Perrin Transmission Support & Whiteline Gearbox Positive Shift Kit
 

So,
Perrin Transmission Support [PSPDRV160]
http://www.perrinperformance.com/brz...mission-stiffy

Whiteline Gearbox Positive Shift Kit Bushing [KDT926]
http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_..._number=KDT926


1) Which is better?
2) Which would you do first?
3) Are they compatible? (would you do them both?)
4) Do they do the same thing in a different way?

cheers,
Jehu

i think both companies are lazy and i'm waiting for one that would just make a caged unit like the beatrush stuff for the subarus

Disclaimer, these are my opinions
1) I haven't tried the Perrin (yet), but I do have the Whiteline. Looking at the design and imagining how they work, I think the Whiteline is better if you must choose between the two
2) Whiteline for sure. The Perrin alone appears* to replace the silver piece in the picture, which fills in the lateral space between the pointed parts of the Rear No.1 Engine Mounting Insulator. If the Whiteline (yellow) wasn't there, then to me, the Perrin looks reduces rotational flexing. The insulator itself is fairly soft materials so the Whiteline here reduces that rotational flexing and vertical compression by filling in all that empty space. Both do their part to add mass to dampen vibrations which I believe is their primary intent. The Perrin being made of aluminium may add more mass than the urethane in the Whiteline.
3) I think they are mechanically compatible. I will know by the end of the weekend as the part is coming in. Would I do them both? won't know until it happens
4) Yes.



Stock Rear No 1 Engine Mounting Insulator. Whiteline fills in gap. Perrin replaces the metal piece and shank. The inward angle vertical walls are soft rubber
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8327/8...17480f5c_c.jpg
20121012-WhitelinePositiveShiftKit_DIY-01 by VictorN07, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8044/8...d7319fa0_c.jpg
20121012-WhitelinePositiveShiftKit_DIY16 by VictorN07, on Flickr

Looks like they will work together. That would be a great combination if so. Bump for someone that knows more than me to confirm.

Rather than get these two together, I'd get the Whiteline Positive Shift Kit (which I actually do have currently on my car) and get the Perrin Rear Shifter Bushing along with it: http://www.perrinperformance.com/p/2175

I think those two together would give you a better benefit than these two things which appear to do the same thing (if they can even work together at all, that is).

perrin mentioned there is a possibility the urethane will squeak after a while. is that true? i know they make urethane parts so they could've made this part urethane as well but chose not to. could that be the reason?

That's spot on. Any bushings, bearings, and inserts will squeak over time. This is why it is important to apply grease to the surface when installing them, and periodically checking and regreasing as required. Mind y'all that we are talking about a few years, not every few months. If the Perrin doesn't require greasing, then for the set and forget it lot, that would be the better option.

could they be used together for improved stability? or would it make it too stiff to be comfortable

I went the route Foobar described above. I'm installing this weekend and I'll add my review here.

Agree both of those is a very good route. Sharpens things up a bit in the gearbox but I just found there is still room for improvement.

btw i wouldn't do this mod without engine mounts

you need to stiffen both, otherwise you're creating a hard point at the transmission while the engine remains soft, causing stress all over the place.

Yup. I was going to get the perrin engine mounts as well and put them all in at once. Laying the foundation for some more power once the warranty expires. :thumbup:

Thanks for all your answers.

Wootwoot, I didn't think Perrin had released engine mounts yet for the FA20?

Cusco kinda went the middle route on theirs, didn't they? Big washer to stiffen the void.... Sleeve and metal bracket to stiffen that silver bolt/plate.

just ordered prototype motor mounts...

The Perrin unit is aluminum. There will inevitably be more NVH associated with that; though these pieces appear to be doing two different things I'm not not mistaken or at the very least appear to accomplish the same thing through different routes.

As far as grease goes...it's part of the game with poly bushings. That said, there's better greases out there than what comes packaged with them. Energy Suspension white stuff comes to mind. A bottle will last you several cars.

I had some time to see if the @PERRIN Transmission Stiffener works with the Whiteline Positive Shift Kit. I word it that way simply because I purchased the Whiteline first.

The below two pictures show is the OEM insulator with the metal slug. The insulator is just two metal plates that sandwich angled soft rubber. Emphasis on soft; the rubber twists and compresses with ease. The metal slug is designed to slightly compress and join the top and bottom metal plates.

