ecoboost division. I small twin-turbo setup will really pump out the horsepower, keep torque in the respectable range throughout the power curve, and allow for some epic gas mileage.

From the sounds of it, you are proposing some great ideas.

Boost is definitely a good idea, I just wonder what Honda is thinking because they are very reluctant to use boost. Toyota is similar but they at least have special editions of cars with superchargers and stuff. I suppose it does cost more money to boost an engine. Boost allows a "dual efficiency band" so the gears can be longer for the street.

Maybe they'll give us a pleasant surprise with a variable drive supercharger :)

I have to seriously disagree with you on this one. You probably enjoy revving to 6-8k rpms at every stoplight but not everybody likes that crap. I love a "flexible" engine and I love how the VQ37VHR makes great power in the low-mid-high rpm powerband. Show me a 4 banger N/A that can achieve all of that? NONE!!!

Nah dude, my engine is off at the stoplights :P I rev to 3.5k, and my engine only hits 6700rpm. It's a turd.

I understand what you mean though. I do think the VQ37VHR is a great engine for what it is, it's got a great powerband thanks to the VVEL, and more manufacturers need to get off their asses and work harder. However I think that chasing torque via high displacement is for trucks and SUVs and vans, not sports cars. When Nissan makes a VQ25VHR with VVEL let me know.

My car turns 3600rpm at 65mph, so I understand why "passing power" is appealing. It's sometimes nice to just mash the throttle and go, and never shift on the highway. Maybe the novelty hasn't worn off yet, but I've been driving it for about 3 months and I still feel that shifting gears is an important part of the driving experience. You can never have enough torque, there is always less power in top gear than the next gear down. Some of the older 4 bangers like the 4ag, 3s, etc. have crappy powerbands, but 2ZZs and K20s and F20Cs with lift have great specific torque everywhere, how much power you have is dictated by how many gears you drop down.

On a torquey engine that loses a huge chunk of its torque by redline, your power output increases more slowly with the revs because the torque drops. Where's the fun in that?

EDIT: I will concede that boost for torque is a good thing, because you can only put so many gears into the car, and boost essentially gives you an extra set of gears. But gigantic displacement naturally aspirated engines that make low specific power by virtue of lack of technological features are sin.

By the way, 2.4L is not even that bad for torque, a base Cayman is only 2.65L or something. I understand that 2L in a 26-2700lb car might be a little anemic if you're not winding it out, but 2.4L is not that bad in a light car.

Honda did make a V8 a long time ago. ;)

I honestly believe Honda can make a much better (fun sports) car to the likes of the GTR and even the LFA but don't seem too motivated.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9...t3qlo1_400.jpg

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/mugenv8.html

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=319284

They may have made a V8, but it didn't make it in to any of their automobiles. Fail!

i shoudve been a little clearer in that i was refering to the time when the VQ35DE was put in altimas and 350z's (along with a handful of other models) in the same years but they had different hp ratings. my point is that if honda decides to make this car, it will share a motor with something. a newly designed v8 is a pipe dream, as is a low displacement v6 because it wouldnt have much else to go into. j35 turned sideways, dropped into a little coupe and tuned to 300hp+ would be tits imho

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2986167

And that's where our opinions differ. If it's going to cost north of 40k, it better have a spiced up motor. At 35k or something if they want to build a Z competitor with a J35, okay... but it's still a minivan motor at the end of the day. Like I said, 93mm stroke is pretty hopeless.

At these price levels, I think most people want to buy something special with emotional appeal, and wouldn't mind paying more for that. Affordable is already out of the question. Why buy a Honda with a J35 when you can get a Porsche Cayman that happily hits 8000rpm? (okay the new Cayman hasn't been announced yet but the new Boxster does 7800rpm) And why buy a Honda with a J35 at 30k when there's a 370Z with pretty much exactly the same specs at that price point already? The VQ37 is more rev happy than the J35 can hope to be anyways.