However the metal slugs inner diameter (ID) is smaller than the insulator's ID. In additional the rectangle head is much smaller than the space it occupies. For those who installed the Cusco or Whiteline bushing, you might have noticed the slug wanting to rotate while torquing the nut that holds it in place. Therefore there is some lateral play in the insulator under compression. The advantage is comfort and ride compliance. The disadvantage is that the engine wastes energy to compensate for this flex when sending power to the rear wheels.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8486/8...b3367b91_c.jpg
20121103-PerrinTrannyStiffyTestPublic-02 by VictorN07, on Flickr


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7114/8...38d82477_c.jpg
20121103-PerrinTrannyStiffyTestPublic-03 by VictorN07, on Flickr


The Perrin Transmission Stiffener (below) does the same job as the OEM metal slug however better. It is made out of aluminium: there is more mass to the Perrin so it acts as a better vibration dampener. It fits the ID of the insulator perfectly, to reduce lateral flex. Last the rectangle head is machined to fill in the valley in the insulator's upper metal plate. This would help reduce any twisting motion in the insulator. Ultimately it does a better job at reducing the play, compression, and vibrations that rob your drivetrain of forward motion power.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7249/8...3566f450_c.jpg
20121102-PerrinTransmissionStiffener-1 by VictorN07, on Flickr



The question on everyone's mind: Does this product work with the Whiteline positive shift kit. The answer is simply, not at this time.

The picture below shows the insulator with the Whiteline bushing and the metal slug removed. Take notice that the Whiteline ID is bored exactly to the metal slug. This eliminates any lateral movement in the slug but doesn't help with the twisting inherent with the smaller rectangular head.

The Perrin is designed to sit flush in the insulator and join the two metal plates. The Whiteline prevents this. You can modify one of the products so they work together. I personally would modify the Whiteline because it is easier to cut urethane than to grind away aluminium. Will one of the two vendors modify their products? That's up to them to decide and they will surely announce any modifications if they do. I would not be surprised if they choose not to.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8348/8...5dd09995_c.jpg
20121103-PerrinTrannyStiffyTestPublic-01 by VictorN07, on Flickr





Which is better overall? I won't say. I did not test them together from the above, or test the Perrin by itself. I left the Whiteline in there simply because its a pain to insert and remove that bushing. It wasn't because I favored one company over the other. Here are some of my thoughts in effort to remain objective

+ The Whiteline fills in the entire gap between the metal plates in the insulator. The Perrin doesn't, so I think the Whiteline would be better at handling side to side movement
+ However, most of the movement will be vertical. With respect to compression, I think the Perrin will do a much better job because of the materials used. While urethane is hard, it can still compress. It would take much more to compress the aluminium and steel used in the Perrin. I believe the Perrin would be more efficient in power transfer.
+ The Whiteline being made of urethane does require periodic greasing to eliminate squeaking. The Perrin does not require any greasing so it is definitely less maintenance in the long run.
+ I do believe it would be worth it to combine these products simply to add a bit more vibration dampening mass.

I truly believe both will do a great job at its advertised purpose. Both products are backed by vendors with long histories and experience with Subaru platforms. It just comes down to personal preference. Let's discuss!

@F1point4....

What do you think of the Cusco?

It seems the Cusco (from photos I've seen) has a small bracket that goes around the top of the metal slug. It also has a metal sleeve for the slug as well as a plate to help reduce space to compress the 2 metal plates.

Again, I could be wrong as I've only seen the photos. Hopefully you can give me your opinion on this...

Please note I don't have any real world experience with this product. I'm only basing my thoughts based on the visuals provided by my mate @stevo_12v I think he'll chime on some of these comments and give some thoughts about his experience.

So the Cusco appears to come in three pieces and is made from aluminium. Like the Perrin this has better vibration dampening properties than urethane.

It seems like a hybrid approach between the Whiteline and Perrin. There is a plate that mates both top and bottom plate similar to the Whiteline. The silver piece slots under the metal slug to keep it from twisting in place. The tall blue cylinder seems to have bored to fit perfectly in the insulator like Perrin and slots in the larger blue plate. The only thing it doesn't seem like it does is fill in the pointed gaps. It is the most money out of the lot as well coming in around 55-60 dollars.

Here are some of my concerns. The metal piece to keep the slug from twisting does take away some threads that the nut can secure onto. Being made of aluminium it contributes to more NVH than urethane. This probably adds the most NVH in the lot due to its size and mass. I can't quantify because I don't have the means to measure and my star specs and exhaust are loud enough to cover it up. Instructions for Cusco probably don't say to grease the surfaces, which is expected. With that, it is logical that surface erosion can happen due to metal to metal contact. It shouldn't be a big deal. The Perrin and Cusco should last the lifetime of the vehicle.



I can't say for sure, but I will wager the large blue plate and the Perrin would work together.

Stiffy "T" Top and CUSCO flat washer.. Hmmmmm
 

Hmmm I do believe that the Perrin Stiffy kit will probably go together with the CUSCO. Hmmm to buy or not to buy, lol. Depends if the black PERRIN part is either full aluminium or a combo of a threaded core with urethane outside.

Actually, now that I think about it, I probably will order one, as the cylinder and the washer in the CUSCO seem to rattle at idle/very low speed in 1st gear.

I wouldn't go with the KDT926 and the Stiffy though, unless you really love feeling every little bump on the road. The KDT926 I feel is thicker than it has to be.

Also the CUSCO you do not get supplied with any LUBE, but you can always use the lube supplied with the Perrin rear shift kit if you are doing that combo. For the moment I'm quite happy with the CUSCO/Perrin Rear shift kit.

I'll be on the look-out for this 'stiffy' kit though.

The Perrin part is fully aluminum without urethane.

Can someone describe what needs to be done to the whiteline bushing to make it compatible with the perrin product? It looks like you just need to make the the hole in the middle of the whiteline bushing slightly larger. A drill and a proper sized drill bit would make quick work of it I think.

That's it. You just have to make the hole in the whiteline the same diameter as the hole in the insulator.

Sweet. I'm doing both. Thanks.

Thanks guys...

Now decisions, decisions, decisions....

I already have the Perrin shifter bushing, but didn't install yet. I was waiting to do a few things in one shot.

Even with my dealer discount on Cusco, the part is still about $60 shipped. And the store I get the parts from didn't get the Perrin or Whiteline part yet.

Going with your opinions, I may go with the Cusco. Noise I don't mind as much as vibration. The exhaust I get will probably be louder, lol. Also not having to lube every so often is a plus.

I'm already doing a SWP and blue on my BRZ, so might as well keep with it.

I have the cusco on my car and I love it. Best mod Ive done so far and yes you will pick up some slight noise and vibrations.

Here are some fun pics of the @PERRIN transmission stiffener

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8343/8...f7c5182f_c.jpg
20121111-PerrinPressShot_GearboxStiffy-01 by VictorN07, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8486/8...3cee0c85_c.jpg
20121111-PerrinPressShot_GearboxStiffy-02 by VictorN07, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8200/8...8545d70a_c.jpg
20121111-PerrinPressShot_GearboxStiffy-03 by VictorN07, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8198/8...70b1b9b5_c.jpg
20121111-PerrinPressShot_GearboxStiffy-04 by VictorN07, on Flickr

Ft86 speed factory sells them as a pkg so I would assume they work together.

CUSCO/PERRIN hybrid.
 

Did the install today(still yet to drive it - have to install exhaust tonight).

http://i48.tinypic.com/e1b7ky.jpg

The cradle assembly feels DAMN tight!

Good one!!

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

Great thread. Tons o' good info in here. Thanks guys.

anyone use both the whitelien bushing and the perrin mount support together? Im interested in hearing other peoples results besides my own...

Yes. They work well together. See pic in attached thread

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=10

Let me see if I understand everything here. The stock piece allows movement, only to the limits of what the slug will allow. Or until the top and bottom plates rotate enough to cause contact between them. Hence the differences in the ID of the top plate and the OD of the slug. One thing I'm not sure about, is there rubber on the top and bottom of the top plate?

The Perrin piece compresses the bottom piece to the point of metal on metal contact to prevent all motion.

The Whiteline piece fills in the bottom with a compressible part that will allow motion, but
dampen and reduce the motion.

The Cusco piece also closes the gaps to the point metal on metal contact, to prevent all motion.

If I'm understanding these correctly, I would not use a part that removes all motion from one of three engine/transmission mounts. That seems like a great way to break off a transmission mount. If you went to all solid mounts maybe, but even then I think you'd be running a large risk of breaking things. Not to mention the NVH.

So, am I understanding these correctly?

I believe the Perrin trans mount limits the ability of the top plate to rotate over the lower, holding the trans housing from moving longitudinally. The Whiteline unit limits the trans from winding/twisting vertically IMHO. The combo doesn't take out all the motion, just most. Coupled with Perrin's shifter bushing, shifts are smooth, and I don't notice any NVH. We'll see how long it lasts and stays quiet.

Another fellow Aussie has the KD 926/Perrin Stiffy combo in his car.

I'm running the CUSCO/Perrin Stiffy combo myself - less vibration but slightly more noise.

this is how mine sounds. This is the whiteline bushing with the perrin mount support and the rear bushing as well....

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW6CHGpaRfw"]Scion FR-S Gear Whine - YouTube[/ame]

Yep, that's it. It sounds quite ok, but sometimes I miss the somewhat quiet transmission and sometimes i quite like it. I think I might have to take the Perrin transmission out. I will see how it goes.

My setup is not nearly as loud. Can't figure out why.

People thinking that aluminum is going to dampen vibrations better than an elastomer are a bit clueless. Aluminum is going to TRANSFER all of the vibration directly to the chassis. Half the reason the rubber is there in the stock setup is to dampen vibrations so that the car stays reasonably quiet.

Think about the grips on a high revving dirt bike. If you were riding with bare hands (not recommended), would you want all metal in the grips or a rubber layer? Soft elastomeric materials are vibration's enemy. It's why sound deadening materials are usually a constrained viscoelastic material such as butyl rubber. The vibrations go into the rubber and expend all of their energy making the long stringy soft rubber molecules vibrate just a little bit (turning the vibration energy into heat).

Yes, Aluminum is stiff. But unless it's an inordinately large chunk, it's going to ring like a bell when vibrations are applied to it. When it comes to metals, density is more important than total mass. A soft chunk of lead will vibrate 100x less than the same size chunk of aluminum. In fact, mass loaded vinyl rubber is one of the most used sound deadening materials in the world and it's basically a sheet of rubber with really tiny lead shot embedded in it.

Nathan