Honda has done some crazy stuff before. F20C and C30A/C32B were very limited run engines, and the cars they came in commanded a premium for that. Better to charge more for something different than make something that is essentially a copy of a competitor.

If Hyundai can spit out new engines every year, I think Honda or Toyota can spare the cash to do a couple of new engines, but my anti-profit-maximization thinking would get me shot if I worked for them :P

Just how people are having trouble spending $90k on a Nissan. You're not in the right audience. :)

I can attest to this. I'm amazed at how fast the 7spd auto shifts in the 370Z. The BRZ automatic looks slower while revving than the Z automatic. I wonder if its because of the aggressively geared ratios.

haha this^ . for example, very similar versions of Kia's/hyundai's lambda 3.8 v6 were/are thrown into about 10 different vehicles so it wasnt a small production run. i think they used the same block with the same stroke in their 3.5 lambda (with a smaller bore obviously) so there is potential for lots of the same parts to be made

I disagree. I like it. I'm assuming that the production version would be toned down a bit. For example, it would probably lose a little if its wide hips there in the back.

Yea, me too, unless it was the new HondaJet. Still I'm guessing it would be a quality build, and to put it in prospective that's about the price of two new Goldwings, so Honda does like to put a premium on things.

Yea, 'cause that makes all the difference. Surprised its not $75K with an Acura tag on it.

Toyota will beat them to it with the next MR2. But first, as we all know from Mr. Tada-San, the Supra is next in line ;)

MR2 will ride on the success of the FR-S and New Supra.

serial mentioned that Honda never made a V8. I'm just saying that they did regardless if it ever made it into a production vehicle. Honda can build some serious shit even better than Toyota (flame suit on). :D

I agree. But is long as they keep making boring cars and only fancy concepts or supercars. It does not matter what they can build or draw. Its what they make that counts! Honda needs to learn that. Or else all their good history will slowly fade away and be forgotten...

They are too busy developing private jet.

But what good is it if it's never utilized?

Just throw this thing in there:

http://i49.tinypic.com/2hf1hkp.jpg

Or the 3.7 HPD used here:

Well, that's what people are hoping at least :rolleyes: Toyota isn't exactly offering more than Honda is right now, their "sporty offering" in compact cars is the 2AR-FE, the same way Honda's "sporty offering" is the K24. Honda at least made K20s until a year ago, Toyota stopped making 2ZZ-GEs long before then.

Yea I don't think that one counts :P
But yes Honda can build some serious shit, it is pretty crazy how many K20s they built, and the F20C/C30A/C32B are well, serious shit :D

I guess Toyota did do the 1LR though :P

No stick and three pedals = dealbreaker. Also, the AWD system had better be as good as the R8's... No oversteer = another dealbreaker.

Hopefully the upcoming RX-7 and 240Z don't make these mistakes.

I know tell me about it! It's like meeting a hot chick, bringing her back to your place and then she tells you she just wants to cuddle. :bonk: :mad0259:


Honda has turned into the Toyota of the 2000's. :sigh:

Seems like most manufacturers are loosing some of their earlier strengths and adapting to the mass market. More profit there it seems. Car enthusiasts are not worth that much.
Nice to see that one manufacturer sees an opportunity and starts making some decent sport cars again (Toyota). So far its seems like worldwide sales have been way higher than expected, so that is a good thing.

But im skeptical that Honda will jump on that wagon. They will probably be happy with future NSX and future Civic Type R.
Hopefully a more affordable RWD baby NSX will be made, but until it sees the light, im skeptical.

Infact the last exige to roll off the line with a 2zz-ge was given to toyota as a "thanks" for the long partnership. so production stopped this year for the 2zz-ge.
The 2zz-ge was initially a test run for MMC cylinder wall coating. A tech that was tested in the 2zz-ge for approval in the LFA :D Wish i could find the article about it!
its a coating that reduced the friction of the engine so it can rev faster, and MMC is usually but not al the time lighter :D

Metal matrix composite. I think they used it on the 2ZZ so they could port the shit out of the head and not need press in valve seats that would take up space.